California Voters Approve Gay-Marriage Ban

Forums: Gay Marriage, California, Marriage Equality, Politics, Mindless Bigotry
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Well wasn't that progressive of them...

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Type: Discussion • Score: 60 • Views: 223,934 • Replies: 4,463

[+9] - sozobe - 08/04/2010OK: Hawkeye, I demand you stop being such a whiny victim about who gay people can or can't marry. What's it to you?
[+6] - Cycloptichorn - 08/04/2010Excellent news today! A victory for all Americans, whether they realize it or not. Cycloptichorn
[+6] - sozobe - 08/04/2010But they are not asking for special protected status. They're asking for the same status as anyone else. The confusion over the word "victim" is precisely what is at issue here....
[+5] - Cycloptichorn - 11/09/2009Frustrating that it is taking so long to solve this same-sex marriage problem, but it is inevitable. Surely Conservatives realize this. As their population grows older and dies off, my generation...
[+5] - Lightwizard - 08/04/2010Prop 8 flushed down the toilet where it belongs.
[+5] - Thomas - 08/04/2010[quote="Brandon9000"]It's always some elastic clause that they can simply use as a blunt weapon to deny the people the right of self-determination. [/quote] When a straight majority...
[+5] - sozobe - 08/04/2010Yep. Victimized by the victims. You poor victim. I feel very sorry for you.
[+5] - parados - 08/04/2010[quote]I am using "victim" in the sense of the belief that an injustice has occurred that requires the remedy of special protected status.[/quote] It's "special protected...
[+5] - Thomas - 08/07/2010[quote="failures art"]What does "fairly passed" mean?[/quote] As I understand Brandon, it merely means that the voting procedure wasn't corrupted by force or fraud. If two...
[+5] - cicerone imposter - 06/20/2011spendi, According to your logic, it's okay for you to marry a cow - and you should, because the cow is smarter than you! You lack logic or anything resembling common sense. Loving another...

@RexRed,

This is the second time they've done so. The most amazing thing though is California, often described as the very heart of American liberalism, voted conservative on just about every one of the propositions out there. They did approve assisted suicide, but I think voted against every other 'liberal' proposal. I honestly think the pendulum is beginning to swing back from the far left. We can always hope.

Once the traditional marriage is safe, then I am confident the people will get busy to provide a way for gay couples to enjoy the same protections as married people do, and I think that will pass with scarcely more than a murmor.

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@Foxfyre,

What is wrong with assisted suicide anyway?

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@maporsche,

I've been struggling with that one a long time Maporsche. There is a part of me that wants a Dr. Kavorkian should I be in the situation that I have no quality of life remaining and am ready to go. But there is the conservative side of me that does not want doctors to be in the business of killing people or to see themselves in any role other than preserving life and making it better.

So I'm still struggling with my own personal sense of morality on that one. And I have not arrived at a firm conviction one way or the other. I imagine many others also are conflicted on that one which is probably why it passed.

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... and there won't be a ban on abortion in Colorado and South Dakato (I'd started earlier).

Abortion and same-sex marriage are key issues for conservatives, but not when they loose one case, it seems.

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Its interesting how conservatives profess smaller government and laissez faire attitudes. EXCEPT for all the issues relating to a persons private life.
A bit disengenuous ID say

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@farmerman,

Did you have something specific in mind there Farmerman or are you speaking in broad undefinable generalities that you can't support? Or is it disingenuous to define what we believe to be right and what we believe to be wrong? I suppose liberals are different when they do that? If so, could you explain that please?

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@Foxfyre,

Quote:

. . . or are you speaking in broad undefinable generalities that you can't support?

Why should he adopt your rhetorical style? It hasn't worked for you.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

I've been struggling with that one a long time Maporsche. There is a part of me that wants a Dr. Kavorkian should I be in the situation that I have no quality of life remaining and am ready to go. But there is the conservative side of me that does not want doctors to be in the business of killing people or to see themselves in any role other than preserving life and making it better.

So I'm still struggling with my own personal sense of morality on that one. And I have not arrived at a firm conviction one way or the other. I imagine many others also are conflicted on that one which is probably why it passed.

Additionally, sick, old people who weren't in great pain might come under a certain amount of pressure from their families to commit suicide to save them money. The whole thing is a horrible slippery slope.

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@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

Additionally, sick, old people who weren't in great pain might come under a certain amount of pressure from their families to commit suicide to save them money. The whole thing is a horrible slippery slope.

Any source that this happened? In countries where assisted suicide is legal since a couple of years?

Or is/will be the procedure in the USA so laissez-faire that such won't be noted?

1 Reply

@Brandon9000,

Good point, Brandon. There is that sticky wicket that the right to die becomes a duty to die. Since I think the best society is one that celebrates and values life, I hope we never come to that. But I do remain conflicted over the general concept. I would like to think people should have the right to quit when there is absolutely no quality of life left and no chance it will be regained. Maybe if it was via court order? I don't know.

I'm still thinking on it.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Additionally, sick, old people who weren't in great pain might come under a certain amount of pressure from their families to commit suicide to save them money. The whole thing is a horrible slippery slope.

Any source that this happened? In countries where assisted suicide is legal since a couple of years?

Or is/will be the procedure in the USA so laissez-faire that such won't be noted?

Of course it won't be noted. The family pressure would usually be subtle.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Good point, Brandon. There is that sticky wicket that the right to die becomes a duty to die.

But certainly YOU have a source where this already happened?

I mean, there a lot online about the procedure e.g. in the Netherlands( voluntary euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide lawful since April 2002 but permitted by the courts since l984).

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@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

Of course it won't be noted. The family pressure would usually be subtle.

You seem to know a lot about the procedure .... or to have a very low opinion about doctors.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Of course it won't be noted. The family pressure would usually be subtle.

You seem to know a lot about the procedure.

No, it's just ordinary common sense. How in God's name are you going to know if someone who requests suicide has had subtle pressure applied? Once the state sanctions assisted suicide, who knows where it might end?

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@Brandon9000,

what a joke. stupid prejudice.

2 Replies

@Brandon9000,

Brandon9000 wrote:

No, it's just ordinary common sense. How in God's name are you going to know if someone who requests suicide has had subtle pressure applied?

Because the family doctor knows what a family does know: the family.

Brandon9000 wrote:

Once the state sanctions assisted suicide, who knows where it might end?

Well, when you look at situation in Switzerland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Sweden ... and how those countries ended - it really looks like if those are falling since years into a bottomless abyss, isn't it?

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@Walter Hinteler,

(Actually, I think that a good palliative care should be the first to be expanded before thinking to assist an suicide.

But people still should have a choice.

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@OGIONIK,

OGIONIK wrote:

what a joke. stupid prejudice.

Were you correct, I suspect you would have given an actual argument, as I did.

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@RexRed,

Finally, a reason to consider moving back to California.

2 Replies

California Voters Approve Gay-Marriage Ban

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