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Homosexual Marriage defeated by WIDE Margins

 
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 10:37 am
CoastalRat wrote:
I must be missing something here. I am under the impression that gays have the exact same rights as everyone else in this country.


You are under a totally wrong impression. It is legal in most places to discriminate in hiring, housing, etc against gays, lesbians, bisexual and trans persons.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 10:38 am
No it isn't.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 10:43 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
I must be missing something here. I am under the impression that gays have the exact same rights as everyone else in this country. What they want is to change the law to give them additional rights.

Like McG, I think more support will be given to gay unions if provisions are made to differentiate between marriages (a religious rite) and civil unions (a secular rite).


I have been married 5 times....twice in a church...twice by a JP...once by a magistrate......all the marriages save one ended in divorce....like 50% of every marriage...I am not unusual.....where does the sacred religious rite part come in?


BPB, let me better explain my thinking. Forget about the sad state of most marriages today. Too many people, IMO, get married for the wrong reasons and with very little thought (thanks in part to no fault divorces, but that is another issue).

Currently, civic and religious marriages are recognized by all parties as legal unions, both by the church and by governments for legal reasons. My thought is to differentiate the ceremonies so that churches, for religious reasons, have no legal compulsion to recognize civil unions if said unions violate church doctrine (as gay unions would).

I think much of the fear of gay unions by christians is that the government, wielding tax exempt status as a weapon, will force churches to recognize gay unions as legit. To me, this appears to be a reasonable fear. Creating gay unions as a seperate entity outside of marriage to recognize the rights of the two partners in regard to the others property et al would be more palatable to many more christians than what is being attempted now.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 10:49 am
McGentrix wrote:
No, the sanctity of marriage is a fraud to some people. To others it is very real and very important. Why should we make their beliefs less important than anyone elses?


and therein lies the problem....elevating one groups beliefs equates to lowering your groups beliefs in your eyes and the eyes of those like you.....as long as no one is willing to abandon this narrow view, these problems will persist.......
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 10:52 am
CoastalRat wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
I must be missing something here. I am under the impression that gays have the exact same rights as everyone else in this country. What they want is to change the law to give them additional rights.

Like McG, I think more support will be given to gay unions if provisions are made to differentiate between marriages (a religious rite) and civil unions (a secular rite).


I have been married 5 times....twice in a church...twice by a JP...once by a magistrate......all the marriages save one ended in divorce....like 50% of every marriage...I am not unusual.....where does the sacred religious rite part come in?


BPB, let me better explain my thinking. Forget about the sad state of most marriages today. Too many people, IMO, get married for the wrong reasons and with very little thought (thanks in part to no fault divorces, but that is another issue).

Currently, civic and religious marriages are recognized by all parties as legal unions, both by the church and by governments for legal reasons. My thought is to differentiate the ceremonies so that churches, for religious reasons, have no legal compulsion to recognize civil unions if said unions violate church doctrine (as gay unions would).

I think much of the fear of gay unions by christians is that the government, wielding tax exempt status as a weapon, will force churches to recognize gay unions as legit. To me, this appears to be a reasonable fear. Creating gay unions as a seperate entity outside of marriage to recognize the rights of the two partners in regard to the others property et al would be more palatable to many more christians than what is being attempted now.


God forbid the church should have to choose between sticking to their convictions or maintaining their tax exempt status.......tell the churches if they don't honor gay marriage they'll have to pay taxes and they'll start opening an extra day just to perform gay wedding ceremonies Rolling Eyes :wink: Laughing
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 10:56 am
McGentrix wrote:
No it isn't.


Yes it is.

Please quote the Federal Statute outlawing discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender status.
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:02 am
Rat, how do two women in San Fransisco getting married have any effect on you?
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:05 am
BTW CR don't you think something should be done about people changing their sex and then marrying someone of the same sex that he or she was when born. Don't you think something should be done about that? Or have you already done something about that in South Carolina?
0 Replies
 
cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:12 am
Harper wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
I must be missing something here. I am under the impression that gays have the exact same rights as everyone else in this country.


You are under a totally wrong impression. It is legal in most places to discriminate in hiring, housing, etc against gays, lesbians, bisexual and trans persons.



Please name the places
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:13 am
Why has no one made the obvious and nefarious connection yet to how allowing gays to marry will lead to interspecies relationships?

C'mon you homophobes and fundamentalists...get on top of your game Laughing
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:14 am
Harper wrote:
Rat, how do two women in San Fransisco getting married have any effect on you?


Never said it did Harper. The only effect at this time is that it is against the law. They want the law changed. Not me. They need to prove why this country should change its laws to accomodate them. Most of what they want to accomplish can be done thru legal contracts (property right issues, power of attorney, etc). About the only thing they truly gain that they have no access to now by legalizing marriage is related to tax issues, and this can be done by creating a civil union that need not be recognized by churches.

BPB, I used the tax exempt status as one example. And you know what, I would be a lot of churches would give up their tax exempt status over this, and many won't because they have moved away from biblical authority already and won't care. Other issues that I think (again, this is just my own opinion here) are a problem is the possibility of gays suing churches for membership, for leadership positions and so on. Again, I am maybe placing my opinion here in the mouth of the churches, so I could be wrong. Just looking at it as I think churches are looking at it.
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:15 am
cannistershot wrote:
Harper wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
I must be missing something here. I am under the impression that gays have the exact same rights as everyone else in this country.


