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Weeping and gnashing of teeth

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 08:35 am
So I remember this exact feeling from 2000. It's the feeling I get when I open up Yahoo, NYT, and look for news that could hurt Bush/ help his opponent, and remember that it's too late. That if there is new information about how badly Iraq is going or something mindboggling that Bush said, it won't translate to poll numbers or have an effect on the election -- over, done with. Too late.

I really hope that the media continues its more robust reportage -- will "Search for Missing Explosives Continues" get as much attention as "Kerry Questions Bush Administration's Competence as Search for Missing Explosives Continues"?

Kerry has vowed to continue to fight, I wonder what he'll do exactly.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 08:43 am
Not much he can do. Hillary and Edwards are already positioning to take his place. He will fade, as did Gore - yesterday's news.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 08:47 am
george, you're really not getting the purpose of this thread, are you? One little thread. A bastion, a safe place. You guys have yours, Ticomaya's.

One.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 08:48 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Not much he can do. Hillary and Edwards are already positioning to take his place. He will fade, as did Gore - yesterday's news.


If we want to continue for this place to be a place for democrats to weep and gnash then we are going to resist the urge to respond to gate crashers. It will be hard but if we don't then this thread will be the same as other boards.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 08:50 am
I think george is a basically reasonable person and will respond to reason.

If not, then yeah, ignoring sounds about right.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 08:57 am
I don't know a few hints have already been told to him and still he keeps saying stuff.
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georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 08:57 am
"Respond to reason" for what? My observation about Kerry's current situation was merely a statement of fact directly relevant to Soz' (perhaps rhetorical) question in a previous post.

Ignore and stomp your feet if you wish, but this childish demand for a dialogue exclusively of the similarly inclined on this or any like public forum is laughable and absurd.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 08:59 am
trolls.
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blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:01 am
Okay, enough whining. We took a hell of a beating. We need to figure out what went wrong, fix it and then go back and retake the place. We've got 4 years. Let's get started.

In the meantime, let's not fall for that passive, national unity, all one nation, koombaya crap. They never did, why should we?
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:01 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Ignore and stomp your feet if you wish, but this childish demand for a dialogue exclusively of the similarly inclined on this or any like public forum is laughable and absurd.

In this case, it would seem to make sense for you to stop participating in it. Which is, in fact, exactly what the teeth-gnashers are asking you so politely to do. Is it really so hard to understand that this by design a self-pity thread, not a debate thread? And that those who see no reason for self pity are being asked to stay out for lack of shared purpose, not out of personal animosity to them ?
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mac11
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:01 am
Ignoring.

Lola, thank you for posting the concession speech. I've been much too sad to watch any coverage on tv. I haven't even been reading much online.
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Paaskynen
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:03 am
So what's gonna happen now?
Four years ago I wrote condoleances to my US pen pal and foretold him that his new president would go to war at the first possible opportunity. What will I tell him now?

I think that what we are seeing is the predictions of the Club of Rome gradually becoming reality during our lifetime. Oil (and other mineral) resources are dwindling while demand (especially from developing economies like China) is growing.

The sensible and farsighted thing to do would be to invest heavily in sustainable alternative resources and spread the technology as far and wide as possible. However, we know that the Bush administration is doing the contrary: the US are consuming more oil and other resources than any other nation on earth. Americans drive bigger and bigger gas guzzlers and petrol prices are kept low. Why? What's the idea?

I think it is partly bread and games and it is partly the interests of the oil industry. Every sane person knows that the oil is going to run out sooner or later, so oil becomes a rare commodity and control of the resource will be of great strategic importance. Therefore the Bush clique seek to use the might of the world's only superpower to gain control of the oil. That way they can check China's future threat (unless the Chinese develop alternative energy sources).

The thing is that the majority of the oil producing nations are muslim. Therefore, in order to explain going to war against these countries we must make islam the enemy. Osama fits the bill perfectly. Naturally, we do not want to destroy him, because then people might think the threat is over, so we must cultivate the enemy, the war must be endless so that we can use it as a tool to remain power (in 4 year's time you can bet your buttocks that Jeb will be a contender), divide the people and spread fear, fear keeps people in a stranglehold and makes them easy to rule.

