192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 02:05 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Were German Jews chased around and attacked with military weapons in the middle of cities?
You're making a sad joke, isn't it?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 02:06 am
@oralloy,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Btw: in the chemical agent factory in Dyhernfurth an der Oder, codenamed "Hochwerk", at least 12,000 metric tons of this agent were manufactured between 1942 and 1945 - it just couldn't be used to various (known) reasons.

Are we talking about a weapon of war here? Which agent are you referring to? Mustard gas? Sarin?
[/quote]Tabun. (Mustard gas and Sarin were produced in a lower number)
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 02:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
You're making a sad joke, isn't it?

No. I am legitimately unaware of Germany turning their military weapons against their own cities in an effort to attack Jews.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 02:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Tabun. (Mustard gas and Sarin were produced in a lower number)

OK. And did Germany bomb their own cities with Tabun, Mustard gas, or Sarin (or any other military weapon) in their efforts to kill Jews?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 02:37 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
There is certainly folly in his trying to compare the the magnitude of different atrocities, but claims that he either was denying the Holocaust or was ignorant of it are just silly.

I actually agree with you about this.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 03:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
And "holocaust centers" are and were known as 'concentration camps'.
This phrasing is not easily explainable. It really is one of those WTF? things. I have to presume he was just so flustered that his brain wasn't working. Unless (though I'd doubt it) there's some history of alt-right types using this phrasing in holocaust-denial literature. If that is the case, it will come out quickly.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:03 am
Quote:
The release of the dossier at a White House briefing on Tuesday marked a striking shift by President Trump, who entered office praising President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia but now appears bent on pressuring him.
NYT
I might be convinced that Trump is not just running a big con here to distract from the investigations going on re ties between him and his people with Russia and to manipulate the media narrative/coverage of his administration if...
1) Bannon and his associates are tossed
2) the administration and the GOP cease obstructing those investigations.

Otherwise, I see no reason to conclude this is anything but dishonest.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:11 am
Winner of our weekly No ****, Sherlock! award (see bolded graph)
Quote:
As governor, Robert Bentley would quote the Bible before the Alabama Legislature and say that God had elevated him to the State Capitol. In his dermatology practice, in the city where he was a Baptist deacon, he sometimes witnessed to patients. And when he was a first-time candidate for statewide office, his campaign headquarters were often filled with volunteers from local churches.

This is a state that knows well how mixing faith and politics can lead to disappointment. When Mr. Bentley on Monday resigned from office and pleaded guilty to two misdemeanors in the wake of the sex scandal that ended his 50-year marriage, his downfall reflected both enduring and contemporary challenges for evangelical voters.

...But others said it had become clear that for conservative Christians, the cultural and political issues that define modern conservative politics mattered at least as much as moral piety. That was why, they suggested, Mr. Bentley was able to cling to his job for nearly 13 months after his reputation as a paragon of probity came under fire.

“The idea that moral hypocrisy hurts you among evangelical voters is not true, if you’re sound on all of the fundamentals,” said Wayne Flynt, an ordained Baptist minister and one of Alabama’s pre-eminent historians. “Being sound on the fundamentals depends on what the evangelical community has decided the fundamentals have become. At this time, what is fundamental is hating liberals, hating Obama, hating abortion and hating same-sex marriage.”
NYT
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:27 am
Authoritarianism has two faces: (1) the personality type who desires the autonomous power to direct and control others for the sake of having and using that power and (2) those people who are more comfortable living in an authoritarian state/community. The following letter to the Times from a reader responding to the United Air removal of a passenger is an example of (2).

Quote:
The man was disorderly and refusing to obey airline staff and police instructions. What were the cops supposed to do? Meekly tell him to have a nice day and walk off the plane? When the police are called in most cases like this they take some kind of action. This gentleman bears the responsibility for how this scene played out.

There was another such example in the Rick Perlstein piece that hightor linked yesterday where a contemporary said about the Kent State shootings, "Those students who were shot [and killed] bear all the responsibility because they should have listened to the National Guard's orders" (paraphrased).

And we see it now in the frequent suggestions that police shootings that result in death or assaults on citizens are justified because the shootings and assaults are perpetrated by police.

It is an axiomatic (and a tautological) formulation - authorities are right because they are authorities. And that axiomatic formulation is used by both types (1) and (2) above.
hightor
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:36 am
@blatham,
Oh yeah, he was scrambling. I think he was really shaken because in his thinking, bringing up the comparison with Hitler implied that the Nazis had used poison gas on captive inmates. Oh well — best to stay clear of those sorts of comparisons. Especially when you're speaking on a microphone.

