192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 11:42 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
You're totally wrong; "they're" just trying to keep guns away from the mentally ill and criminals.

No, as usual I am completely correct. The Democrats have repeatedly tried to take guns away from normal law-abiding people.


cicerone imposter wrote:
You have a problem with that?

I have a problem with flagrant violations of the Second Amendment.


cicerone imposter wrote:
They just want to enforce gun registration - especially at gun shows.

No, the Democrats want to completely abolish the Second Amendment.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 11:44 am
@oralloy,
Prove your claim through "liberal" legislation on repealing the second amendment.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 11:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Prove your claim through "liberal" legislation on repealing the second amendment.

The 2013 gun control debacle was an example of liberals pushing legislation that would grievously violate the Second Amendment.

Obama's horrendous executive orders are another example of liberal intent to violate the Second Amendment.

As are cases of leftist judges making rulings that allow violations of the Second Amendment to take place.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 12:07 pm
@oralloy,
You.'re maki g claims without providing proof. Do you understand the word "proof?"
Do you know what a "legislation" is?
You're a big waste of time; you are now on IGNORE.
oooops, you're already on ignore.
ossobucotemp
 
  2  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 12:15 pm
I haven't read up yet, since I'm anxious to get this posted and into my saved files (easier on the elderly computer if I don't have too much open), sorry if anyone else posted it already.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/02/moonlight-and-other-light-in-trumps-darkness.html

This is written by one of my favorite people I've never met, Andrew Sullivan. He is a self declared Conservative, and a religious Catholic. Not usual at the top of my favorites these days, though I have conservative relatives and friends and know and like a lot of Catholics. I first read about him on a2k, via Sozobe often quoting him some years ago. I'm presently glad he is writing at New York Magazine, which I read anyway; NYM is right there in my bookmarks.


I don't think he'd mind if I copy the whole thing. Let's see if I can.

It takes a while to get to Trump but it's all of a piece.

Full quote except I didn't repeat the title, or show the photo from Moonlight.

Of all the movies up for an Oscar for Best Picture this weekend, Moonlight is the only one I’ve seen twice. I’m not going to sing its praises again here — there are many others who have done it justice. But what I truly loved about the movie was the way in which it managed to transcend identity politics almost effortlessly. It never seemed to be straining to say that it was a groundbreaking movie about being gay and black in America; it simply told a story of being human in America. Part of that may be a function of how our society has shifted so that movies about the gay experience can now shrug off their otherness; but part too, surely, is because the director, Barry Jenkins, is straight. By all accounts he worked closely with Tarell Alvin McCraney, the gay man who created the story. But, like Ang Lee in Brokeback Mountain, he didn’t shy from what some now call “cultural appropriation.” He seized it. And so we got to see an authentically gay story through a straight man’s eyes — and the view was beautiful. Sometimes, it’s precisely the tension in cultural appropriation that creates the greatest art — because a work of translation is, at its best, also one of empathy. Attempting to shut this cross-pollination down may come from good intentions; but it’s a fatal political constriction on what art can really achieve. In art, the only identity that ultimately matters is that of the artist. The whole point is to leave the rest behind.

And then, as if to cheer me up some more, I came across this truly uplifting nugget: According to a new study, we saw a 7 percent drop in suicides among gay teens in states that allowed marriage equality between 1999 and 2015, relative to rates in states where gay marriage was still banned. There’s no causal relationship proven here — just a strong correlation — so a degree of skepticism is merited. (You can and should check out the detailed study.) But it makes intuitive sense to me. Adolescence can be brutal for anyone — but it’s particularly isolating for gay or trans teens, as Moonlight captured so exquisitely. In the old days, as soon as you realized you might be gay, you understood immediately that you’d never be worthy of the marriage your parents or siblings had. That knowledge often pierced the young psyche with shame and stigma — and wounded your self-esteem for life. More distressing: Almost by definition, many of these most troubled kids don’t and won’t acknowledge their feelings, and so are resistant to counseling. But with legalizing marriage equality, there is another way to reach them — by the law itself telling this invisible and silent group that their state sees them as equal to their peers. It’s an anti-suicide measure all by itself — requiring no counselors, carried in the general atmosphere, removing or decreasing stigma.