The war in Iraq is not going to end soon, but Bush will try to "Iraquify" the fighting so that it will be Iraquis killing each other and if that doesn't work properly he will try to escalate the conflict to the neighbouring countries, preferably Iran, which also has large oil reserves and borders on Afghanistan. Direct or indirect control of the oil is the goal and with the hand on that rare resource the US power will be assured for the immediate future, the EU and China will be at the mercy of the US oil barons in the White House.

The good that might come from this is perhaps that the rest of the world will be keener to develop new energy sources and that the EU will draw closer together in the face of the antagonistic, go it alone policies of Bush (but I think myself that he can rely on the talent of the Europeans to be divided among themselves until kingdom comes).

At home Bush will continue to cultivate his hard core right wing support, i.e. the military industrial big shots and the fundamentalist Christians, especially the latter are a very reliable base of voting cattle and cannon fodder. So you can expect that the supreme court will turn more conservative and that Roe vs Wade will come under serious attack. I think that social security will deteriorate even further and that education will not improve, for as these elections have shown, the ignorance of the people works in favour of the powerful. Stupid people will happily go off to fight in countries that they couldn't even find on a map if their life depended on it (and it may, sadly). But as Schiller stated long ago: Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain.

I'm depressed Sad
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:07 am
Me too. :-(

(Thanks, Thomas, you are an absolute peach.)

mac, I planned on staying well away from the concession speech and then decided to go for it -- it really marked a turning point in my ability to deal with this whole thing. Cried buckets, felt awful, but have been less desperately sad since.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:10 am
I am getting passed depressed and sad and going on to just plain mad. I bet I kicked off the board before too long or just become to obnoxious for anyone to pay attention to. Oh, well, in that case maybe I will take up knitting.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:11 am
Thomas, you said it all.

I'm a little less depressed than yesterday. As for what Kerry will do, he's still the 'senator from massachusetts'! There's still a lot he can do.
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Ticomaya
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:50 am
georgeob1 wrote:
"Respond to reason" for what? My observation about Kerry's current situation was merely a statement of fact directly relevant to Soz' (perhaps rhetorical) question in a previous post.

Ignore and stomp your feet if you wish, but this childish demand for a dialogue exclusively of the similarly inclined on this or any like public forum is laughable and absurd.


George: This thread is not for you to post in. As sozobe, Thomas, and others have mentioned above, this is for the anti-Bush crowd to gather and commiserate. Please respect that and leave them alone.

You may have a desire to debate these folks, but choose the correct thread, please. And we Bush supporters have our own thread:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=993188#993188 should you feel the need to celebrate or gloat in peace.

Thanks.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:50 am
Paaskynen:

That's very well put. I actually got to spend several weeks in Finland as a guest musician and audio technician while they were in the throws of privatizing their media industry back in the late 80's. I got to see a lot of the country, including Lapland, Helsinki, Oulu(sp?), and the people were absolutely wonderful, warm, friendly, and I got drunk several nights on that damn Viina (Korskicorva(sp?)) whilst eating sausages and baking in a sauna.

I love your country.

And you are dead on in your observation of what is happening in our country. Bush represents the oil industry and it's all consuming interests to dry up the world of this dwindling resource. Why we cannot concentrate more and invest more in alternative forms of energy would be counter-productive to the Bush cabal's quest to take over the world's resources.

But maybe there is still hope. I can't imagine four more years of this idiot without the usual "mispeak," croniesm, etc.

My guess is Michael Moore is busy putting together a rather revealing film on what took place in our country regarding the voting (i.e., Diebold) and other egregious acts of voter fraud and intimidation.

It will show the world how screwed up our Democracy is truly getting.

All I can say to the rest of the world is "hang in there." You and us who were so adamantly against a second Bush term have alot in common.

By the way, how's the weather in Tornio right now? It's pretty cold and miserable right here in San Francisco as we speak.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:53 am
Very cool of you Ticomaya, thanks.

revel, Laughing re: knitting...
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Synonymph
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:57 am
This is one example of the current front pages and magazine covers:

http://www.drudgereport.com/dm.jpg
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 09:59 am
Several month ago the CEO of Exon/Mobil was on Charlie Rose (a PBS talking heads show) what was interesting about this guy was that he had an almost religious faith that technology would find more oil. That it was out there and all we had to do was make the correct investments to find it.

These people have their heads in the sand and they are going to take us with them. I have never been so despairing in my life. If you look at the history of warfare as a universal human behavior, in almost all cases the ultimate cause has been over access to a scarce but crucial resource.
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