192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
giujohn
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 08:43 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
When essential social services are seen as charity instead of rights you get people making value judgements. You get rich people deciding who deserves their largesse instead of paying a fair amount of taxes, and what they pay in charity is rarely as much as they would pay in taxes if there was a more equitable tax system.


Spoken like a true socialist.

Find for me in my Constitution where "social services" is a right.

And you're right, the tax system is not equitable... businesses should be taxed to a far lesser degree.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 08:48 am
Goodness me. I've seen fine-tuned machines but this is special.

http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/slgcksjuase6ixhuwj5n.jpg http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/do-we-have-lift-off
McGentrix
 
  0  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 08:55 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
It is high season in South Florida: blue skies, low humidity, warm temperatures and increasingly regular visits from the president of the United States.

Trump’s visits to Mar-a-Lago are stretching Palm Beach’s budget and locals’ patience

With those visits, the busiest time of year for longtime residents of Palm Beach has taken on a new unpleasantness. Airplane noise, traffic and a rash of angry confrontations between pro and anti-Trump demonstrators are beginning to seem like the new normal.

“He’s baaaack!” warned one resident on a neighborhood blog. “Get out your earplugs it is going to be another noisy weekend!”

President Trump’s trips here — which have added up to more than half of the weekends since his inauguration — are also forcing a brewing budgetary crisis for Palm Beach County, which faces the prospect of millions of dollars in unexpected costs associated with aiding in securing the president’s luxury estate.
SP
Not to mention the millions spent each weekend that Trump does this.


Yeah, this is an issue I can agree with his critics on.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:03 am
@blatham,
Huh.

http://i.imgur.com/Fje7tAJ.jpg

They made the scale small so you could see the difference. What is that, -6? Amazing what polls can show.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:09 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
Yeah, this is an issue I can agree with his critics on.

The expenditures just for his weekend trips (if he does them to one of his resort/hotel properties each weekend - and he has done so each weekend since taking office) would exceed the total National Endowment For the Arts for one year. So, one has to ask, where's the compassion for coal miners?
Quote:
Mick Mulvaney, the White House budget director, pushed back Sunday against critics of President Donald Trump's budget proposal, saying it shows compassion to the voters who elected Trump.

"The president knows who his voters are. His voters are folks who pay taxes as well. And I think for the first time in a long time, you have an administration that is looking at the compassion of both sides of the equation," Mulvaney said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/mulvaney-trump-budget-236228

Aside from that, you are on the right side with this one, McG. Therefore you do now have my permission to date my ugly spinster sister.

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:10 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

No. There are two different and not mutually exclusive aspects here. One is the hegemonic nature of the US's role in the world (spelled out explicitly in the PNAC documents which Dick Cheney, for one, was signatory to) and which is driven most acutely by business interests. The other is the moral obligation of any nation to attend to injustices, tyranny and suffering outside its own borders. As you know, the US has propped up many tyrannies because US businesses operating in those places profited from that situation.

This statement is replete with familiar phrases ( "memes"?) that are inaccurate, in some cases unknowable, and for which Blatham has offered no proof, no specific examples, indeed no support at all.

The US does indeed play a major role in the world , as do China, the major European powers ( which by his standards are hegemons for the rest of Europe), India and others, simply as a result of the size and reach of their economies. We do not exercise hegemonic control over these other powers, and we do not even attempt to do so, though we do (as do they) seek to protect our own interests, those of our allies, and preserve a relatively peaceful balance among them.

Instead of repeating these nonsensical platitudes Blatham should specify what he would have us do differently with respect to these powers.

The various European Powers managed to demolish the wealth and power of centuries in a totally useless and meaningless war in 1914 which directly led to Marxist revolutions in Russia and later China and a Second round of war in Europe and the world. In the 1918 negotiations in Paris they capped it off with a "peace" treaty and a rearrangement of colonial empires that ensured the enmity of then rising Japan ; the eventual eruption of religious conflict and later anti Western jihadist revolution across the Muslim world; and even the creation of a Marxist revolutionary movement in Viet Nam (Ho Chi Minh was physically present in Paris in 1918 seeking home rule within the French Empire for his country. He was scornfully dismissed, and we all know the rest.)

The United States was a reluctant and late participation in both wars, but once in, we did our best. (The America First or "isolationist" movement in this country in the 1930s and afterwards was an obvious and direct consequence of popular revulsion with the behavior of the European powers in the aftermath of WWI.)

After WWII Europe ( including a militarily triumphant USSR) was awash in devastation, displaced peoples and rising poverty. The United States, alone in the world, had an intact, high capacity industrial and economic structure. We were, at that moment, apart from a largely political threat from revolutionary Soviet communists, trolling throughout Europe and its disintegrating colonial empires, the undisputed masters of the World. That was a very revealing moment for our real intentions and natures.

