Who is the best pitcher of all time?

I was going to say Sandy Koufax too, though I don't know how high up on the list he would be.

I used to like Fernando Valenzuela a lot, but I know his stats aren't near top rung at all.

Uhhh...for the most part Rivera absolutely is dominating, and he's definitely an elite pitcher. All closers blow saves at one point or another.

When i read the name of the thread this what came to mind:

Nolan Ryan
Randy Johnson
Sandy Koufax

who was that one handed pitcher? cant remember his name but wasnt he pretty good?

Jim Abbott
his numbers aren't that great, until you consider he did it with one hand...

thats the playa... yea thats why think he's pretty dang good

What about Bob Gibson around 1967 and 1968? I weren't alive to see him, but the numbers are ridiculous. A 1.12 ERA with 13 shutouts in 1968? Crazy.

I do remember Orel Hershiser's scoreless inning streak in 1988. Not one of the best ever for his career, but certainly over a chunk of a season he was unbeatable.


Career-wise...

I've heard baseball people say that Nolan Ryan threw so many no-hitters because that's all he wanted to do -- so he was unwilling to give up a two-out single in order to save his best stuff for later in the game.

Now, of people I've seen, Clemens and Randy Johnson have been the best for the longest.

patiodog is right about Gibson. He was so dominating that year that they lowered the pitchers mound to give the batters a fighting chance.

The problem with a question like this is that we can only vote for those we've seen or read about recently. It's like when the fans vote for the 50 best players of all time, and they're all guys from the past 20 years. It's human nature...

I have to agree with you on that one D'artagnan. its a shame that those we havnt been able to see are left out in the cold and rain there were some great pitchers back in the day

Yeah, but it's still fun to discuss.

Did any of you guys ever see that video of the time Randy Johnson vaporized the bird with one of his pitches? That's some serious smoke he's throwin'.

yea i had it on my comp... oh it was great... now if only he could do that to chipper jones...

seed are u trying to pick a fight with d'art? :wink:

Hee hee...

I wonder about the mound... Got lowered in late 60s, the 70s saw the rise of the relief pitcher (including Mike Marshall's record number of appearances for LA, if I recomember right). I wonder if there's a connection between the two events.

no not at all... what makes you think that?

My first reaction to the question was: Sandy Koufax.
Of course that's because I saw his great WS performances as a child. And one is impressionable as a child.

My second choice was between Bob Gibson, Satchel Paige and Nolan Ryan.
But then, we can't really know how good Paige was, because of the racial divide.
The racial divide is also a reason against voting for old time greats none of us ever saw, like Walter Johnson or Cy Young.
Gibson was incredibly dominating for a few years, but Ryan lasted longer (I believe a no-hitter is more a matter of destiny than a matter of mastery: they don't make the difference). So I'll go with Ryan.
Third place for Gibson.

BTW, I don't think any closer is anywhere near the other greats.
It's become a different job, and a closer has, usually, about 2 less points in ERA than a starter.
When a closer is below 1.50 ERA for several seasons in a row, we'll talk again.

i dont think the dropping of the mound and the rise of the relief pitcher has anything to do besides being able to raise heir self confidence....

Chipper is my favorite Brave, but I'll forgive you, Seed...

oh im sorry... not a braves fan AT ALL... although is he a great player... just not a fan of the team or him... remember when he got popped in the mouth by that line drive a couple years back?

Baseball is a game of stats and no pitcher comes close to Cy Young.

No prob, Seed. Chipper and I happen to share the same first name...