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Homosexual Marriage defeated by WIDE Margins

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 07:28 pm
cannistershot, before you complain about au's posts, can you explain what this is supposed to mean.

cannistershot wrote:
Maybe some of us don't want to be known as "secular" Wordly rather than Godly is not my choice.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 07:30 pm
and cyclo, you've got to give canshot his/her/it's props for trying to understand the gay rights issue generally.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 07:31 pm
Awesome! It's great that people are treated like people.

Now, the original premise is that these people (who you admit are people) do NOT have the same exact benefits you do(if you are straight, that is) in that they cannot marry the person they love, legally, or derive a legal bonus from coexisting with said person.

This doesn't actually stop them from DOING any of the things that people dislike them for; just keeps it from being legal, because that would imply approval of their lifestyle, which many are unwilling to do.

If you truly do not discriminate against them, surely you would be a proponent of allowing them to marry(even if it is called something else, but given the same legal status)?

Cycloptichorn
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 07:31 pm
because?
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 07:34 pm
ehBeth wrote:
cannistershot, before you complain about au's posts, can you explain what this is supposed to mean.

cannistershot wrote:
Maybe some of us don't want to be known as "secular" Wordly rather than Godly is not my choice.



Being known as wordly is an insult to me. I strive to be known as Godly. I hope that this helps?
0 Replies
 
cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 07:39 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Awesome! It's great that people are treated like people.

Now, the original premise is that these people (who you admit are people) do NOT have the same exact benefits you do(if you are straight, that is) in that they cannot marry the person they love, legally, or derive a legal bonus from coexisting with said person.

This doesn't actually stop them from DOING any of the things that people dislike them for; just keeps it from being legal, because that would imply approval of their lifestyle, which many are unwilling to do.

If you truly do not discriminate against them, surely you would be a proponent of allowing them to marry(even if it is called something else, but given the same legal status)?

Cycloptichorn


A legal bonus? I need to look into that. Where is mine?

I am not opposed to calling it something else. BUT to me marriage is a religious ceremony between a man and a woman.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 07:53 pm
If you are married, you do enjoy protections under the law from testifying; you enjoy the right to property after death; visitation rights in hospitals; family leave rights.

In all, there are something like a thousand different rights conferred upon married people that gays are currently ineligible for.

I don't have a problem with anyone keeping their religious ceremony the way it is; that is your right. But we should have the same legal rights for gays who wish to marry as straight folks, even if they have to call it something else.

Cycloptichorn
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 08:48 pm
cannistersnot said
Quote:
I am not opposed to calling it something else. BUT to me marriage is a religious ceremony between a man and a woman


Are we to understand you believe people who are married in a civil ceremony are not married? I hope that sentence does not disturb your fragile sensibilities.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 09:08 pm
cannistershot wrote:
A legal bonus? I need to look into that. Where is mine?

I am not opposed to calling it something else. BUT to me marriage is a religious ceremony between a man and a woman.


Well to a large portion of the population marriage in not a religious ceremony. Does that affect you in any way.? Do you feel the need to require all marriages to be performed by clergy in a religious ceremony?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 09:10 pm
What the he!! is "wordly"?

Is it a typo for something, or a term meaning something? Sorry canshot, but I really don't know what you mean. And I don't want to assume/presume an interpretation.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 10:13 pm
Please educate yourself
cannistershot wrote:
Maybe some of us don't want to be known as "secular" Wordly rather than Godly is not my choice. So explain the difference between you pushing that on me and me pushing against gay marriage?


Frankly (and thank GOD! for the wisdom of our forefathers), the secular governance of this country doesn't rely upon what YOU want.

Not one single person in this country is pushing gay marriage upon YOU.

What other people do in their private lives is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Why do you insist, because of your alleged "Godly" character, that YOU have the right to interfere in other people's private lives and dictate to them whom they may and may not marry?

A truly "Godly" person is loving and tolerant of others.

YOU have demonstrated hate and intolerance of others. That is called "hypocrisy."

A truly "Godly" person would not engage in oppression and deprive others of the same liberties and rights that he himself enjoys.

You have demonstrated that YOU want to oppress others and deprive them of the same liberties that you enjoy simply because you disapprove of them--you find them morally objectionable.

As our courts have repeatedly reminded the people of this great nation: "[Our] obligation is to define the liberty of all, not to mandate its own moral code." Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey, 505 U. S. 833, 850; Lawrence v. Texas.

