192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 06:02 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Trump an anti-vaxxer?

Being 100% for or against vaccines is naive. Anti-vaxxers aren't against vaccines for really serious diseases that can't be dealt with naturally (at least they shouldn't be against those); they are against using vaccines as a crutch when healthy people can exercise their immune systems by developing immunity naturally. As you get older or develop health issues that make you immune-compromised when it comes to catching the flu or whatever, then it makes sense to bite the bullet and get vaccinated; but why should people who can develop immunity naturally rely on vaccines? It's like having perfectly good teeth but eating baby food instead of exercising your chewing muscles.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 06:29 am
@livinglava,
Thats OK as a personal choice, but there's a lot of misinformation spread by antivaxers, too.

I'm antifa, but that doesn't mean I'm not against all fascists, because I am.

I get your point about specific vaccines. I wonder about flu shots, because its such a such a hit or miss proposition. The few times I got flu in the last twenty years I took the flu vaccine - but I got a different strain. I do know I don't want the flu and I do take the vaccine now that I am old codger with repository weaknesses and am fighting cancer. Particularly because one of the strategies in my treatment has been to fire up my immune system. I take the pneumonia vaccine, too. Two serious bouts with it in my 40's let me know I do not need to get it again, so after I turned 65, I get it.

I admit there were certain vaccines my kids did not get and that I had to fight their schools over it. I think I made good decisions, because there were no brainer decisions as to certain vaccines they did get, like all the measles, and certain ones they didn't get like whooping cough which is a disease that shows up these days in a very specific place in the US. I would stand in line for a Covid vaccine the way I did for at least three different generations of polio vaccines.

And then my grandson was born with a non working immune system. A sore throat could have killed him. It took a lot time and care to get it jump started, with vaccines as part of the regimen.

If you understand the efficacy of at least certain vaccines, how are you antivax?
livinglava
 
  -1  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 07:01 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

I'm antifa, but that doesn't mean I'm not against all fascists, because I am.

I doubt you are against any left-wing fascism. You would probably just deny it is fascism. If you were truly against fascism, you would have to come to terms with the root causes of fascism that lurk at the psychological level within every human being. Fascism is like sin more generally; we can and should be against it, but when we deny its existence in some areas to focus on hating it it elsewhere, that becomes yet another form of fascism.

Quote:

If you understand the efficacy of at least certain vaccines, how are you antivax?

Because I understand the general logic of why they question and resist vaccination, even if I think there are some vaccines that may be worth using in some situations by some people.

Often you hear that anti-vaxxers believe vaccines cause autism and that is used to mock and ridicule them, but if you study and think about the point they're making with that, there is a logic about autism being like a form of OCD where it gets worse the more order the OCD person achieves and thus more emboldened to go further with the ordering impulse.

It's funny that this topic of vaccines and OCD come up in the same post with (anti)fascism, because they are related in the sense of seeking ever greater order and control over nature and natural processes.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 07:38 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
... you would have to come to terms with the root causes of fascism
Well, not everyone is so good educated about the situation in Italy during WWI as you are.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 07:39 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
I doubt you are against any left-wing fascism.


Do NOT doubt. I am against Marxists and Maoists in particular. Any group with no sense of humor, I am against. Any collectivist system, I am against. Any system with fences, I am against. Any group that forces its will "for the greater good", I am against.
livinglava
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 07:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

livinglava wrote:
... you would have to come to terms with the root causes of fascism
Well, not everyone is so good educated about the situation in Italy during WWI as you are.

Narrowing the definition of fascism to a particular historical expression of it doesn't help make sense of it as a broader social-psychological/cultural phenomenon.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 07:46 am
@livinglava,
livinglava wrote:
Narrowing the definition of fascism to a particular historical expression of it doesn't help make sense of it as a broader social-psychological/cultural phenomenon.
I don't narrow the term nor the definition but went to the roots - or could you name any source naming Fascism before Italy in WWI?

But even if the radical potential of fascism cannot be thought of without the First World War - which deeply shook the world not only militarily but also economically, socially and culturally - it wouldn't have been without the worldwide rise of its great opponent, communism.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 07:53 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Quote:
I doubt you are against any left-wing fascism.


Do NOT doubt. I am against Marxists and Maoists in particular. Any group with no sense of humor, I am against. Any collectivist system, I am against. Any system with fences, I am against. Any group that forces its will "for the greater good", I am against.

Well, anti-Trumpism is fascist scapegoating culture and you don't have to be for Trump to see that. Focusing hate on Trump and 'deplorables' and 'racists' without empathizing and trying to understand the things and people you're against is pretty much the definition of fascism. You assume you are superior and then you take a relentless attitude toward your ideological enemy, blocking empathy in order to empower yourself to condemn them mercilessly. You might be able to justify such behavior in terms of the thing you are reacting to in your enemy, but that is how fascism breeds counter-fascism. I admit I was divided at first when I saw antifa using harsh tactics because part of me thinks that fascism is too strong (collectively, I mean, because it is a team effort among weak individuals) to be overcome without counter-fascism, but at what point do you question the fascism of the counter-fascism, especially when it becomes a movement where people are getting excited about it and signing on precisely because they see an opportunity to legitimate and unlease their own fascist aggression against a scapegoat?

