Got a bible? Grab it and look at this.

As someone who is only just forming their faith, i think it has to be taken literally, and has to be blind. Faith is an instinctive feeling that's enhanced my life. It's made me feel completely connected to nature and those around me. It demands a loss of ego - perhaps we are not the most important aspect of all existance. Modern medicine not with standing, man's ability to rationalise has distracted from our, in my opinion, more valuable, instinctive sense. faith is a matter of re-tuning and becoming an active, connected part of all life.

faith
Exactly what is it that you have faith in? What I have a hard time understanding, is why people feel that they need to cling to God, religion, and the bible.

Again...what is it that you have faith in? And what is faith?

Just belief really. So you have faith that God will do ....What?

If your answer is that you believe that God will hold true what is written in the bible, then what you are saying is that you believe that you had better live a good life or you will get spanked and sent to bed without dessert.

That spanking is not just that you get to go to Hell, but that you won't go to heaven.

If you know anything about Psychology, you know that the two greatest motivators for people are our desire to gain pleasure and avoid pain.

In my opinion the political and religious hustlers that wrote the bible knew their psychology well and for centuries their Bible has scared people into having this "faith".

You made some good points, Banks...and welcome to A2K.

I make a distinction between "belief" and "faith" that I would like to recommend to you for consideration.

I see "beliefs" (in the religious context) as guesses about unknowns.

I see "faith" as insistence that those guesses are more than guesses.

I really like those definitions, Frank. You've probably given them before, but I don't recall reading them.

good point
Good point Frank.

I have been working on letting go and letting faith take control for 10 years and I haven't got there yet. I must not be doing something right. I have often wondered how you can force letting the spirit take control.

On that note I have often wondered how you can force belief, if you can't force belief, why would you go to hell if you don't believe?

(I believe, it is just something I have wondered about from time to time)

SShoot I dont know all thet yer say is rite. but revrend ronnie he says god is gonna judge all of us ifn we dont go ter assembly n church we gonna go ter hell. So me n mama we go n we put 4 dollars in the box n revreend ronnie sais we gonna get seats on the rite hand side of jesus . so yer know we gonna be tickled real gud on jugment day

bm

Religion is just another man-made organization that has been successful in taking money from its flock. God and jesus are all man-made creations; they do not exist. Don't forget, gods were created by man long before Hebrews or christians wrote the Torah or the bible. There's something in the human brain that desires to believe in some omnipotent "god."

Hey everyone, I've come back from my contemplative sabbatical, locked and loaded. Glad to see everyone's still here; I've missed the debates we get into. Speaking of... :wink:

Frank: A) Good to see you again, I've missed reading your posts. B) I have a slightly different distinction I'd like to share with you: Instead of seeing beliefs as guesses, and faith as the insistence, I see belief as the insistence, and faith as the codification of those insistences into a religion. The guesses you were talking about are, to me, synonymous with the hypotheses you and I have bandied about on many occasions, such as my "three" theory. In the past, I shared your hierarchy, but after a discussion that I believe was actually with you, I modified my definitions

Again, it's good to see you again, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Good to see that you are back, Tal. If this thread revives...we'll talk more.