When and if you ever overcome ignorance and understand that YOU may not mandate YOUR moral code upon others--when you understand that hate and intolerance of others can never serve as a basis for enacting laws that discriminate against the hated group--then maybe you can call yourself "Godly."
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 10:36 pm
ehBeth wrote:
What the he!! is "wordly"?


Probably came from Dictionary.com's definition of secular.

1. Worldly rather than spiritual.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Nov, 2004 10:56 pm
Helpful Hints for the Conservative Christian
Helpful Hints for the Conservative Christian:

Winning the Same-Sex Marriage Argument in Six Easy Steps

Quote:
Let's admit it, my fellow conservative Christians: right now, we're losing the national argument about same-sex marriage. While we dilly and we dally, those homos are swinging their ding-dongs ever-closer to each other's bungholes under the bond of officially recognized matrimony. What they're up to in Massachussets today, they'll be doing in Mississippi tomorrow.

So it's time to get serious about how we engage in public arguments about same-sex marriage. With the forces for letting people love each other willy-nilly winning the hearts and minds of the American people, we can't afford to engage in on-the-spot original thinking here. It's time to get with the program! Ditch the radical honesty when talking with those same-sexers, people. Jesus tried it and look where it got him. Instead, I strongly urge you to practice ahead of time and have your zingers at the ready when some agent of the Twinkie Police tries shoving facts, logic, and constitutional passages down your throat.

In order to be maximally helpful, I've drawn up the following tips for you to use when arguing with Local Chapter 69 of the Sapphic Love Alliance. Don't think on your feet! Be prepared with the following argumentative tactics:

1. Same-Sex Marriages Hurt My Marriage. Those queers will say anything to win an argument, like "Why shouldn't people be free to do what they want, so long as it doesn't hurt anybody else?"

When they try this line, your first line of response should be that same-sex marriages ARE hurtful. How, you may ask? Well, first of all they are hurtful to marriages between men and women. Tell them you know of at least six married couples who have gotten divorced as a direct result of some guy, somewhere, getting married to some other guy. The typical lesbo queenie will ask you to identify who the particular man-woman married couples are who have gotten divorced because same-sex marriages came to pass. At this point, I suggest you use the line that has worked for so many lonely teenagers: "Well, you wouldn't know them. They live in Missouri." Whatever you do, don't let your opponent know that you don't actually know of any marriages that have dissolved because some same-sex couple got married somewhere else. The point is that we all know that it must be true, so that justifies you filling in the details a little bit.

If the butch dykes snicker condescendingly at this line, use your backup:

2. "What about the Children?" Yes, that's right, CHILDREN are hurt by same-sex marriage. We all know that the kids of same-sex couples turn out funny. Never mind that according to a statement by the American Academy of Pediatrics, "a considerable body of professional literature provides evidence that children with parents who are homosexual can have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment, and development as can children whose parents are heterosexual." What do doctors know, anyway? Pediatricians are probably all a bunch of queer lovers, anyway, so we know that they're, um, biased. That's right, biased! We just know in our hearts that same-sex marriage hurts the kiddies, so it must be true. Kind of like how George W. knew in his heart that Vlad Putin was a good guy. You know what I mean.

Once you've got them off balance, move on by making reference to...

3. The Holy Bible. It's important to point out that you, personally speaking, have nothing against faggots and dykes. If it were up to you, you say, Boris could lick Barry's bunghole with abandon! Try not to sneer as you say this: the appearance of sincerity is crucial here. As you finish this thought, raise your eyes skyward, turn your palms outward and upward and utter the following words with a lilt: "But the matter is not in my hands. It is only in His."

Yes, it's true. We conservative Christians would be all for gay love, gay rights and gay marriage -- but, darn it to H-E-Double Toothpicks, the Bible just won't let us go there. You see, Leviticus 18:22 lays it out perfectly clearly:

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Well, that makes it pretty clear, doesn't it? Oh, well, the Bible tells us to cast out those who engage in such acts (Leviticus 18:29), so we've got to do it. Sorry, but God says so. Really and truly, that's the only reason we're against same-sex marriage. It's a Bible thing, not a hate thing. Finish up your remarks by lowering your gaze to directly meet theirs, and then asking, "You aren't bashing Christianity, are you?"

Most people will stop right there. Who wants to "bash" anything? No, they will agree, certainly you have the right to practice your religion, which as everyone knows includes the "right" to pass laws so that everyone else has to follow your religion, too.