In that sense, you could call marriage equality a public health initiative. A staggering 28.5 percent of high school students who are sexual minorities attempt suicide each year. If marriage equality helps keep one of them from killing herself, or the trauma of trying, that would be a blessing beyond measure. That it might correlate with a decline in attempted suicides among all gay kids — the study assesses 134,000 fewer incidents a year — is a dream come true. Which is why marriage equality was never in the end about choosing politics. It was always, at its core, about choosing life.

I don’t know about you, but the abject terror and anxiety of the last few months have abated somewhat. This is not, I hasten to add, because we have learned much that should reassure us about this unhinged authoritarian in the Oval Office. The rhetoric has not exactly mellowed. Not long after he called the press “the enemy of the American people,” he called his deportation revamp a “military operation,” for Pete’s sake. It’s just a matter of human endurance. You have to breathe at some point, to pace yourself, to find more spaces in your life and your soul where Trump cannot invade. There are only so many “truthful hyperboles” or tweet storms a person can withstand. My body’s habitual response after a period of intense stress and worry is to shut down with some kind of bronchial or sinus infection — and lo and behold, it has. I’ve been spending the last couple of afternoons in a feverish oblivion. At some point, though, we’ll have to find a balance between self-preservation and vigilance. You can’t call in sick for four years.

My only active constructive suggestion — apart from constant grassroots pressure on congressmen and senators — is to find a single issue on which to marshal the forces of the opposition. Release of the tax returns has always seemed the clearest candidate. The advantage of this particular issue is that it unites Republicans and Democrats. A recent poll found that 74 percent of Americans want the returns released, including 53 percent of Republicans. It was a Trump promise, after all. And if pressure on him can’t work, the Senate Intelligence Committee has the power to subpoena the returns in its investigation of the Kremlin’s hacking of the election. All we need is massive and sustained public pressure. So I’m psyched to discover I’m not the only one to like this idea. A former Colbert Report writer, Frank Lesser, tweeted it out the day after the Women’s March. And it’s on — a whole host of groups are currently organizing a “Tax March” for Washington and many other cities on April 15. Bit by bit, we can keep the pressure on.

I’m encouraged, too, by the polling. By any measure, it’s not good for Trump. Quinnipiac just put his approval at 38 percent. Gallup has him struggling in the very low 40s. The RCP average has him at 44–50. I don’t think that bizarre presser or subsequent rally last week did him any good, either — except for with his base, which still gives him the Full Hannity. They won’t budge, but if Trump slips toward the mid-30s, the congressional GOP may get colder feet — especially those in districts won by Hillary Clinton.

The key, it seems to me, are those voters best described in Josh Barro’s lovely formulation, the “Trump-curious.” Gallup finds them much lower in support for early Trump than they were for late Obama. They don’t like chaos or incompetence — and they’ve seen their fair share of both; they’re not going to like seeing people’s health insurance taken away from them. Nor do they enjoy unnerving scenes of mass deportations. They voted for Trump in part because they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Clinton but also, one suspects, out of a gamble that Trump may be good for the economy. If the economy goes south — and remember, Trump inherited a low unemployment rate and a long stock-market boom — they could leave in droves. It’s vital we don’t push these people away from the opposition by too dogmatic or leftist a stance. It’s crucial to keep a calm, moderate, and sane voice directed at exactly this 15 percent or so; and to simply hold Trump constantly accountable for the results of his policies, especially on health care and jobs. If we can’t remove him, we can neuter him. And for that, the coalition of opposition has to be as broad as possible.

Meanwhile, where are we in liberal democracy’s Trumpmageddon?