You should realize there are people who just go with the flow of whatever popular movement is available for them to express their tendencies. So if they grow up in the middle of some nazi culture, their aggression will get channeled into that; but if the same exact person grows up in the middle of antifa culture, the same aggression is going to go into that; i.e. because they have only been taught to channel aggression and not to question it and be introspective about how all humans are sinful, including themselves and the people they are against, and how their reaction against their enemies is part of their own sin that they have to come to terms with and self-forgive, just as they forgive those who trespass against them (as per the Lord's prayer).
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 07:55 am
Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday issued an executive order authorizing sanctions against individuals involved in an International Criminal Court investigation into whether U.S. forces committed war crimes in Afghanistan.

A senior Trump administration official, without providing details, said the ICC investigation is “being pushed forward by an organization of dubious integrity” and accused Russia of having a role.

The order authorizes Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, in consultation with Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, to block assets in the United States of ICC employees involved in the probe, the official said.

It also authorizes Pompeo to block entry into the United States of these individuals.

Trump has repeatedly assailed The Hague-based ICC set up to prosecute war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity. It has jurisdiction only if a member state is unable or unwilling to prosecute atrocities itself.

Afghanistan is a member of the ICC, though Kabul has argued that any war crimes should be prosecuted locally. The U.S. government has never been a member of the court, established in 2002. The Trump administration imposed travel restrictions and other sanctions against ICC employees a year ago.

The ICC decided to investigate after prosecutors’ preliminary examination in 2017 found reasonable grounds to believe war crimes were committed in Afghanistan and that the ICC has jurisdiction.

The senior administration official, describing the order to a group of reporters on a conference call, said the directive authorizes sanctions against any individual directly engaged in any effort by the ICC to investigate U.S. personnel without American consent.

The official said the probe threatens to infringe on American sovereignty and that while the ICC was established to provide accountability, “in practice the court is an unaccountable, ineffective and out-of-control international bureaucracy that threatens American service members and intelligence officers and those of our allies.”

ICC prosecutor Fatou Bensouda wants to investigate possible crimes committed between 2003 and 2014, including alleged mass killings of civilians by the Taliban, as well as the alleged torture of prisoners by Afghan authorities and, to a lesser extent, by U.S. forces and the CIA.

“We have reason to believe there is corruption and misconduct at the highest levels of the ICC’s office of prosecutor, calling into question the integrity of this investigation into American personnel. We are concerned that Russia may be manipulating the ICC by encouraging these allegations into U.S. personnel,” the U.S. official said.
Reuters
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 07:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
‘I should not have been there,’ Milley says of Trump photo op.

The country’s top military official apologized on Thursday for taking part in President Trump’s walk across Lafayette Square for a photo op after authorities used tear gas and rubber bullets to clear the area of peaceful protesters.

“I should not have been there,” Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in a prerecorded video commencement address to National Defense University. “My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics.”

His first public remarks since Mr. Trump’s photo op, in which federal authorities attacked peaceful protesters so that the president could hold up a Bible in front of St. John’s Church, are certain to anger the White House, where Mr. Trump has spent the days since the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis taking increasingly tougher stances against the growing movement for change across the country.

On Wednesday, the president picked another fight with the military, slapping down the Pentagon for considering renaming Army bases named after Confederate officers who fought against the Union in the Civil War.

The back and forth between Mr. Trump and the Pentagon in recent days is evidence of the deepest civil-military divide since the Vietnam War — except this time, military leaders, after halting steps in the beginning, are now positioning themselves firmly with those calling for change.

Mr. Trump’s walk across Lafayette Square, current and former military leaders say, has sparked a critical moment of reckoning in the military.

“As a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that I have learned from,” General Milley said. He said he had been angry about “the senseless and brutal killing of George Floyd,” and repeated his opposition to Mr. Trump’s suggestions that federal troops be deployed nationwide to quell protests.

General Milley’s friends said that for the past 10 days, he had been agonized about appearing — in the combat fatigues he wears every day to work — behind Mr. Trump during the walk across Lafayette Square, an act that critics said gave a stamp of military approval to the hard-line tactics used to clear the protesters.

The general believed that he was accompanying Mr. Trump and his entourage to review National Guard troops and other law enforcement personnel outside Lafayette Square, Defense Department officials said.
NYT
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 08:30 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
His motives are immaterial, unknowable and irrelevant. Maybe he did it because his wife enjoyed black cocks a little too much. Who cares?

That is incorrect. Motive is the difference between the differing degrees of murder and manslaughter.


Olivier5 wrote:
The important thing is that the sanction must be exemplary so as to send a clear message to other cops. Period.

We are a nation of laws. The laws say what the penalty for manslaughter is.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 08:32 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
You lost me after "silly".

OK then, well try this:


Olivier5 wrote:
Palestine is one of the last surviving (and longest running) colonization attempt on the planet.

That is incorrect. Israeli has repeatedly offered land to the Palestinians over and over and over again.