You are under a totally wrong impression. It is legal in most places to discriminate in hiring, housing, etc against gays, lesbians, bisexual and trans persons.



Please name the places


Everywhere without a local ordinance banning discrimination against GLBT persons and everywhere where same-sex marriage is banned. Can you people possibly be this misinformed?
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:16 am
My bet is that the number of churches willing to give up tax exempt status would be microscopic.....
and that whoever was president if it happened would not be reelected Laughing
0 Replies
 
Harper
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:20 am
CoastalRat wrote:
Harper wrote:
Rat, how do two women in San Fransisco getting married have any effect on you?


Never said it did Harper. The only effect at this time is that it is against the law. They want the law changed. Not me. They need to prove why this country should change its laws to accomodate them. Most of what they want to accomplish can be done thru legal contracts (property right issues, power of attorney, etc). About the only thing they truly gain that they have no access to now by legalizing marriage is related to tax issues, and this can be done by creating a civil union that need not be recognized by churches.
.


Wow, this is appalling, it really is. Why do you care if they get the law changed to get the same rights you have, how does it affect you? I will tell you how it affects you, it bothers your prejudicial and outmoded beliefs and fears. This next statement reveals how totally misinformed CR is:


Quote:
About the only thing they truly gain that they have no access to now by legalizing marriage is related to tax issues, and this can be done by creating a civil union that need not be recognized by churches.


Recognized by churches?????????????????????????????/
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:21 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
My bet is that the number of churches willing to give up tax exempt status would be microscopic.....
and that whoever was president if it happened would not be reelected Laughing


We would find out which churches are being true to their beliefs and which ones were only paying lip service, that is for sure. As a Christian, I would hope there would be more than a few sticking up for our beliefs, but I do fear you are probably closer to being right about the number.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:25 am
Coastal Rat what will you do when you get to heaven and they take you to your mansion that has been prepared for you if it turns out to be next door to Freddie Mercury and he's out in the yard in a spandex jumpsuit?
0 Replies
 
Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:25 am
CoastalRat wrote:
Harper wrote:
Rat, how do two women in San Fransisco getting married have any effect on you?


Never said it did Harper. The only effect at this time is that it is against the law. They want the law changed. Not me. They need to prove why this country should change its laws to accomodate them. Most of what they want to accomplish can be done thru legal contracts (property right issues, power of attorney, etc). About the only thing they truly gain that they have no access to now by legalizing marriage is related to tax issues, and this can be done by creating a civil union that need not be recognized by churches.


Such a union already exists, it's called marriage, now all we need to do is extend it to encompass gay and lesbian people.

Oh, and the 'burden of evidence' if you may always lies on those who would enact restrictive legislation to prove that it is beneficial. The default is freedom of choice.

Quote:
BPB, I used the tax exempt status as one example. And you know what, I would be a lot of churches would give up their tax exempt status over this, and many won't because they have moved away from biblical authority already and won't care.


Personally I don't think religion should be tax exempt in the first place, but what do I know.

Quote:
Other issues that I think (again, this is just my own opinion here) are a problem is the possibility of gays suing churches for membership, for leadership positions and so on. Again, I am maybe placing my opinion here in the mouth of the churches, so I could be wrong. Just looking at it as I think churches are looking at it.


I don't see that happening as a result of gay marriage, but perhaps you are making a slippery slope argument?
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:28 am
Harper, where have I said I care if they get the law changed?? I did not. We are a nation of laws, and as a Christian, I may disagree with gay marriage, but I will follow the laws which govern this nation.

The gay agenda is doing all they can to insist that everyone recognize their lifestyle as normal and acceptable. Christians do not believe the lifestyle is normal or acceptable, yet you would have churches forced to recognize a union of two men or two women just as they would a man and wife union. Where here is the seperation of church and state that you and others are so fond of pushing?

Those in the gay rights movement are doing a great disservice to themselves by attempting an end run around the laws rather than using LEGAL means to change the laws. They have every right to try to change them. Christians and other people of faith have every right to try to keep the laws from being changed. But all of us need to obey the laws until change is made.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:31 am
Quote:
The gay agenda is doing all they can to insist that everyone recognize their lifestyle as normal and acceptable. Christians do not believe the lifestyle is normal or acceptable, yet you would have churches forced to recognize a union of two men or two women just as they would a man and wife union. Where here is the seperation of church and state that you and others are so fond of pushing?


Repeat after me:

Marriage
and
Church

are two completely different things. A marriage is a legal binding contract between two people; a church is a place where one has their marriage.

There's no reason to even bring religion into the argument.

As for your first point in this paragraph,

Quote:
The gay agenda is doing all they can to insist that everyone recognize their lifestyle as normal and acceptable.


Sounds just like those pesky African-Americans did a while back. Maybe we should learn a lesson from that time period?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 11:31 am
Harper wrote:
cannistershot wrote:
Harper wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
I must be missing something here. I am under the impression that gays have the exact same rights as everyone else in this country.


You are under a totally wrong impression. It is legal in most places to discriminate in hiring, housing, etc against gays, lesbians, bisexual and trans persons.



Please name the places


Everywhere without a local ordinance banning discrimination against GLBT persons and everywhere where same-sex marriage is banned. Can you people possibly be this misinformed?



Can you be more misinformed? In the State of GA it is illegal to refuse rental of a dwelling to anyone based on age race or sexual orientation. I will see if I can scan a copy of my agreement and post it. So name one place please.
0 Replies
 
 

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