192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 02:40 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Read the article posted above and tell me that it says what you've just stated...


Your exact claim was that "nothing of that article is really true." Now you're moving the goal posts to claim that the article is trying "to make it appear far worse than what is actually happening or being said" - which is obviously an entirely different claim.

Of course, you're unable to cite a single example of what you would consider a lie or an exaggeration, and instead resort to broad generalizations and to smearing it as "fake news."

Apparently, your yardstick for calling something "fake" is not whether something is factually true or not - it's merely whether or not you like or dislike the emphasis that's being put on something that is verifiably true.

If you don't like it, it's "fake."


Holy ****, I have to actually do this?

old europe wrote:

NYT leading with the headline about the investigation on Trump's Russia ties:

Quote:
F.B.I. Is Investigating Trump’s Russia Ties, Comey Confirms

The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, took the extraordinary step on Monday of announcing that the F.B.I. is investigating whether members of President Trump’s campaign colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election.


Oh my lordy lordy! The sky is going to come falling down for Trump Now!!! What was so extraordinary about it? It's been known for a while that the FBI was doing that.

Quote:
Mr. Comey’s remarks before the House Intelligence Committee created a treacherous political moment for Mr. Trump, who has insisted that “Russia is fake news” that was cooked up by his political opponents to undermine his presidency. Mr. Comey placed a criminal investigation at the doorstep of the White House and said agents would pursue it “no matter how long that takes.”


Complete lie and exaggeration. "a treacherous political moment for Mr. Trump"? Seriously? This is what passes for news at the Times now? I wouldn't wipe my ass with that news because I would be afraid of the lies leaking from it.

Quote:
Mr. Comey also dismissed Mr. Trump’s claim that he was wiretapped by his predecessor during the campaign, a sensational but unfounded accusation that has served as a distraction in the public debate over Russian election interference.


No he didn't. He said there was no evidence. Sensational and unfounded... it's that added editorialization that makes it fake.

Quote:
The New York Times and other news organizations have reported the existence of the investigation into the Trump campaign and its relationship with Russia, but the White House dismissed those reports as politically motivated and rallied political allies to rebut them. Mr. Comey’s testimony on Monday was the first public acknowledgment of the case. The F.B.I. typically discloses its investigations only in the rare circumstances when officials believe it is in the public interest.


It's been reported since last November. Who are they kidding?

Quote:
“This is one of those circumstances,” Mr. Comey said.

[...]
One of those circumstances is being called before a congressional committee... Making it sound alrming and ominous is fake news.

Quote:
American intelligence agencies concluded in January that the President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia personally ordered a covert effort to hurt Hillary Clinton’s chances and aid Mr. Trump. That included the hacking of political targets including the Democratic National Committee and releasing embarrassing emails through the website WikiLeaks.


Not something said during today's grilling. This is why it's fake news.

Quote:
Mr. Comey said the F.B.I. was “investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts.”

[...]


The only bit of actual news in this entire article. An investigation does not infer guilt or innocence.

Quote:
It's going to be interestesting to see how this plays out. Conservatives were arguing that Clinton was unfit to be president, just based on Comey confirming that the FBI was reviewing additional emails pertinent to the case of Hillary Clinton’s email server.

Here we have the same guy publicly acknowledging that the FBI is investigating not just the issue of Russia interfering in the 2016 election, but the Trump campaign actually coordinating with Russia to influence the election - all of that in the face of Trump's straight out denial and claims that any reports about possible Trump campaign ties to the Kremlin were "fake news."


Trump is correct. It is fake news.
old europe
 
  6  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 03:39 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Holy ****, I have to actually do this?


Sure you do. It's on the one making the claim to provide evidence. Pretty basic concept.

McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
F.B.I. Is Investigating Trump’s Russia Ties, Comey Confirms

The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, took the extraordinary step on Monday of announcing that the F.B.I. is investigating whether members of President Trump’s campaign colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election.


Oh my lordy lordy! The sky is going to come falling down for Trump Now!!! What was so extraordinary about it? It's been known for a while that the FBI was doing that.


And yet, for the past months since these investigations have first been reported, there was no public confirmation of that.

As Comey himself said, "our practice is not to confirm the existence of ongoing investigations, especially those investigations that involve classified matters, but in unusual circumstances where it is in the public interest, it may be appropriate to do so as Justice Department policies recognize. This is one of those circumstances."

Paraphrasing the word "unusual" by using the word "extraordinary" hardly constitutes a lie.

McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
Mr. Comey’s remarks before the House Intelligence Committee created a treacherous political moment for Mr. Trump, who has insisted that “Russia is fake news” that was cooked up by his political opponents to undermine his presidency. Mr. Comey placed a criminal investigation at the doorstep of the White House and said agents would pursue it “no matter how long that takes.”


Complete lie and exaggeration. "a treacherous political moment for Mr. Trump"? Seriously? This is what passes for news at the Times now? I wouldn't wipe my ass with that news because I would be afraid of the lies leaking from it.