The other reason most people will tend to stop at that point is that most people have not actually read the Bible. This is to your advantage, as you may pick and choose Biblical text that seems to support your point of view. But every once in a while, some clever twit who has actually read the Bible will point out one of two things:

The Bible only prohibits male-male homosexuality. Girl-girl action is apparently OK by Yahweh. So why can't women marry women?
Leviticus 18:19, right next to Leviticus 18:22, says that "Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her menstrual impurity," and goes on to say that those who have sex with menstruating women shall be cast out of their communities (Leviticus 18:29), just as those engaging in boy-boy action should be cast out. So, they will say, where is the national outcry of conservative Christians against menstrual sex? Where is the constitutional amendment to make menstrual sex unconstitutional?

Be careful when people ask these questions, dear friend. They are clearly under the thrall of Satan, who is occupying their very throats in order to ask these "innocent" questions. What you do next depends on your circumstances. If you are near a phone, call the nearest priest and summon them to perform an exorcism. Then hang up the phone and, until that priest arrives, cover your ears and say "NANANANANANANANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" very loudly. Don't worry about looking stupid -- your soul is in danger!

If there is no phone nearby, you'll have to handle this dangerous situation all by yourself. Take a deep breath before proceeding. To answer the first question, simply assert the contrary: the Bible DOES prohibit lesbian sex! Really, it does! If your demonic opponent asks you to identify the passage doing so, cite Leviticus 18:18. Although the visible text of Leviticus 18:18 does not at first glance appear to prohibit women having sex with women, if you look close enough with a magnifying glass you can see very very tiny text reading, "and none of that girl-girl action saith the Lord!" If your demonic opponent says such text isn't visible even with a magnifying glass, respond that she or he needs a larger magnifying glass. Repeat this last claim as necessary.

On the second point, you can assure your conversational adversary that there are indeeed conservative Christians mobilizing against the abomination of menstrual sex. See, for instance, the religious opinion of the Density Church and of Landover Baptist Church. Most of the rest of us have our hands full taking care of the homos. Assure your opponent that we will come after the menstruating women next, assuming that the Homosexual Agenda does not prevail over our own.

What's that? Did I say "Homosexual Agenda?"

4. Homosexual Agenda. That's right, Homo Americanus has an agenda! You know and I know that they meet in their unique habitat, the latte bar, to plot their next moves to make the rest of us look stupid. How dare they want things! How dare they have a plan! Tell your opponent you know all about "that Homosexual Agenda," and slap a sly wink on your face to indicate that you know what you mean, and you know your opponent knows you know what you mean, you know what I mean?

Now, at this point, the clever and wily Homosexual might ask what this "Homosexual Agenda" is, and what might be so bad about it anyway. Whatever you do, do NOT respond to this question with specific aims of the queer lobby like freedom to love, freedom of association and stuff like that. When you say "freedom" next to "homo," you'll make them all look like patriots or normal Americans or something -- bad idea. Instead, just wink again and make reference to "Special Rights." It's not like everybody ELSE gets to marry whomever they want -- I, for instance, got stuck with my Martha when I got her pregnant back in '56. But no, the queers just don't know their bounds, pushing for their "Special Rights." This puts the perverts back in their place -- what do they think they are, "special?" How arrogant! How offensively aggressive! And this brings us to our next point:

5. The Homos are the Aggressors. One of the sneakiest tricks employed by the gay and lesbian conspiracy is to make it look like they're the aggrieved party here. And the liberal media has bought it, too, wringing its hands and crying about how they're being prevented from living their lives the way they want to. Well, boo hoo, ya fairies, go cry on somebody else's shoulder, because I'm not buying it -- and neither should you.

The truth is, when the gay boys try to marry each other, they're the ones who are being aggressive. Why, they're shoving their lifestyles down your throat! They're FORCING you to look at them when they hold hands on the street. They're FORCING you to walk around just knowing that in some bedroom somewhere, two men are rubbing their whiskers together despite the itchiness of it all. They're FORCING you to consider Ernie and Bert's relationship in a disturbing new light. They're FORCING you to imagine the thought of two naked women slathering themselves in baby oil and rubbing up and down each others' bodies before langourously taking each others' swollen nipples into their mouths... ahem. To complete the thought, they're FORCING you to contemplate how some people may not want to have marriages identical like yours. No freedom-loving American can permit people to enter into committed relationships at will! No, Liberty demands that these perverts just go back in the closet so we all can continue pretending they don't exist.

The Homosexuals are the Aggressors. And that makes you the Victim.

6. You Are the Victim. That's right, you're the victim in all this. You have been forced -- nay, COMPELLED -- to tolerate other people doing something you don't like. Not only that, but your freedom of religion has been violated, too! When those gay rights activists try to legalize same-sex marriage, they're stomping all over your Constitutional right to have conservative Christian principles enforced by our government and the police. How intolerant. If the lesbian lobby really respected our rights as conservative Christians, they would let us continue to restrict their choices. But they won't do that -- what haters they are! And how beset we are!

