How much of Support for Israel is based on Biblical Mythology?

In this case, the accusation of anti-semitism for people arguing against the expansion of settlements is an unfounded ad-hominem. I will not that any of these argument can be disputed (Oralloy shows up quickly to dispute each one just on principle). But the point is that the arguments against the settlements are well founded in Western cultural values and international law (i.e. the Geneva Accords).

Oralboy

In my opinion, the settlements are designed to make a two-state solution impossible. That is certainly the aim of the Israeli right wing (and polls will tell you this). They do not want to cede any territory.

And I think the settlements will have exactly this result. As the settlements expand, Israel has more reason to not compromise.

The notion that Muslims have any sort of legitimate claim to land that they steal from someone else is as preposterous as the idea that the Nazis had a legitimate claim to the artwork they looted.

You cannot constantly proclaim to be this great teller of facts when you always manipulate the truth.

First, Palestinians are not exclusively Muslim. They are not defined by their religion.

People lived on that land before Judaism was established. People lived on that land before the Jewish kingdoms. Obviously people lived on that land after the fall of those kingdoms. The people who lived there before Judaism was established are not irrelevant in any discussion of the population indigenous to the region. Not all the people in Canaan became Jewish and those people did not disappear once Jewish kings took control.

Jewish or polytheistic people of the time who converted to Christianity and Islam do not become removed from the area because they changed religion.

Sergio DellaPergola, an Israeli demographer, estimates that in the first century BCE the majority of people living in the region were Jewish. He excludes unaffiliated people in the region though I'm sure they existed. Between the first century and fifth century, the Romans had significant influence which led many people in the region, Jews and others, to convert to Christianity. DellaPergola estimates that by the fifth century, Christians were the majority in the region.

These people who converted are still indigenous the region.

DellaPergola estimates that Muslims became the majority by the twelfth century. As we all know, that did not change until the founding of the Israeli state.

All of these people I've talked about, whether they converted or remained Jewish, can claim indigenous status.

It's not like the Muslims from the heart of Arabia came and completely wiped out the Semitic people already living there.

Such a claim requires evidence that you don't have.

I think the Palestinians are defined by Islam.

I do realize that some Palestinians are Xian, but Xians tend to be second class citizens in Islamic societies. And I suspect that Palestinian Xians would be treated even worse if they were not seen as a useful propaganda weapon against western Xians.

oralloy wrote:

I think the Palestinians are defined by Islam.

I do realize that some Palestinians are Xian, but Xians tend to be second class citizens in Islamic societies. And I suspect that Palestinian Xians would be treated even worse if they were not seen as a useful propaganda weapon against western Xians.

Why are you neglecting the Palestine Christians?

oralloy wrote:

I think the Palestinians are defined by Islam.

I do realize that some Palestinians are Xian, but Xians tend to be second class citizens in Islamic societies. And I suspect that Palestinian Xians would be treated even worse if they were not seen as a useful propaganda weapon against western Xians.

Why are you neglecting the Palestine Christians?

The title of this thread, in my opinion, presupposes that the bible is mythology.

The fact is, the Bible IS mythology.

InfraBlue wrote:

...The Ashkenazim, from whom Zionism sprang, exhibit little genealogy originating from the Middle East let alone Palestine.

DNA analysis of Jewish male Ashkenazim finds a high percentage with Y (male) chromosomes from the middle east. A high percentage of the X (female) chromosomes comes from European indigenous (pagan) females. The theory is that early migrating Jews had sons marry out with the pagan women (not enough Jewish women in the small group of Jewish traders in the hinterland of pagan Europe).

You see, Jews are just a Hebrew/Gentile hybrid that practice the religion of the Hebrews. And, due to marrying within that gene pool, they inbred certain epigenetic traits, not to mention other regular genetic traits.

Please promulgate current research, rather than popular beliefs of the culture/society.

You're quoting the earlier, politically motivated research, and conflating "Middle Eastern" with "Hebrew" is a typical obfuscatory ploy.

Go peddle your prejudiced propaganda somewhere else.

InfraBlue wrote:

This is not true. At best, some of the Israelis trace their roots to the Middle East in general, not Palestine specifically. The Ashkenazim, from whom Zionism sprang, exhibit little genealogy originating from the Middle East let alone Palestine.

This simplistic position conflates Jewish nationalism with religious mythology, the idea that all Jews are from Palestine. One thing is the religion. Quite another thing is the people who follow that religion or have ancestors who did. The truth of the matter is that the Israeli Zionists originated from the countries that they inhabited before they emigrated to Palestine.

The fact that the Jews were forced from their homeland against their will does not in any way invalidate their claim to their homeland.

InfraBlue wrote:

Begging the question, however, the Palestinians have much more of a right to Palestine than people claiming ancient ancestry from there.

The notion that Muslims have any sort of legitimate claim to land that they steal from someone else is as preposterous as the idea that the Nazis had a legitimate claim to the artwork they looted.

InfraBlue wrote:

This idea of a moral basis for accepting Israel's right to exist doesn't hold water, as it were.

The Jews have a right to live in their ancient homeland whether you like it or not.