One gets the impression that only people in the CIA know. Some of them have told the New York Times and CNN that there were constant communications between members of the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence during the 2016 campaign — and some others at “the highest levels of the intelligence community” appear to have told Reince Priebus that those reports are “grossly overstated and inaccurate” (which is not quite the same, I’ll note, as completely untrue). This is what we call a standoff — hence the Senate Intelligence Committee’s letters sent this week to several agencies, asking them to preserve all records and information on the Russian attempt to hack the election. Here’s hoping they didn’t wait too long. The whole affair may well end up in John McCain’s hands — and investigative reporters’. In ordinary times, I’d agree with those concerned about the CIA operating to counteract its own president — even if only through leaks. But if there’s a credible case that there was collusion between the Trump campaign and a hostile foreign power to hack our elections … well, the CIA knows their duty. They swore an oath to the Constitution, not this president. And potential treason is surely an exception that proves the rule.

On the national security front, there is also some good news. The removal of Mike Flynn from the NSA is a huge relief to anyone worried about an impending World War III (most of us) — and it was achieved by the Washington Post. The elite press is not irrelevant! Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster now joins Mattis as the sane guardian of the country’s fraying alliances, and, more encouraging, has a record of plain speaking to superiors. We’ll see how that translates to running the unwieldy NSA and confronting Trump — but it sure is an improvement on Flynn.

Then you have to note the tiny advances and momentary reliefs in the first month: mounting public support for Obamacare, and Republican disarray on repeal; Trump’s capitulation on the One China policy; his acquiescence (so far) in the Iran nuclear deal; his exemption (so far) of the Dreamers from mass deportation; his keeping Obama’s ruling for nondiscrimination against gay people in federal contracts; his deferral to the courts on the travel ban; and his selection of a sane, well-regarded judge to replace Scalia. For most presidents, these would be no-brainers. For Trump, they’re small mercies, shards of reality-based politics emerging among the chaos. At this point, we have to take what solace we can.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 12:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
You.'re maki g claims without providing proof.

References to easily-remembered historical events count as proof.


cicerone imposter wrote:
Do you understand the word "proof?"

Yes.


cicerone imposter wrote:
Do you know what a "legislation" is?

Yes. Two of the events that I referred to involved legislation.

Obama's executive orders didn't involve legislation, but so what? They still demonstrate Leftist intent to violate the Second Amendment.


cicerone imposter wrote:
You're a big waste of time; you are now on IGNORE.
oooops, you're already on ignore.

Blaham also likes to throw temper tantrums when he sees facts that he doesn't like.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 01:02 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

If Trump said the sky is blue,


It's probably the middle of the night.

https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/120/images/442-2-1226780166.jpg
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  6  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 01:07 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

I generally agree. Ultimately Progressives are their own worst enemies. They want to be judged based on their (always) good intentions, but eventually the dismal results of their actual programs in action turn the tide against them.

I'm all for the continued activism Debra advocates: the cacophony it creates is already wearying to its audience and dulling the increasingly vitriolic and somewhat hysterical messaging it contains. Even better, it reinforces all the least palatable elements of the Democrat Party and distracts their remaining leadership from a rational examination of the underlying causes of their recent defeat, and constructive action to address it. OK with me....

Meanwhile the curent administration continues to rack up positice achievements in the real world we inhabit solidifying its standing for the future.


Dismal results? Your willful blindness is without limits.

Are black people allowed to sit anywhere they want on a bus and drink from the same water fountains as whites?

Are the female members of your family allowed to vote and participate in all facets of society?

Are the female members of your family endowed with the right to control their own procreative destinies?

Is there a societal safety net in place that would allow you and your loved ones to survive if you found yourselves homeless and/or without an income?

Are disabled children allowed to attend school and obtain an education?

The above is just the tip of the iceberg. You owe a tremendous amount of gratitude to progressive people who have fought long and hard over many decades for the societal progress that you take for granted. Dismal failure, indeed. Open your eyes, mister negativity.

Maybe you belong to the small faction of people (repressive oppressors) who, among other things, support this sexist proposition currently displayed on a billboard: "Real men provide[;] Real women appreciate it."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/23/us/nc-billboard-protest-trnd/

But keep in mind that the subjugation of all non-white males, all non-heterosexuals, and all females will not be tolerated; your apparent desire for the regression of society will be resisted. Progress has been made, and there is clearly more progress that must take place. Your Orwellian logic that progress is failure doesn't resonate with the majority of the people. Maybe you yearn for regression back to a time when you thought America was great, but most women and people of color (the majority of Americans) disagree with regression and we won't allow it.