Trump tweeted this morning that "The Democrats made up and pushed the Russian story" and that it was "FAKE NEWS." Comey and Rogers confirmed only hours later that they were actually investigating the "Russian story."

Maybe it's your opinion that all of this is completely normal, and that it's completely proper for the President of the United States of America to make false statements of fact, push conspiracy theories and smear political opponents with accusations that lack any kind of factual basis. I understand that in that case, you may very well disagree with the point that official statements at a congressional hearing directly contradicting the President would create a "treacherous political moment."

However, just because you dislike something doesn't make it a lie.

McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
Mr. Comey also dismissed Mr. Trump’s claim that he was wiretapped by his predecessor during the campaign, a sensational but unfounded accusation that has served as a distraction in the public debate over Russian election interference.


No he didn't. He said there was no evidence. Sensational and unfounded... it's that added editorialization that makes it fake.


Comey said "With respect to the president's tweets about alleged wiretapping directed at him by the prior administration, I have no information that supports those tweets and we have looked carefully inside the FBI. The Department of Justice has asked me to share with you that the answer is the same for the Department of Justice and all its components. The department has no information that supports those tweets."

Asked if President Obama could unilaterally order a wiretap of anyone, Comey's answer was that "No president could."

This was specifically about Trump's tweet saying "How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process."

It's entirely fair to say that Comey's statement dismissed Trump's claim. Nothing here is factually wrong.

McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
The New York Times and other news organizations have reported the existence of the investigation into the Trump campaign and its relationship with Russia, but the White House dismissed those reports as politically motivated and rallied political allies to rebut them. Mr. Comey’s testimony on Monday was the first public acknowledgment of the case. The F.B.I. typically discloses its investigations only in the rare circumstances when officials believe it is in the public interest.


It's been reported since last November. Who are they kidding?


Are you trying to argue that there it this is not the first time an investigation into these issues has been publicly confirmed? Go ahead, provide a link. Or admit that you're just making **** up.

Nothing here is factually wrong.

McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
“This is one of those circumstances,” Mr. Comey said.

[...]
One of those circumstances is being called before a congressional committee... Making it sound alrming and ominous is fake news.


It's a direct quote from Comey, right after him saying that it is not the practice of the FBI to confirm the existence of ongoing investigations, especially of investigations that involve classified matters. Comey himself pointed out that the FBI only confirmed the existence of an investigation in unusual circumstances where it is in the public interest.

Nothing here is factually wrong.

McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
American intelligence agencies concluded in January that the President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia personally ordered a covert effort to hurt Hillary Clinton’s chances and aid Mr. Trump. That included the hacking of political targets including the Democratic National Committee and releasing embarrassing emails through the website WikiLeaks.


Not something said during today's grilling. This is why it's fake news.


And the New York Times didn't make that claim. Again, you're using the term "fake news" for reporting that you don't like.

Nothing here is factually wrong.

McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
Mr. Comey said the F.B.I. was “investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts.”

[...]


The only bit of actual news in this entire article. An investigation does not infer guilt or innocence.


An investigation does not infer guilt or innocence.

However, the confirmed existence of such an investigation directly contradicts Trump's claims that the entire Russia issue is made up, is fake news, is an invention by the main stream media, or was cooked up by his political opponents.

McGentrix wrote:
Trump is correct. It is fake news.


See, you're just not able to point to anything in the article that is factually incorrect.

As suspected, you're using the term "fake news" for news that are factually correct, but that you simply don't like. Much like Trump does. It's no surprise that you would agree with him.
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 03:55 pm
@oralloy,
it seems ro have escaped your notice that trump LOST by almost three million votes.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 04:13 pm
@MontereyJack,
Trump's math.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/donald-trump-voter-fraud-math-214695
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 04:15 pm
@MontereyJack,
You guys keep holding on to that like it means something. The election isn't decided by the popular vote, it is decided by the Electoral College, which Trump won.
cicerone imposter
 
  5  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 04:16 pm
@Baldimo,
We all know Trump won. However, many are having buyer's remorse. His approval rating is 37%; the lowest in two decades.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/12/donald-trumps-approval-rating-lowest-president-elect-two-decades/

Obama had 92% approval rating, and Trump had 16% approval rating. See the difference?
farmerman
 
  5  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 04:44 pm
@Baldimo,
actually he didnt win the votes of a majority of voters. he has to recognize that this "majority" needs to be made his constituency or he will fail.
It has nothing to do with "cheese". Its a growing majority according to the polls.
HMMM, can he straiten up and stop being the ignorqnt, petulent little schoolyard bully?