All the Palestinians need to do in order to receive the land is agree to peace with Israel.

The Palestinians don't receive the land because they refuse to make peace with Israel.


Olivier5 wrote:
Deport people,

What deportations are these?

Not that I'd mind any deportations. The Palestinians refuse to make peace. They should be removed.

But I don't think it has actually happened.


Olivier5 wrote:
steal their land,

Israeli has repeatedly offered land to the Palestinians over and over and over again.

All the Palestinians need to do in order to receive the land is agree to peace with Israel.

The Palestinians don't receive the land because they refuse to make peace with Israel.


Olivier5 wrote:
and then shoot them when they revolt...

Israel has the right to protect themselves from an implacable enemy who refuses to make peace.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 09:03 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday issued an executive order authorizing sanctions against individuals involved in an International Criminal Court investigation into whether U.S. forces committed war crimes in Afghanistan.

A senior Trump administration official, without providing details, said the ICC investigation is “being pushed forward by an organization of dubious integrity” and accused Russia of having a role.

The order authorizes Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, in consultation with Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, to block assets in the United States of ICC employees involved in the probe, the official said.

It also authorizes Pompeo to block entry into the United States of these individuals.

Trump has repeatedly assailed The Hague-based ICC set up to prosecute war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity. It has jurisdiction only if a member state is unable or unwilling to prosecute atrocities itself.

Afghanistan is a member of the ICC, though Kabul has argued that any war crimes should be prosecuted locally. The U.S. government has never been a member of the court, established in 2002. The Trump administration imposed travel restrictions and other sanctions against ICC employees a year ago.

The ICC decided to investigate after prosecutors’ preliminary examination in 2017 found reasonable grounds to believe war crimes were committed in Afghanistan and that the ICC has jurisdiction.

The senior administration official, describing the order to a group of reporters on a conference call, said the directive authorizes sanctions against any individual directly engaged in any effort by the ICC to investigate U.S. personnel without American consent.

The official said the probe threatens to infringe on American sovereignty and that while the ICC was established to provide accountability, “in practice the court is an unaccountable, ineffective and out-of-control international bureaucracy that threatens American service members and intelligence officers and those of our allies.”

ICC prosecutor Fatou Bensouda wants to investigate possible crimes committed between 2003 and 2014, including alleged mass killings of civilians by the Taliban, as well as the alleged torture of prisoners by Afghan authorities and, to a lesser extent, by U.S. forces and the CIA.

“We have reason to believe there is corruption and misconduct at the highest levels of the ICC’s office of prosecutor, calling into question the integrity of this investigation into American personnel. We are concerned that Russia may be manipulating the ICC by encouraging these allegations into U.S. personnel,” the U.S. official said.
Reuters


The United States...and the rest of the world must be quickly rid of this disgusting abomination.

I hope the electorate will do the job in November.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 09:07 am
@oralloy,
Israel took Palestinian land within israel which they refuse to give back or make reparations for, not to mention all the land of Israel which they took without consulting or doing a deal with the Palestinians. they make illegal settlements of israelis in the occupied territories which they want to keep, and their offers of pittances of land come with not just strings but high tensile steel cables of conditions, which amount to virtual israeli control of most vital functions of life and autonomy. all the israeli offers offer israeli benefits and Palestinian losses. no wonder the Palestinians think israel and the usa are treacherous negotiating partners.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 09:10 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
which amount to virtual israeli control of most vital functions of life and autonomy.

That is what you do when you run a country.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 09:12 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
The United States...and the rest of the world must be quickly rid of this disgusting abomination.
I hope the electorate will do the job in November.

Mr. Trump protects America from progressives, so I'm going to vote for him.

That said, last I knew most of the progressives here on a2k had a similar opinion of the ICC that Mr. Trump has.

I personally trust the ICC to be fair and impartial in their investigations. You are the first person I've heard who sounds like they might agree with me on that.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 09:13 am
@coldjoint,
yep. that's what the israelis do, which is why the palestinians rightly want no part of it. think a little for a change.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 09:14 am
@MontereyJack,
If the Palestinians don't want to make peace, then they aren't going to get any more land.

The Gaza Strip can be the Palestinian state.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 09:18 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Israel took Palestinian land within israel which they refuse to give back or make reparations for,

Wrong again. Israel has offered to give land to the Palestinians. All the Palestinians need to do is agree to make peace and stop murdering people.


MontereyJack wrote:
they make illegal settlements of israelis in the occupied territories which they want to keep,

Hardly illegal. Since the Palestinians refuse to make peace, Israel gets to keep the land for themselves.


MontereyJack wrote:
and their offers of pittances of land

Denying what Israel offered to the Palestinians always reminds me of people who deny the Holocaust.


MontereyJack wrote:
come with not just strings but high tensile steel cables of conditions, which amount to virtual israeli control of most vital functions of life and autonomy.

All that Israel asks in exchange for the land is that the Palestinians make peace and stop murdering them.
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 09:26 am
@oralloy,
Pure bluster. The israeli offers are shams, deals that benefit israel and screwpalestinians for land israel illegally took in the first place.
 

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