Why don't you heed the words of a progressive Pope and examine the "double life" you're advocating:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pope-francis-atheists-better-than-hypocrites_us_58afb6ace4b0a8a9b780e4e1?

We are not experiencing the "best of times" right now, but the pendulum will quickly swing in the opposite direction. A few wise words from Justice Ginsburg can be heard here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39065535

Progressives will resist the repressors (regressive oppressors) and will prevail ... just as we have always prevailed.





McGentrix
 
  -3  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 01:11 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

Maybe you belong to the small faction of people (repressive oppressors) who, among other things, support this sexist proposition currently displayed on a billboard: "Real men provide[;] Real women appreciate it."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/23/us/nc-billboard-protest-trnd/



I suspect you're part of the small faction that supports the proposition "Real men are in jail[;]Real women have multiple kids with different men."

A real progressive outlook.
Debra Law
 
  5  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 02:08 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Debra Law wrote:

Maybe you belong to the small faction of people (repressive oppressors) who, among other things, support this sexist proposition currently displayed on a billboard: "Real men provide[;] Real women appreciate it."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/23/us/nc-billboard-protest-trnd/



I suspect you're part of the small faction that supports the proposition "Real men are in jail[;]Real women have multiple kids with different men."

A real progressive outlook.


McGentrix: Your above display of negative stereotyping and discriminatory animus says a hell of a lot more about you than it does about me. You clearly subscribe to Cliven Bundy's dissertation that "the negro" was better off picking cotton. Why don't you find the gates to the current century and walk through it?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 02:17 pm
@Debra Law,
Tell it like it is, Debra. I and many progressives hear you; the voice of equality and reason.
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 02:40 pm

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/02/24/cnn-nyt-others-blocked-from-wh-briefing.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl

Sign says "No Assholes Allowed".....
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  4  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 02:43 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Debra Law wrote:
Furthermore, progressives are not enemies of the second amendment.

Funny how they fight tooth and nail to try to violate it every chance they get.


Debra Law wrote:
No one is trying to take your guns away from you.

The Left's long history of trying to take guns away from people shows that this isn't true.


Debra Law wrote:
I doubt you want to live in a world constructed by Trump et al., and your support of the kind of tyranny the right-wing faction is trying to install is not in your own best interest.

It is in my best interest to not have the Second Amendment abolished. That means voting for Trump and the Republicans.


You just survived 8 years under Obama. Whew! Did he take away your guns? I don't think so. You still have them, don't you? What have I done to take away your guns? Be specific.


Edited to add this:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/obama-to-gun-owners-im-not-looking-to-disarm-you/

Quote:
DOUG RHUDE, Gun Shop Owner: Knowing that we apply common sense to other issues in our society, specifically like holding irresponsible people accountable for their actions when they drink and drive and kill somebody, and we do that without restricting control of cars and cells phones to the rest of us, the good guys, why then do you and Hillary want to control and restrict and limit gun manufacturers, gun owners and responsible use of guns and ammunition to the rest of us, the good guys, instead of holding the bad guys accountable for their actions?

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: First of all, the notion that I or Hillary or Democrats or whoever you want to choose are hell-bent on taking away folks’ guns is just not true.

And I don’t care how many times the NRA says it. I’m about to leave office. There have been more guns sold since I have been president than just about any time in U.S. history. There are enough guns for every man, woman and child in this country.

And at no point have I ever, ever proposed confiscating guns from responsible gun owners. So it’s just not true.

What I have said is precisely what you suggested, which is, why don’t we treat this like every other thing that we use? I just came from a meeting today in the Situation Room in which I got people who we know have been on ISIL Web sites, living here in the United States, U.S. citizens, and we’re allowed to put them on the no-fly list when it comes to airlines, but because of the National Rifle Association, I cannot prohibit those people from buying a gun.