Odds arent in his favor. Last week he lied about how much he won the election by (hes reliving his glorious 15 minutes)
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 04:53 pm
@farmerman,
Trump can't accept the fact that his inaugural picture didn't show the crowds he claimed.
farmerman
 
  7  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 05:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Is he the most childish 70 year old youve ever seen?
I am in fear for Steve Colbert's life. When Tweets decides to go full frontal Nazi, Colbert will be sent to the new Trump "interment golf course"
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 05:36 pm
Quote:

Hours before the start of Monday’s long-awaited House Intelligence Committee hearing on Russia’s interference in the U.S. election, President Donald Trump sent a tweet saying the “real story” is “the leaking of Classified information” about his administration. Republicans on the committee were apparently on the same page.

The partisan divide in questioning was stark: an overwhelming number of the questions Republicans directed to FBI Director James Comey and NSA Director Mike Rogers focused on the national security risks and criminal consequences of leaking classified material to the press, while Democrats on the committee honed in on the explosive revelations that those leaks brought to light.
TPM
This was entirely predictable. The diversion was established weeks ago. They could have, of course, set up an inquiry on the leak issue but there was never any real intention to do that. The leak issue was conflated into the Russia issue to muddy that inquiry and media concentration on it.

Again, this is not about reality but rather the presentation of narratives that seek to distort and confuse reality and facts.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 05:46 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Again, this is not about reality but rather the presentation of narratives that seek to distort and confuse reality and facts.


They're doing a yeoman's job at it too!
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 05:49 pm
Interesting anecdote. Let's note first that I live in a small out of the way town on Vancouver island, BC, population about 35,000.

I just got back from grocery shopping and had a chance conversation with a fellow about 25. We were shopping for bread and I thought perhaps I'd taken the last loaf of a particular bread, so asked him if I had. He said, no, he was looking for Russian rye. I said I never buy Russian bread because Trump may be involved. He said, "The hearings were today". I said I'd been working and wanted to check in when I got home. He'd watched the whole thing, said it was as expected, no big revelation, just the first formal statement from Comey that there was an on-going investigation. This kid knew his stuff.

Attention by Canadians, even in a little town like this, on what is happening down south right now particularly, is pervasive.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 05:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, they are good at it. That is one aspect in which Trump and the GOP are quite alike - lots of expertise at selling crap product.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 05:57 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

You guys keep holding on to that like it means something. The election isn't decided by the popular vote, it is decided by the Electoral College, which Trump won.


Which he won by a huge margin.
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 06:00 pm
Memory Hole notes from all over.

"Manafort...Manafort....hmmmm... I might have a dim recollection of that name"
Quote:
Asked at Monday’s press briefing if President Donald Trump stands by his earlier comments that he is not aware of any contacts between his campaign associates and Russia, Spicer acknowledged former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s previous relationship with the country, but described him as a “volunteer of the campaign.”

And then, understating the role of Trump’s former campaign chairman, Spicer added: “There has been discussion of Paul Manafort, who played a very limited role for a very limited amount of time.”

Manafort ran Trump’s campaign for several months last year before he resigned in August, while he was facing scrutiny for his ties to pro-Russian politicians in Ukraine.
Politico
This level of mendacity is not sustainable. Or democracy is not.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 06:01 pm
@blatham,
The biggest problem is that con-Trump has hoodwinked many people in this country to win the election.
Now that he's in office, some 14 million Americans are going to lose health care, and that's the low estimate when he repeals and replaces Obamacare.

Trump's first day EO hasn't worked out too well, but he's still working at it.
Quote:
Clearly, Trump has stated that he is a unique candidate because he is a GOP candidate who doesn’t want to repeal Obamacare but was he telling the truth? Absolutely not. The health care plan on his official campaign website states: “But none of these positive reforms can be accomplished without Obamacare repeal. On Day One of the Trump Administration, we will ask Congress to immediately deliver a full repeal of Obamacare.”
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 06:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That's why Ryan's plan would do. But it is yet unclear as to whether these clowns can even pull it off.
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 06:07 pm
Quote:
Behind Trump’s Russia Romance, There’s a Tower Full of Oligarchs

"On the 78th floor: a Russian who once was accused of mob ties and extortion by an oligarch. On the 79th, an Uzbek jeweler investigated for money laundering who was eventually executed on the street in Manhattan. And four floors higher, a pro-Moscow Ukrainian politician whose party hired a Donald Trump adviser."
Bloomberg
McGentrix
 
  0  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 06:10 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

That's why Ryan's plan would do. But it is yet unclear as to whether these clowns can even pull it off.


I can see CI continuing that line of bullshit, but come on. You are a student of the media... That 14 million number is a mcguffin for the weak minded liberals that are too weak kneed to understand how things really work.

But surely you know that, right?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 06:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I'm just wondering how many people who voted for Trump will be losing their health insurance? The irony.
Quote:
The blows of Trumpcare hit hard and hit early. By 2018 alone, "14 million more people would be uninsured," compared to continuing Obamacare, according to the CBO report. By 2020, Trumpcare would reverse all the progress the country has made in expanding insurance under Obamacare – stripping 21 million of coverage. But Trumpcare isn't done. By 2026, the damage swells to 24 million. That's like kicking every man, woman and child in the state of Texas off America's insurance rolls.
0 Replies
 
 

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