0
   

Weeping and gnashing of teeth

 
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 08:28 pm
This was another good one:


Halliburton Surges After Bush Re-Election
Wed Nov 3, 2004 05:51 PM ET


Part of me says to let the Bush supporters learn the hard way. Another part says they won't learn since they didn't from the first 4 years. As my Aunt would say... "Big Red Truck!"
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 08:35 pm
fbaezer wrote:

Why don't you seccede and build Pacifica, a cool- groovy, multi-cultured, multi-layered, non-smoking, movie-producing, hip-hoping, very-rich nation?
I guess the US would ask you to keep the San Diego naval base though, as it has Guantanamo in Cuba... but San Diego is already a red spot, isn't it?


They couldn't make it without the Colorado river water. Also add a few more red spots (I liked that) La Jolla, Rancho Santa Fe, Pallisades and much of Orange county.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 09:01 pm
revel wrote:
I decided to spend the rest of the day doing domestic stuff and left off the TV. My husband was pleasantly surprised to find a full course meal for a change. So I missed the concession speech.

Was he gracious? Was he stiff? I wish I had seen it. But I can't make myself turn on the news to watch reruns of it. Maybe they will have a video of it somewhere on internet in couple of days.
.


He's so thoroughly in candidate mode -- he delivered it almost like a stump speech, but there was a lot of emotion there. I was bawling throughout when I saw it live, but then saw a rerun on Newshour (PBS), and it was good. What killed me was the end of the live version, the camera stayed on him as he talked to people, and he looked so sad -- his body language was "I'm so sorry I failed you."

Ugh.

What got me most emotional during the speech was when, acknowledging what so many people had done for him, he said something like "I wish he could just wrap up all of you in a huge hug."
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 10:05 pm
squinney wrote:
This was another good one:


Halliburton Surges After Bush Re-Election

Both in absolute terms and by comparing the market performance of HALliburton to the Dow Jones Industrial Average over the course of Bush The Greater's first term, it is difficult to make the case Halliburton has been the beneficiary of preferential treatment.

http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/HAL.jpg

Halliburton has lost money in 10 of the last 12 quarters, 7, including the most recent, consecutively.

"No Bid Contract"? Not exactly:
Quote:
Halliburton's "No-Bid" Contract: Fact or Myth?

What is really meant by the use of the phrase "no-bid" when describing Halliburton's contracts associated with Operation Iraqi Freedom? What is implicit in the statement is a claim that Halliburton was awarded a contract that included a blank-check for the services they provide and that said contract was awarded in contravention of the competitive bidding process. Unfortunately the truth is quite the opposite.

The Pentagon, with few exceptions, has traditionally conducted logistics and reconstruction services through its own forces under the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers. However, in the early 1990's, in an attempt to reduce standing forces and costs, the Pentagon developed the U.S. Army Logistics Civil Augmentation Program (a.k.a. LOGCAP). LOGCAP provides for a multi-year agreement with the Pentagon wherein a company agrees to be on-call to provide any and all services needed as bid. The operative phrase there is "as bid." Companies wishing to do business under a LOGCAP Agreement must submit bids for same. The contract, once awarded, becomes a standing agreement for a pre-determined period thereby alleviating the necessity of obtaining competitive bids each time a need arises.

In 2001 KBR (Kellogg, Brown & Root), a subsidiary of Halliburton, won a LOGCAP Agreement. Under this agreement KBR was called-upon in 2003 to provide post-war oil well fire containment and reconstruction at a maximum cost of $1 billion. The Pentagon reasonably presumed that the Iraqis would torch or otherwise destroy their oil wells as happened in Kuwait during the 1991 Gulf War. While there were some oil well fires, the numbers thereof was nowhere near that which was expected. No competitive bids were solicited as said service fell under the parameters of an existing LOGCAP Agreement. Describing the KBR agreement as a "no-bid contract" is therefore a misnomer.

Many Conservative pundits have argued that the Clinton Administration issued Halliburton a no-bid contract for its efforts in the Balkans. Under the strictest meaning of the terms Halliburton's deal with the Clinton Administration does fit the definition of a no-bid contract. Halliburton's original LOGCAP Agreement issued in 1992 actually expired in 1997. To quote Rich Lowry, editor of National Review, "The Clinton administration nonetheless awarded a no-bid contract to Halliburton to continue its work in the Balkans supporting the U.S. peacekeeping mission there because it made little sense to change midstream." In fact, Al Gore's Reinventing Government Panel praised Halliburton for its work in military logistics in the 1990's.

Additionally, it is noteworthy here that under LOGCAP Agreements, the Pentagon determines the amount of compensation, not the company. The company is under obligation to provide the needed services within the budgetary constraints established by the Pentagon even if its costs exceed the value thereof.

While the use of the expression "no-bid contract" with respect to U.S. efforts in Iraq fails to measure up in most cases, such contracts do exist. Government entities occasionally award contacts to specific companies without obtaining competitive bids for a host of reasons. It is almost impossible to resist the urge to attribute such deals to some form of political favoritism as the recipients are at times, large campaign contributors and/or otherwise associated with government power brokers. Notwithstanding, there are legitimate non-nefarious reasons why a company would be awarded such a "sweet-heart" deal.

