Got a bible? Grab it and look at this.

SmokingFire wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Why would you worship...or pretend to love...a god who plans to punish some people by torturing them relentlessly FOR ALL THE REST OF ETERNITY?????

Why...because above all these things you listed God is still more loving and has more grace than you give to him. God gives all chance to come to Him, but it is man who slaps Him in His face. Most people fear judgement because they feel unworthy and fear punishment, the verdict of judgement is either guilty or innocent. God wishes all to be innocent and gives them ample oppertunity to repent and to be declared innocent, yet, man refuses. So if your guilty your guilty. And then will know that the punishment was hell, so...it is up to every man to accept or reject. You are trying to go against absolutes, whether you wish to accept it or not, the absolute doesn't change.

Yeah...I know why you worship the god, Smoke....because you are scared shytless of it.

Imagine loving a god that would conceive of a punishment that involves torturing someone relentlessly for all the rest of eternity!!!!

Even fairytale ogres aren't that disgusting.

Any reasonable look at things shows that you god is fiction...and not especially good fiction at that.

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You should fear the Lord, and i do, but i don't follow Him because i am afraid of Him. I if i was only a Christian becasue i was afriad then i wouldn't be Christian at all. And if i wasn't a real Christian it would bother me hearing you call my God horrible things.

and I think YOU are scared because you know there is a God somewhere, and to get your mind off your eternal punishment you are putting other peoples religions down. You should find a new hobby.

The punishment for sin is death. I can't be any clearer, thats just the way it goes. But God did send his only Son to die on a cross, and be tortured so we could live. I don't understand what you find revolting about that. It's the ultomate love story.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Why...because above all these things you listed God is still more loving and has more grace than you give to him. God gives all chance to come to Him, but it is man who slaps Him in His face. Most people fear judgement because they feel unworthy and fear punishment, the verdict of judgement is either guilty or innocent. God wishes all to be innocent and gives them ample oppertunity to repent and to be declared innocent, yet, man refuses. So if your guilty your guilty. And then will know that the punishment was hell, so...it is up to every man to accept or reject. You are trying to go against absolutes, whether you wish to accept it or not, the absolute doesn't change.

Yeah...I know why you worship the god, Smoke....because you are scared shytless of it.

Imagine loving a god that would conceive of a punishment that involves torturing someone relentlessly for all the rest of eternity!!!!

Even fairytale ogres aren't that disgusting.

Any reasonable look at things shows that you god is fiction...and not especially good fiction at that.[/quote]

Here's the deal frank, I am not scared of God but have a deep respect for the Man. I am not trying to convince anybody to believe in God, although I know He exists and it really doesn't matter to me if you do or not. Your words are just chaff in the wind my friend. And by you trying to make God a mere fairy tale is your deal and not mine. The thing is, my life is great, and in fact greater than it has ever been. I have tried to poisons of life and have found it all useless and vain, now, I live with purpose and destiny and you basically just exist to no end. You have no ability to comprehend the greatness of God, therefor you would rather discredit Him in fear of you being wrong. And if you would be wrong what would that imply? You chose rather to live ignorantly claiming that "you know that you don't know", well, that's the easy way of living and with absolutely no consequence. So you can keep on babbling and jabbling with your point, but it comes to no end. It serves no purpose and has no value. You seem like a wise man since I have read your responses, but your wisdom is only the start of foolishness to God. Guess what my friend, I'll be praying for you.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Bullshyt. A typo does not constitute any kind of duplicity.

If you want to speak of any of these things...we can do it.

Let start with the first one. Let's limit ourselves just to that one...and discuss it until we reach an agreement on what your god was saying.

I am saying that you god was saying that slaves could be owned...that they could be treated as chattels...and that they could be kept as slaves for the entire of their lives.

What do you say your god is saying?

Well no, you see in that specific verse in the bible it speaks of the year of jubilee the 7 years. After 7 years all slaves must be made free, that is that and here is how you buy slaves in the OT...

Quote:

Leviticus 25:39
'If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave.

This is how you "buy" your slaves...

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....it doesn't say anything about his sister or his daughters, now does it?

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SmokingFire wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Bullshyt. A typo does not constitute any kind of duplicity.

If you want to speak of any of these things...we can do it.

Let start with the first one. Let's limit ourselves just to that one...and discuss it until we reach an agreement on what your god was saying.

I am saying that you god was saying that slaves could be owned...that they could be treated as chattels...and that they could be kept as slaves for the entire of their lives.

What do you say your god is saying?

Well no, you see in that specific verse in the bible it speaks of the year of jubilee the 7 years. After 7 years all slaves must be made free, that is that and here is how you buy slaves in the OT...

Well you are wrong again. That provision only applies to Hebrews kept as slaves...not slaves bought and paid for. They, as the verses I quoted, can be kept as slaves perpetually.

Quote:

Leviticus 25:39
'If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave.

This is how you "buy" your slaves...[/quote]

This is only how you buy Hebrews as slaves...not how you buy foreigners.

For all your big mouth, SF, you really don't know much about the Bible.

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SmokingFire wrote:

Here's the deal frank, I am not scared of God but have a deep respect for the Man. I am not trying to convince anybody to believe in God, although I know He exists...

Yeah, sure you do. In a pig's ass!

Quote:

... You have no ability to comprehend the greatness of God, therefor you would rather discredit Him in fear of you being wrong.