What did we do? We contributed hundreds of billions (much more in today's currencies) to the reconstruction of Western Europe and its economic life. We encouraged (with limited success) the British, French, and Belgians to liberate their former Asian and African empires ( but did enable Australia, Canada and New Zeeland to escape the British economic chokehold of the Sterling Union). We led in the efforts to give a voice to peoples across the world in the United Nations, and in encouraging the efforts of European leaders towards union, initially with the European Coal and Steel Community.

Confronted with a rising political and military threat from an obviously aggressive USSR, which was pillaging the economies and suppressing the cultures of its captive satellite nations in Eastern Europe, we supported the creation of NATO ( exercising a lot of pressure to get Denmark and Norway to join it instead of a proposed Swedish neutral Scandinavian Union)

In short we went to great lengths to assist in the creation of our principal competitors today. Real hegemons don't do that.

We did however repeat SOME of the errors of our hapless predecessors in the Western world. The British specialized in the creation of positively unstable colonial entities (India, Iraq, and Nigeria are obvious examples) which facilitated their ability to control them with minimum cost and effort. Very effective colonial policy, but one that led to dysfunction and mass exterminations with the end of empire. We foolishly intervened in Iraq and are living with other consequences of British exploitation in India/Pakistan and Africa.

We tolerate obviously hostile but ineffective and self limiting tyrannies in our neighborhood (Cuba and Venezuela). Both have brought tyranny, oppression and poverty to their peoples, and are excellent examples of misrule. ( However even many rather sappy, inconsequential leaders of friendly, even neighboring nations describe them as islands of liberty led by revolutionary heroes.) The entirely unnecessary suffering and tyranny to which the peoples of these nations are subject is rather obvious, but we have not intervened. What would be Blatham's prescription for our (or Canada's ) moral responsibility to bring peace and prosperity to them?

One could go on but this is enough. Blatham is very effective in repeating ( to his credit, usually with acknowledgement of the source) the stuff he reads in blogs and magazines. However he fails to consider or sufficiently understand the underlying issues. Instead he merely rationalizes the information and understanding he has, all in terms of a rather superficial contemporary political formula, and ignoring anything that might complicate his superficial and often fatuous formulas.


0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:21 am
We'll recall last week when Paul Ryan reminisced with conservative buddy Rich Lowry about how since they were kegging back in college about how he'd always wanted to send Medicaid back to the states (where it can be killed) and/or capping its growth rate.
Quote:
Joe Conason‏Verified account @JoeConason Mar 17
Joe Conason Retweeted Joe Conason
I almost forgot! Ryan was attending college on Social Security survivor benefits *while he fantasized about cutting Medicaid.*
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  4  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:26 am
@izzythepush,
I agree with you.
I read some place something about giving and paying over taxes.
In USA people donate a lot of money for schools, college and universities.
Education is free in Europe to a ceertain extend. Often the students live on the campus in USA, which then is included in the fee.
Over here we have to pay for food and living quarters.
In the States you have to pay the fee as long as your are at the college and volontary afterwards.
We pay over the taxes for education for lifetime.
We help the needy and ourselves too via taxes, but we donate a lot too - to help there were often is no/ not enough help.

McGentrix
 
  0  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:40 am
@saab,
I had to go pretty far to find Sweden all the way down at 25th between Finland and Uganda.

You'd have to stretch pretty far to consider taxes to be charity.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:53 am
@farmerman,
I love how opposition to Global Warming is considered to be the same as anti-science. Nice propaganda.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 09:54 am
@McGentrix,
I see that shot over your head. When you don't understand something, or prefer to stick your head in the sand you fall back on the same hackneyed mantra.

Charity is a bad thing when it excuses the rich from fulfilling their social obligations and paying taxes. Take meals on wheels, at the moment it's based on need, if they cut it, (like they've already spoken about, so wealthy men like Trump can be even wealthier,) and hand it over to charity then that charity will make a value judgement. They may decide to exclude homosexuals, or unmarried mothers, or even people who don't practice a particular religion.

Human rights are rights, 21st century rights not 18th century ones. Why not get the play out, GCSE kids can understand it so hopefully it shouldn't give you too much trouble,
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  4  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 10:02 am
@McGentrix,
I do not consider taxes to be a charity.
When you see to that a certain group is supported by taxes then this group is not depended on charity.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/sep/08/charitable-giving-country

You twisted the facts around.
% of the population giving money to charity
USA 60%, Sweden 52%, Finland 42% and Zambia 25%
The next is an index of average of three things: donating money, donating time and helping someone within the last month
55% of the USAmerican and 37% of the Finns, Swedes and Zambians did this.
Debra Law
 
  2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 10:03 am
Just so everyone is clear: Trump means what he says, except when he doesn't.