Certain companies have experience and capabilities in particular industries which makes them ideal candidates for providing certain services in an efficient and cost-effective manner. In many cases it is the sheer size and reputation of a company that affords it a competitive edge. This is particularly so when a government agency has a limited amount of financial resources and/or a project that must be completed within a short period of time. It is advisable under these circumstances to seek out a company that will agree to provide the needed services within existing budgetary constraints rather than taking the time to shop for competitive bids. Some of these are known simply as ID/IQ Agreements. Both Halliburton and Bechtel have been recipients of same.

ID/IQ Agreements are basically contracts to provide specific products and services at a fixed-price for an indefinite delivery period and in an indefinite quantity. Contrary to Congressman Henry Waxman's assessment this type of agreement is not "bad for taxpayers." In actuality this is a mutually beneficial arrangement for the government and the company involved. The government has established a ceiling above which it will no go and the companies then compete to provide the products and services at or below that level. Real-world costs are dynamic, not static and when costs exceed the agreed-upon maximum, the overrun must be absorbed by the company. On the other hand, when costs fall below the agreed-upon maximum the company can factor in a reasonable markup. The safeguard against unconscionable markups is found in the ability of the government to conduct unannounced audits. As you may recall this procedure is what lead to the finding that Halliburton had overstated its costs on several invoices to the Pentagon. I call this a substantial tax-payer benefit. When a private company overcharges the tax-payer we are able to recoup the costs however when the government is the service provider that tax-payer has little or no recourse.

For these and other reason, Halliburton has been awarded no-bid contracts for work in Iraq.

In a war logistics is of utmost importance and time is of the essence. The idea of the perfect, unalterable plan of war and occupation only exists in the minds of Leftist politicians. Real wars on the other hand, are fluid and unpredictable. Military personnel and their civilian overseers have to ready and willing to make split-second decisions which can sometimes mean the abandonment or reorganization of existing goals and timetables. It has been said that "no plan of battle ever survives the first engagement with the enemy." How true this is. For a plan of battle is only as good as the willingness of your enemy to comply.


FactCheck debunks the "Cheney Makes a Profit" meme, and while you're there, see THIS[/i][/u] and THIS for more information inconvenient to the absurd arguments posed by folks who seem to want to see boogeymen in The Current Administration and/or its relationship to Halliburton.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 11:03 pm
Gnash.







I have, as lots here know, been keen to spend time in italy (and England and Ireland and France and Spain and Brazil and more in Mexico and, yes, Costa Rica, and Australia, and Japan, and many other places, but I haven't wanted to give up my root self here, in California. I still don't., but I am not a happy girl.

The good news is that I am not the only one who thinks as I do here.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 11:18 pm
Did anyone invite those who still want to gloat? I'm disgusted with those who voted for Bush. They deserve what they're going to get. But those who didn't vote for him don't. As Eva said, I'll find it very hard not to get myself banned if I stay around here for the next few weeks..............

Sad is not my only emotion........anger is pretty high up there right now.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 11:20 pm
revel wrote:
We have to face the fact that for some reason a little more than the majority of Americans love Bush and really believe in him and all his policies. Religion plays a big part in it this time for the rural people, they ranked that over economics.

Clyp...is right. We do either have to accept it or keep fighting it. The trouble I have is that we have been fighting it for over four years. This religious stuff started before (now) President Bush took office. 9/11 just enforced the trend that was already taking place.

Clearly we have to take another approach than directly just blurting out things like, "bush is a liar." Even if we give all kind of logical reasons with proof to back it up (and I know people have); it still don't work. People have seem to have dug into their beliefs


<nodding>
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 11:21 pm
Here's what Kerry had to say to his supporters. Very classy of him. I wish I could say the same for myself. Sorry, but I'm just pissed off!

Quote:
Dear [Lola],

Earlier today I spoke to President Bush, and offered him and Laura our congratulations on their victory. We had a good conversation, and we talked about the danger of division in our country and the need, the desperate need, for unity for finding the common ground, coming together. Today, I hope that we can begin the healing.

In America, it is vital that every vote counts, and that every vote be counted. But the outcome should be decided by voters, not a protracted legal process. I would not give up this fight if there was a chance that we would prevail. But it is now clear that even when all the provisional ballots are counted, which they will be, there won't be enough outstanding votes for our campaign to be able to win Ohio. And therefore, we cannot win this election.

It was a privilege and a gift to spend two years traveling this country, coming to know so many of you. I wish I could just wrap you in my arms and embrace each and every one of you individually all across this nation. I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.

To all of you, my volunteers and online supporters, all across this country who gave so much of themselves, thank you. Thanks to William Field, a six-year-old who collected $680, a quarter and a dollar at a time selling bracelets during the summer to help change America. Thanks to Michael Benson from Florida who I spied in a rope line holding a container of money. It turned out he raided his piggy bank and wanted to contribute. And thanks to Alana Wexler, who at 11 years old and started Kids for Kerry.