Still trying to brown nose your god, I see. Hey...considering its barbaric nature, I don't blame you.

Quote:

And if you would be wrong what would that imply? You chose rather to live ignorantly claiming that "you know that you don't know", well, that's the easy way of living and with absolutely no consequence.

No, SF, it is called telling the truth...something you theists talk about all the time, but seldom pay any real attention to.

Quote:

So you can keep on babbling and jabbling with your point, but it comes to no end. It serves no purpose and has no value. You seem like a wise man since I have read your responses, but your wisdom is only the start of foolishness to God. Guess what my friend, I'll be praying for you.

Well thank you. I always appreciate when a theist says he/she will pray for me. It shows they like me.

I like you too. I don't get into this "praying" stuff..but I do hope things go well for you too.

Merry Christmas...to you and your family.

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Frank, i was just wondering. If you don't pray, who do you ask things of?

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koodles4you wrote:

Frank, i was just wondering. If you don't pray, who do you ask things of?

I often ask things of Nancy...and of clerks in supermarkets...and the guy down at the gas station...and the conductor on the train.

Why do you ask?

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koodles4you wrote:

If you don't pray, who do you ask things of?

Do you use prayer only for asking for things? Do you ever use it as a sort of meditation?

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i was just curious.
And if i'm ever really distressed about something i'll talk to God about it, not always to ask for things. And no, i do not consider prayer meditation. Though in the Bible it does talk about the meditation of our hearts...i'll have to think about that.

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koodles4you, I think we can ask for whatever we want. Sometimes this kind of prayer is the only way people learn to pray.

Meditation is a communing with God, or a listening. There are tons of books on this subject and it is not a thing anybody does lightly, i.e., a negative mind would be meditating on this negativity. Whatever we think about constantly we attract to us. Eventually in meditation the idea is not to think at all.

I still love the small book, "Way of the Peaceful Warrior," by Ken Millman. It's good for young people wondering where one may go from religion, or how we may bring about some things the bible tells us we can do.

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Koodles and Sunlover...

...fact is, though, there may not even be any gods...let alone the kind of petty god you two seem to envision.

Interesting superstitions you folks have.

Thanks for sharing.

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Sunlover, i didn't say we couldn't ask for whatever we want. I don't know where you would have got that. i just said i don't always ask for things. hmm...
Superstitions? what do you mean by that?

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koodles4you wrote:

Sunlover, i didn't say we couldn't ask for whatever we want. I don't know where you would have got that. i just said i don't always ask for things. hmm...
Superstitions? what do you mean by that?

Before replying to your question, Koodles, I decided to read over my posts. I wanted to see what I could point to that might answer your question without adding anything. Unfortunately, what I discovered was that I had let my anger at things really unrelated to this thread...get the better of my mouth while posting.

I have been exceptionally rude in several posts.

I apologize.

It will not happen again in this thread.

Now to your question. "Superstitions? what do you mean by that?"

By that, Koodles, I mean that you are not dealing with something exceedingly important to the issue being discussed...specifically...perhaps there is no God...or even if there is, perhaps the God is nothing like the God you seem to think exists. Perhaps everything you and the others are tossing back and forth as descriptions of God...is nothing more than superstition.

Deal with that, Koodles.

Talk to me about it.

THE POSSIBILITY EXISTS THAT THERE IS NO GOD...OR THAT EVEN IF THERE IS...THE GOD IS NOTHING LIKE THE GOD YOU SEEM TO THINK EXISTS.

Yet you are arguing about properties of a God.

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koodles4you wrote:

i was just curious.
And if i'm ever really distressed about something i'll talk to God about it, not always to ask for things. And no, i do not consider prayer meditation. Though in the Bible it does talk about the meditation of our hearts...i'll have to think about that.

Koodles prayer is open communication with God, and meditation is basically questioning the things revealed to you through God. Now, many people talk to God but never listen to what he says, have you ever tried to still your thoughts and just perceive in your spirit what He's telling you. Meditation is an important factor in your spiritual life....David did it, Peter did it Jesus did it.

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SmokingFire wrote:

koodles4you wrote:
i was just curious.
And if i'm ever really distressed about something i'll talk to God about it, not always to ask for things. And no, i do not consider prayer meditation. Though in the Bible it does talk about the meditation of our hearts...i'll have to think about that.

Koodles prayer is open communication with God, and meditation is basically questioning the things revealed to you through God. Now, many people talk to God but never listen to what he says, have you ever tried to still your thoughts and just perceive in your spirit what He's telling you. Meditation is an important factor in your spiritual life....David did it, Peter did it Jesus did it.

Once again...this is pure speculation...because there may be no god...and for certain, there may be no god such as you are supposing exists.

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i didn't say i don't meditate. the question was do you consider prayer a meditation? And i don't. i think they are two seperate things.

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koodles, sorry, whatever I said. I can only speak from myself.

When I pray I may ask for strength, wisdom, etc., but I no longer ask for things though I certainly did at one time. In meditation I try to "feel" that I have these attributes. I think we all have all 12 of the attributes of Christ within us, but each has to be awakened. How else, but through meditation. Is there another way?

Maybe Frank knows of another "way" ?

Frank, what did you mean when you refer to "God" as superstition?

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sunlover wrote:

Maybe Frank knows of another "way" ?

Frank, what did you mean when you refer to "God" as superstition?

I answered that up above. Just go back five posts...and look at what I said.

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