monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

@hightor,

Quote:

Leadfoot Quote:
They should have their pens taken away! They should not be allowed to purchase parchment!

Hightor reply:
The analogy fails because writing on a piece of paper is not the same as having access to someone else's platform,

I submit that it is a perfect analogy.
The public square bulletin board of that day was their internet.
If you ban internet access, you are effectively removing their right to speak publicly.

2 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Rubbish, when people printed stuff deemed seditious by the powers that be, like the Bible in English, they would be killed.

Not letting someone on your platform is nowhere close.

1 Reply

@blatham,

Quote:

The important issue here is where one finds neo-nazi followers and white supremacist and in both case, they are almost entirely to be found in right wing politics.

Same tactic was used on the Jews. 'There is some real dirt among those Jews, they must be eradicated!' Said Adolf.

Today's Nazis are a much kinder, gentler breed. They say 'Just silence them all!'.

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@Leadfoot,

Some of the stuff on Parler is disgusting. People saying that those who voted for Biden should watch their children being skinned alive in front of them.

That’s the sort of thing you are supporting, messages like that.

It’s not about free speech it’s inciting violence and hate.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Rubbish, when people printed stuff deemed seditious by the powers that be, like the Bible in English, they would be killed.

I know, I know! We are all such pusses today. No real strum & drang.

But speaking as a Yank. As always YMMV depending where you happen to find yourself.

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It IS a little unsettling- wondering what Trump’s going to do right now. He’s always frantically tweeting out his insanity. Without that, is he just going to explode and leave a big spray-tan, French fry grease and hairspray stain in the oval?

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@Leadfoot,

You're skirting the fact of what I just pointed out. At least acknowledge that, yes, neo-nazis and white supremacists are almost entirely to be found among right wing populations. This fact is not unimportant.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Some of the stuff on Parler is disgusting. People saying that those who voted for Biden should watch their children being skinned alive in front of them.

That’s the sort of thing you are supporting, messages like that.

Who was it that said 'I will fight you to death for what you do, but I will fight to the death for your right to say anything.'

I might have paraphrased that but you get what the idea is, even over there. Or not.

2 Replies

@blatham,

blatham wrote:

You're skirting the fact of what I just pointed out. At least acknowledge that, yes, neo-nazis and white supremacists are almost entirely to be found among right wing populations. This fact is not unimportant.

Seems to be a particularly hard thing for some to acknowledge. They go right into the “both sides” banter.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

I submit that it is a perfect analogy.

Well, you changed it from pens and parchment to public square bulletin board and that's an improvement. But the truth is, they didn't have an internet or anything remotely like it. There's a qualitative difference between gawking at a bulletin board or reading a mimeographed speech and spreading and consuming information online. The medium is at least part of the message.

Quote:

If you ban internet access, you are effectively removing their right to speak publicly.

Leaving aside the matter of incitement to commit political violence, they still have the right to speak publicly. They aren't being prosecuted. But they don't have the right to force a privately-owned platform to post this speech. They can either find a platform that is willing to carry their content, create one, or use other media outlets like newspapers, TV, or radio.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Those posts cross a line, they lead to violence, violence against people who have done nothing wrong.

Any extreme position is wrong, and you have fetishised free speech to the point where it trumps basic human rights.

1 Reply

@blatham,

Quote:

You're skirting the fact of what I just pointed out. At least acknowledge that, yes, neo-nazis and white supremacists are almost entirely to be found among right wing populations. This fact is not unimportant.

I agree completely. But that is by unrelated circumstances, just as Antifa is associated with the Democrats the same way.

If a good dog has flees you don’t shoot the dog.

1 Reply

@hightor,

Quote:

They can either find a platform that is willing to carry their content, create one, or use other media outlets like newspapers, TV, or radio.

This is the logic 'your' position rests on:

Let them black folks get their own buses if they don't want to sit in the back.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

Let them black folks get their own buses if they don't want to sit in the back.

I didn't know that public transportation was covered by the First Amendment.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Your analogies are wrong, the bus boycotters weren’t plotting to kill people or launch a coup d’etat.

It’s quite disgusting that you’re conflating civil rights with the exact opposite.

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

I agree completely. But that is by unrelated circumstances

Mere chance occurrence that neo-nazis and white supremacists arise almost exclusively on the right? What "unrelated circumstances" can you be referring to?

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Those posts cross a line, they lead to violence, violence against people who have done nothing wrong.

I’m being practical while staying true to my principles.
I think it is better to have the truly dangerous kind self identify so we know who they are and then watch them. Just isolating them leads to even more extreme violence. It’s usually 'the quiet man who keeps to himself' that blows up buildings and machine guns party goers in Vegas. You only aggravate the problem by taking away their expressions.

It makes me wonder if people really believe the root of the problem is exposure to evil speech. Maybe you're right, but I had such higher hopes of us.

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@blatham,

Quote:

Mere chance occurrence that neo-nazis and white supremacists arise almost exclusively on the right? What "unrelated circumstances" can you be referring to?

Answer your own question. Why is Antifa exclusively on the left.

People often pick some obscure issue and pick the party most associated with it, no matter how obscure the connection. Then the other party becomes the enemy. Some of those people will go nuts. And damnit, I think you already knew this.

1 Reply

@hightor,

Quote:

Let them black folks get their own buses if they don't want to sit in the back.

Bringing up race is an appeal to sentiment. A better example would be the bus company prohibiting riders from carrying loaded weapons.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

Why is Antifa exclusively on the left.

Are you asking why fascist sentiments are found on the right and anti-fascist sentiments are found predominantly on the left? Is that your question?

1 Reply

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