"Holocaust centers" — I think this may enter the lexicon.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:41 am
Bill O'Reilly is about to begin a vacation. "I've been very busy for a long while and now I'd just like to spend more time with my loofah" WP
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:48 am
@blatham,
Are these "types" a personal formulation? Not that they don't make sense, just wondering.
That comfort you speak of that some have - with being subjugated under absolute authority- it makes them always take the side of the police. That comfort unfortunately combines nicely with little things like implicit bias and white privilege.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:49 am
@hightor,
Quote:
"Holocaust centers" — I think this may enter the lexicon.
We might see it on ADL press release letterhead.

My empathy for this guy is real but very, very much overwhelmed by all the reasons we have for not feeling empathy for him. He's been too complicit in the ugliness of the man he works for. The WH public relations crew rise up then fall quickly below the waves because their job is impossible. I expect he'll be gone in a bit.
snood
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 04:56 am
@blatham,
For me to have empathy for someone I generally have to find some aspect of them to be empathetic. Do you find anything empathetic about Spicer, besides of course the fact he's homo sapiens? I find him to be thoroughly disgusting from what I can see - a vapid careerist with limited skill as a press secretary and very questionable scruples that allow him to lie and repeat lies effortlessly.
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 05:00 am
@snood,
Quote:
Are these "types" a personal formulation? Not that they don't make sense, just wondering.
It's based on the work of Bob Altemeyer, retired prof of psychology at the University of Manitoba. I bumped into his work in John Dean's Conservatives Without Conscience.
Quote:
That comfort you speak of that some have - with being subjugated under absolute authority- it makes them always take the side of the police. That comfort unfortunately combines nicely with little things like implicit bias and white privilege.
Yes. I think most of us probably began to see how this stuff works in human populations while we were in school where some set of that school population would fall into comfortable conformity with authority (and demand it of others) while a different set of that population resisted it. Certainly that was the case for me.

And yes, racial bias or other sorts of "us/them" conceptions and bias overlap with this very commonly.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 05:06 am
@snood,
Quote:
Do you find anything empathetic about Spicer, besides of course the fact he's homo sapiens
My empathy is, as I said, seriously limited. I've been flustered and have said stupid things because my brain was firing chaotically and then been terribly embarrassed by what had just happened. All horrible enough. But then add in having it happen in front of millions.... yikes.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 05:11 am
@blatham,
Quote:
[...]
According to Politico, after backlash from Jewish groups over the comments, Spicer called the offices of Sheldon Adelson to apologize: "Sean called shortly after and said he made a terrible mistake and apologized if he was offensive," a statement for the Republican mega-donor said.

Before Spicer made his apology, Israeli Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz called Spicer's comment "serious and outrageous... We have to demand that he apologize, or resign," Katz tweeted.

After the apology, Katz told Army Radio that "I thought it was my responsibility as a Jew and the son of a holocaust survivor to respond and commended these statements. I thought that Israel should demand he apologize or quit and overnight I see that he did apologize and we welcome this."

The Anne Frank Center demanded President Donald Trump to fire Spicer for "engaging in Holocaust denial."

"Spicer's statement is the most evil slur upon a group of people we have ever heard from a White House press secretary," the Center's Executive Director Steven Goldstein said, adding that Spicer lacks the integrity to serve in his role.
... ... ..
Source
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 05:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Well, he is going to have to grovel on this stuff. As I said, I suspect he was just screwing up out of being overwhelmed and, for sure, from a probably disqualifying level of incompetence. But if there is a history of the alt-right dudes around the administration which ties them more directly to white supremacist tendencies to deny the Holocaust, then it's a different matter.

At this point, I think the protests you note and the demands made are not justified.
Lash
 
  0  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 05:31 am
The Press Secretary needs to think a hell of a lot faster on his feet than Spicer can.
He's probably still employed because no one else is willing to be Trump's spokesperson. Can you imagine that being your job??!
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 12 Apr, 2017 05:40 am
@Lash,
On the other hand though, do any of us want to see a Trump spokesperson who actually has the capacity to operate effectively in that role given that this "effectiveness" will have to include lying and bullying with complete aplomb such that the media and citizens are manipulated competently?
0 Replies
 
 

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