192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:21 am
@georgeob1,
You don't think there is a substantive difference in posting articles that challenge your POV or beliefs versus say, simply calling individual posters "cheese-eaters" (among many worse invective)?

Do you think that both equally are worthy of debate?
blatham
 
  5  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:23 am
Here's a pattern that continues
Quote:
Trump taps former Texas Gov. Rick Perry to head Energy Department he once vowed to abolish
link
That is, extremist ideologues usually tied into very big corporate money setting to the task of dismantling the institutions of government that Americans, as voters supporting such institutions, have built up over the last century. And they are setting to this under cover of deceits to bait and then switch. How many seniors who voted for Trump grasp what is intended for Medicare? Or Medicaid? How many, newly insured or protected under the ACA conceive properly of their new futures? How many get what could, and likely will, happens as a consequence of deregulation of environmental laws? And that's to list just a few such areas of concern.

The really serious problem in all of this is how difficult it will be to rebuild these institutions once they've been dismantled or made powerless.

The US is setting out now on a path which has no precedents in the free world.
maporsche
 
  2  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:24 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Here's a pattern that continues
Quote:
Trump taps former Texas Gov. Rick Perry to head Energy Department he once vowed to abolish
link
That is, extremist ideologues usually tied into very big corporate money setting to the task of dismantling the institutions of government that Americans, as voters supporting such institutions, have built up over the last century. And they are setting to this under cover of deceits to bait and then switch. How many seniors who voted for Trump grasp what is intended for Medicare? Or Medicaid? How many, newly insured or protected under the ACA conceive properly of their new futures? How many get what could, and likely will, happens as a consequence of deregulation of environmental laws? And that's to list just a few such areas of concern.

The really serious problem in all of this is how difficult it will be to rebuild these institutions once they've been dismantled or made powerless.

The US is setting out now on a path which has no precedents in the free world.



"These are the exact same decisions that Hillary Clinton would have made. There is NO DIFFERENCE between her and Trump!!" - Stein/Johnson voters.
revelette1
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:30 am
The Real Reason Trump's denial is so worrying

I am not sure why, but I am not able to copy and paste from there today. However, it is a good piece from Vox.
blatham
 
  4  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:31 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Shall I then conclude that you are addressing others and that you don't regard my disagreement with, what I find to be your many unfounded statements, and the highly selective partisam material you post here in such quantities, at all insulting?

Isn't that what I just said? I have no problem with disagreements. They're inevitable even among folks of comparable political leanings. What destroys political commentary (true on every board I've ever been on and that's a lot of them) is tone and intention. Where insult is the mode driven by the intention to make another feel smaller or to shut up then I'm not a fan. Because that stuff is the worst of us. And that's where I'll leave this with you.
revelette1
 
  4  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:31 am
The next four years are going to be a nightmare.
blatham
 
  5  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:34 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
"These are the exact same decisions that Hillary Clinton would have made. There is NO DIFFERENCE between her and Trump!!" - Stein/Johnson voters.

That species of intellectual laziness drives me around the bend. Though to be fair, even if a lot of us grasped how bad Trump in office might be, he is exceeding most expectations.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:34 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
Also, do you think Exxon or Trump Enterprises ever hired an economist or two?

Exxon, for sure. Trump, I can't imagine why. Accountants by the truckload, indeed. Relatively, Trump is a car salesman and Exxon is GM.
Are you soeaking from your own knowledge and experience here or is this just somethinbg you pulled out of your ass?

blatham wrote:

For secretary of state? Someone who has demonstrated through his or her life, concern for the prosperity, health and well-being of the citizens of nations and who has the capabilities of directing interactions and negotiations with other national entities and players. Trump's PR for the Exxon CEO points to the last part of that but it is profoundly inadequate. That dude's expertise is doing whatever is necessary for Exxon to pull as much oil out of the ground as they see possible, including support of some of the ugliest regimes in the world.
I think the record of History says you are dead wrong on this point. From Machiavelli to Talleyrand and Bismark and others, the models point more to Trump's standards than yours.