If your conversational opponent is not swayed by any of these points, and continues to tell you that you are the one trying to force other people to live their lives according to your beliefs, it's time to pull out the trump card of victimhood. Just do the following:

Take a deep breath.

Allow a tear to trickle down your cheek.

Look down at the ground, injured.

Wail "How can you SAY that?" very loudly and at a high pitch.

Good. Now, when everyone within a twenty-foot radius is looking at you, trot out one of the following phrases:

"Looks like I'm the only one not entitled to my opinion and beliefs."
"Apparently, MY right to free speech stops when it comes to speaking out against gay marriage!"
"Why is everybody censoring me?"
"I never expected to be hated this much for my beliefs."
"Religious people always get bashed like this. What happened to religious freedom?"
"I feel very uncomfortable with your hateful attitude."

Most liberal types can't handle the idea that they've made anybody else cry. So as you cry and tremble in the pose of victimhood they'll drop their positions, try to meet you halfway, utter phrases like "well, I'm sure your position has its merits," and do whatever they can to make you feel better. Milk this. Sniffle under your breath, "well, I'm glad to hear you respect my position," then before they can respond shuffle out of the room, voicing muffled sobs. The next time you meet, you are entitled to misrepresent your adversary's effort at emotional comfort as agreement regarding the legitimacy of prohibiting same-sex marriages. If your adversary tries to state otherwise, accuse them of "returning to hate," turn on your heel, and depart quickly, uttering "how disappointing" over your shoulder.

Carried out individually, using these six points in conversation may provoke ridicule. But if enough of us adopt this strategy, then we'll all look good. Remember, only you stand in the way of gays' and lesbians' matrimonial happiness. Be strong, and good luck.

0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 12:25 am
ROTFL
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Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 07:38 am
ehBeth wrote:
What the he!! is "wordly"?

Is it a typo for something, or a term meaning something? Sorry canshot, but I really don't know what you mean. And I don't want to assume/presume an interpretation.


It is a word. Basically worldly is Christianspeak for rooted in reality. The pesky worldly people tend to be more concerned with cause and effect, logic, reason, rights and such then they are about what it says in the bible.

A worldly person might for instance insist that clouds are condensed vapor even though the bible clearly states that clouds are dust from gods sandals.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 08:41 am
I wonder does Bush consider himself "Godly" or "God like"? Rolling Eyes
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 08:51 am
Everyones invited to my house this weekend....Friday night we're going downtown and hide in the alley and beat he **** out of all the gays coming out of Legends.....then it's off to the International House Of Pancakes for an after hours breakfast and some table to table face to face gay bashing.

Saturday morning proves to be even more exciting, after a group breakfast where we'll recount the previous night's activities.....it's up the road to kick the **** out of my grandmother's bridge club.....

Sunday morning of course we will head to church and pray for the wisdom and grace to be more Christ like in our daily walk.....
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 03:58 pm
Godliness is almost next to Cleanliness
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
[invitation for delightful weekend of gay bashing and a$$ kicking.]

Sunday morning of course we will head to church and pray for the wisdom and grace to be more Christ like in our daily walk.....


Sounds like fun. On Monday morning, of course, I will have to get back to my letter-writing campaign to all my elected representatives demanding (as it is my right to do) that they pass laws so that everyone else has to follow the teachings of my religion. We have to restrict other people's choices in their private lives because that's what God wants . . .
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 03:59 pm
ehBeth wrote:
What the he!! is "wordly"?

Is it a typo for something, or a term meaning something? Sorry canshot, but I really don't know what you mean. And I don't want to assume/presume an interpretation.



Thank you Beth, you are one of the few. Worldly is being out in the world, free of restraint, or religion, living by few or no rules etc. IMO
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cannistershot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2004 04:01 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Everyones invited to my house this weekend....Friday night we're going downtown and hide in the alley and beat he **** out of all the gays coming out of Legends.....then it's off to the International House Of Pancakes for an after hours breakfast and some table to table face to face gay bashing.

Saturday morning proves to be even more exciting, after a group breakfast where we'll recount the previous night's activities.....it's up the road to kick the **** out of my grandmother's bridge club.....

Sunday morning of course we will head to church and pray for the wisdom and grace to be more Christ like in our daily walk.....



B.Y.O.B.B.? (bring your own ball bat)
0 Replies
 
 

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