That clarification is necessary with respect to Trump's assertion that Obama tapped his phones in the midst of the sacrosanct election process. After all, the word tapp (sic) (without quotation marks) or "wiretapping" (with quotation marks) is "old fashioned" vernacular. What he really meant (maybe) was "survelliance", which comes in many "modern" forms, including but not limited to using microwave ovens. Furthermore, Trump's use of quotation marks is significant, except when it's not.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — FBI Director James Comey confirmed Monday that the bureau is investigating possible links and coordination between Russia and associates of President Donald Trump as part of a broader probe of Russian interference in last year’s presidential election.

. . .

Earlier in the hearing, the chairman of the committee contradicted an assertion from Trump by saying that there had been no wiretap of Trump Tower. But Rep. Devin Nunes, a California Republican whose committee is one of several investigating, said that other forms of surveillance of Trump and his associates have not been ruled out.


More at link.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/comey-fbi-investigating-links-russia-trump-associates/



0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 10:24 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Charity is never not a good thing. I am not sure where you get the idea that social services are "rights". That sounds awful fishy.
So I live in a fishy country ...
Quote:
Preamble

Conscious of their responsibility before God and man,

Inspired by the determination to promote world peace as an equal partner in a united Europe, the German people, in the exercise of their constituent power, have adopted this Basic Law.
[...]
Article 20
[Constitutional principles – Right of resistance]

(1) The Federal Republic of Germany is a democratic and social federal state.
[...]
Article 79
[Amendment of the Basic Law]

... ... ...
(3) Amendments to this Basic Law affecting the division of the Federation into Länder, their participation on principle in the legislative process, or the principles laid down in Articles 1 and 20 shall be inadmissible.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 10:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Does any of that mean anything? If I didn't like Germany as much as I do, I could go on about the fishyness. But, I do like Germany so I shall not attempt to do so.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 10:29 am
@saab,
The thing is where benefits are more generous most people get back to work sooner. Most people don't want to spend their lives on the dole, it's boring and lowers your self esteem. Paying people a pittance can put them in a poverty trap. They can't afford to live on nothing for a week/month, they can't afford bus fares so they're stuck.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 10:32 am
@saab,
It's also a bit rich when Trump has just cut the overseas aid budget. I doubt very much "charitable" Americans will make up the shortfall.

I also think McGentrix is being deliberately obtuse.

McGentrix
 
  0  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 10:39 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

The thing is where benefits are more generous most people get back to work sooner. Most people don't want to spend their lives on the dole, it's boring and lowers your self esteem. Paying people a pittance can put them in a poverty trap. They can't afford to live on nothing for a week/month, they can't afford bus fares so they're stuck.


Meet the families where no one's worked for THREE generations - and they don't care

Quote:
"The only problem is," she says without a hint of irony, "that we're living in a three-bedroom council house, which is ridiculous.

"I'm asking the council for a ten-bedroom home for all of us. We need more space. It's awful sometimes when all the children are squabbling. Still, we do have a big TV with Sky, but we need some relaxation."

Of course they do, poor lambs. What a damning verdict on our claim-it-all society, a grotesque mirror of the dark television drama Shameless. That show features fictional father-of-eight Frank, who is work-shy and self-pitying. Living on the Chatsworth Estate, he heads a family of dysfunctional teenagers living on an estate of benefit claimants and cheats.

The McFaddens bear an uncanny resemblance. Grandmother Sue is divorced and has three daughters, Theresa, 34, Debbie, 32, and Tammy, 24. None of the adults living in the house in Ellesmere Port, near Chester, has a job, and there are also six grandchildren living at home - Kyle, 18, Clayton , 12, Tyler, nine, Courtney, eight, Jodie, seven, and Lucas, six.

But the really disturbing aspect of the McFaddens' lifestyle is that they are far from alone. Six million Britons are living in homes where no one has a job and "benefits are a way of life", according to a report by MPs. Shock figures also revealed that 20,000 households in Britain are pocketing more than £30,000 a year in state benefits.


Much more at link above.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 10:40 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
Does any of that mean anything?
Well, I suppose so. At least, generally a constitution is considered to be the highest law of a country.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Mon 20 Mar, 2017 10:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
Does any of that mean anything?
Well, I suppose so. At least, generally a constitution is considered to be the highest law of a country.


Well sure, but what was the point? You have a bunch of headers leading to something I think? It's just that the trail kind of dies before you get to the point.
 

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