This is somebody who is a known ISIL sympathizer. And if he wants to walk in to a gun store or a gun show right now and buy as much — as many weapons and ammo as he can, nothing’s prohibiting him from doing that, even though the FBI knows who that person is.

So, sir, I just have to say, respectfully, that there is a way for us to have commonsense gun laws. There is a way for us to make sure that lawful, responsible gun owners like yourself are able to use them for sporting, hunting, protecting yourself, but the only way we’re going to do that is if we don’t have a situation in which anything that is proposed is viewed as some tyrannical destruction of the Second Amendment. And that’s how the issue too often gets framed.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 03:10 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:
Progressives will resist the repressors (regressive oppressors) and will prevail ... just as we have always prevailed.

Actually no. The 2013 gun control debacle has destroyed liberalism as a political force in America.

The Republicans will hold the White House for the next 20 years now. And while the Left will indeed take over the Democratic party during this time, it won't matter because the Republicans will be in charge of everything.

And even after the end of this 20 year period of Republican rule, the voters will not contemplate putting the Democrats back in charge until they purge the liberals and turn back to moderation.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 03:15 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:
You just survived 8 years under Obama. Whew!

Yes. There was already no doubt that the Democrats hate the Second Amendment and mean to abolish it. But if there had been any doubt, the Obama Administration would certainly have removed it.


Debra Law wrote:
Did he take away your guns? I don't think so.

He certainly tried. And he tried hard.

In fact, Obama devoted so much energy to trying to destroy the Second Amendment that he ended up accidentally destroying liberalism as a force in American politics.

The fact that we just barely stopped Obama with the election of Trump shows just how important it is for people to vote for Republicans if they want to keep their freedom.


Debra Law wrote:
You still have them, don't you?

Only because we defeated Obama and Hillary, and elected Trump. If not for those hard-fought victories, the American people would be well on their way to being disarmed right now.


Debra Law wrote:
What have I done to take away your guns? Be specific.

Beats me. I don't know much about you. Did you support any of Obama's many efforts to violate the Second Amendment?


Quote:
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: First of all, the notion that I or Hillary or Democrats or whoever you want to choose are hell-bent on taking away folks’ guns is just not true.

And I don’t care how many times the NRA says it. I’m about to leave office. There have been more guns sold since I have been president than just about any time in U.S. history. There are enough guns for every man, woman and child in this country.

And at no point have I ever, ever proposed confiscating guns from responsible gun owners. So it’s just not true.

Obama is lying. He spent most of his second term trying to violate the Second Amendment.

Liberals don't fool anyone when they lie and say they aren't trying to take away everyone's guns.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 03:53 pm
@oralloy,
How did Obama try to take away 2nd Amendment rights?
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 04:12 pm
https://milo.yiannopoulos.net/2017/02/white-house-ban-cnn/

https://cdn.milo.yiannopoulos.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/800-x-419-Canvas-81-759x419.png
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 04:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Trump said that the media is the enemy of the people. This is the same guy who admires Putin.
Go figure who his supporters are.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 04:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
orally has no response to my question, so he gives me a thumb's down like a kid. Figures. LOL
Debra Law
 
  5  
Fri 24 Feb, 2017 04:17 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Debra Law wrote:
Progressives will resist the repressors (regressive oppressors) and will prevail ... just as we have always prevailed.

Actually no. The 2013 gun control debacle has destroyed liberalism as a political force in America.

The Republicans will hold the White House for the next 20 years now. And while the Left will indeed take over the Democratic party during this time, it won't matter because the Republicans will be in charge of everything.

And even after the end of this 20 year period of Republican rule, the voters will not contemplate putting the Democrats back in charge until they purge the liberals and turn back to moderation.


Perhaps your powers of prediction are flawed. Your gun rights have never been in jeopardy, but the progress made over many decades on every front is presently threatened. The free press is under attack. Multiple millions of people in this country will not allow themselves to subjugated and relegated to second class citizenship. I predict that you are wrong. Gravely wrong.
 

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