I thank all of you, who took time to travel, time off from work, and their own vacation time to work in states far and wide. You braved the hot days of summer and the cold days of the fall and the winter to knock on doors because you were determined to open the doors of opportunity to all Americans. You worked your hearts out, and I say, don't lose faith. What you did made a difference, and building on itself, we will go on to make a difference another day. I promise you, that time will come -- the election will come when your work and your ballots will change the world, and it's worth fighting for.

I'm proud of what we stood for in this campaign, and of what we accomplished. When we began, no one thought it was possible to even make this a close race, but we stood for real change, change that would make a real difference in the life of our nation, the lives of our families, and we defined that choice to America. I'll never forget the wonderful people who came to our rallies, who stood in our rope lines, who put their hopes in our hands, who invested in each and every one of us. I saw in them the truth that America is not only great, but it is good.

So here -- with a grateful heart, I leave this campaign with a prayer that has even greater meaning to me now that I've come to know our vast country so much better and that prayer is very simple: God bless America.

Thank you,



John Kerry
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 11:22 pm
I'm afraid we have to wait until financial loss hits the Upperness.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 11:26 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
fbaezer wrote:

Why don't you seccede and build Pacifica, a cool- groovy, multi-cultured, multi-layered, non-smoking, movie-producing, hip-hoping, very-rich nation?


They couldn't make it without the Colorado river water.

Whatcha gonna do, build dams and revert the Colorado river water back to Iowa? Razz
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 11:33 pm
Revel wrote:
Quote:
We have to face the fact that for some reason a little more than the majority of Americans love Bush and really believe in him and all his policies. Religion plays a big part in it this time for the rural people, they ranked that over economics.


I don't think most love or believe in Bush........I think they're scared and too frightened to settle for less that the easiest answer they can find.
0 Replies
 
smog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 11:53 pm
Lola wrote:
Here's what Kerry had to say to his supporters. Very classy of him.

This was also the concession speech he used earlier today.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 12:03 am
Well, f/b on water, and anyone who says LA snagged Mono Lake is right.

The movie Chinatown, though dramatically wrought, isn't all so wrong.

A lot of water lassoing happens, with a lot of ineptitude and lack of ecosystemic view. Not that I, now in my early sixties, heard of eco when I was in college. But between then and now, there have been a bunch of water grabs and water channels that could use discussing, to make things better for all, including the land, all along the natural water flow. Not just with the Colorado, but with the Mississippi, etc.
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 02:24 am
sozobe wrote:
What got me most emotional during the speech was when, acknowledging what so many people had done for him, he said something like "I wish he could just wrap up all of you in a huge hug."


Soz, that got me going as well...I just could not stop my tears... Sad
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 07:21 am
Lola wrote:
Revel wrote:
Quote:
We have to face the fact that for some reason a little more than the majority of Americans love Bush and really believe in him and all his policies. Religion plays a big part in it this time for the rural people, they ranked that over economics.


I don't think most love or believe in Bush........I think they're scared and too frightened to settle for less that the easiest answer they can find.


If you look at some of the states that Bush carried they were little states and when people asked those people why they voted for Bush almost all of them say something like, "because he is a christian." In 11 states the question of gay marraige was put up for a vote and in those 11 states it was banned. (I think I got the figure right, but the point remains the same) Kerry saying that he wouldn't nominate a pro life judge probably hurt him with those folks and the fact that his state started off with this gay marriage stuff probably hurt him. I live in one those little states in a rurual little backwards county and I have heard people talking myself and it is the moral issue that elected Bush over anything else.

Also we got to give credit where it is due, the bush machine really did their job in painting kerry as some kind of overaged hippie anti war liberal by putting out the most slanted information I have ever seen on their websites. However with the people that visited these websites probably already felt this way to begin with.

What is so hard about the moral issue is that you can't really fight religion.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 07:22 am
I watched his concession speech on the MSNBC website, you guys are right, it was a little bit like a campaign speech. It probably hasn't hit him yet.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 07:22 am
timberlandko wrote:

Both in absolute terms and by comparing the market performance of HALliburton to the Dow Jones Industrial Average over the course of Bush The Greater's first term, it is difficult to make the case Halliburton has been the beneficiary of preferential treatment.

Halliburton has lost money in 10 of the last 12 quarters, 7, including the most recent, consecutively.


Good post Timber. The piece about government contracting and the LOGCAP contracts is entirely accurate - I'm in the business and know this directly.

The only problem is that facts, for those addicted to fantasy, are rarely satisfying.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 07:24 am
You guys are crashing.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 07:32 am
Indeed. Timber and george, we can discuss that stuff on another thread. This one is for self-loathing and uninhibited wallowing.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 08:21 am
FreeDuck wrote:
This one is for self-loathing and uninhibited wallowing.


Nice turn of phrase.
0 Replies
 
 

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