I'll readily agree that John Kerry appears to many to meet the credentials of the first part of your arbitrary definition, but I believe that is an illusion, and that he is merely a self-inflated pompous fool. Certainly his performance in office strongly suggests the truth of that observation.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:41 am
@revelette1,
From your Vox link
Quote:
The spin war President-elect Donald Trump and his subordinates are waging over the question of Russian election-related hacking is raising serious questions about how his administration will function — because they’re sending the message that the White House will refuse to accept facts that doesn’t meet its own propaganda narrative.

That Trump and crowd (though it is far more broadly spread throughout the modern GOP) were playing a straight up propaganda game, completely careless of the truth and facts, has been long evident. But now, as we get to the nitty gritty of governing details and appointments and as we begin to see the real changes being wrought and all with the same sort of propagandist cover stories, attempts to bully critical or potentially critical voices, and blatant lies, more people are having to face the very uncomfortable reality of what's going on. God knows what's up the road but it ain't going to be good.
giujohn
 
  0  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:45 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Nothing you posted refuted my post. Try again.


I always suspected that English was not your first language.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  0  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:46 am
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

It appears the United States of America will now be protecting and defending Exxon Mobile's oil interests throughout the world.

Trump picks ExxonMobil CEO Tillerson as choice for secretary of state


Whew...well it's about time, huh?
0 Replies
 
Frugal1
 
  -1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:47 am
@revelette1,
Yes it's going to be nightmare for anti-American liberals, and I bet it extends well beyond 8 years.

You are still welcome to sit in the back of the bus.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:50 am
@blatham,
I believe you are merely reacting badly to a dose of your own signature material. Most of us admire more one who can take a bit of what he dishes out so profusely.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:51 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Though to be fair, even if a lot of us grasped how bad Trump in office might be, he is exceeding most expectations.


the Stock Market agrees he is exceeding expectations, just not the way you folks thought it would be.

Boom! Trump rally carries stocks to new records
blatham
 
  3  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:54 am
One handy metric we'll have up the road just a little ways is watching to what degree Republicans who wish to quell the Russia hacking story (and hide adverse findings) will be how much they push Trump's propaganda line that the CIA got Iraq wrong. As we know, the CIA was pushed relentlessly by Cheney and Addington and others in that office to warp intel findings. It was this political meddling that gave us the presentation of "truth" we received at that time.

Frugal1
 
  0  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:54 am
After talking with Trump, Bill Gates likens president-elect to JFK
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  1  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 09:57 am
@blatham,
I'm still waiting for one of you leftists to explain EXACTLY how the Russians influenced this election. If they did, you should easily be able to articulate it concisely.
Frugal1
 
  0  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 10:00 am
@giujohn,
It must have been that reset button 0bama & Hillary came up with...
blatham
 
  2  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 10:02 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
the Stock Market agrees

Current and temporary stock market tendencies aren't a great place to hang your hat, McG. As some folks are likely to remind you when the wind changes, which it always does.
ehBeth
 
  4  
Tue 13 Dec, 2016 10:04 am
@blatham,
this

blatham wrote:
I have no problem with disagreements. They're inevitable even among folks of comparable political leanings. What destroys political commentary (true on every board I've ever been on and that's a lot of them) is tone and intention. Where insult is the mode driven by the intention to make another feel smaller or to shut up then I'm not a fan.


One of the things I used to really love about Abuzz and A2K was the opportunity to discuss things with people who have different viewpoints and opinions. I learned a lot. I changed my opinion about things based on information that was well-presented and well argued.

When there is nothing left but insults - or posts that seem to just be carrying devices for insults - there is nothing interesting left for me.

I was still reading a lot of political threads but each day there seem to be fewer posts without direct or implied insults. There's nothing challenging about that IMNSHO.

Anyone can be insulting. I can be wonderfully insulting to others. I can be nasty. There's no big trick or gift in that.

Not everyone can be intellectually challenging. Not everyone can frame a good argument. That ability is a gift.

We've lost so many of our interesting, stimulating, encouraging and challenging (across the spectrum) posters over the past few years.

Are new posters with positive approaches to presenting and discussing information/ideas/opinions coming in and being encouraged to post? One of the reasons I do still come in to read - hoping to find a newbie to encourage. Are they here? are they reading and deciding against posting?

I'm not a Susy Sunshine that thinks there were never insults/stupid fights at A2k in the past but the balance has shifted and I miss the high of reading a great clear argument from someone with a different opinion that doesn't have an insult tucked in somewhere.
 

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