192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 10:59 am
@revelette3,
Quote:
Yes if the shooter was a law-abiding citizen following the law about not bringing a gun to a public place, such as a church.

So what do you propose we do about non law-abiding citizens bringing a gun into a public place?
Quote:

If he wasn't a law-abiding citizen, that it is why I brought up background checks.

Which I am not opposed to.
Quote:
Most of the past mass shootings involved someone converting their legal gun into an illegal gun able to shoot like a machine gun or something of that sort.

You're just making that up, and you're not even aware of it. So how much more of what you will say should I take as fact?
Quote:
Moreover, we shouldn't be allowed to buy any guns that shoot a mass amount of bullets in a few minutes.

Yes, I understand your point about wanting to ban semiautomatic rifles.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:02 am
@georgeob1,
Speaking of autocratic oligarchs, who's the billionaire with the questionable financial past who claims he has the absolute right and power to do anything he wants and no one can stop him. It's not Bloomberg.
revelette3
 
  2  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:03 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
You're just making that up, and you're not even aware of it. So how much more of what you will say should I take as fact?


I couldn't make up a fact like that as it wouldn't occur to me as I don't know hardly anything about guns. I know I read about such in several articles after past shootings and it stuck in my memory. The Vegas shooting comes to my mind.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:06 am
@Glennn,
That's not Bloomberg's point. It's your mistaken point about it.
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:08 am
@revelette3,
Quote:
Most of the past mass shootings involved someone converting their legal gun into an illegal gun able to shoot like a machine gun or something of that sort.

Most? The Las Vegas shooter used twenty rifles with bump-stocks. Name the rest of the "most" you are referring to. Just name two . . .
revelette3
 
  3  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:12 am
@MontereyJack,
I hate to say this, but actually, Bloomberg's campaign manager claimed just the opposite and he thought it a good thing on MSNBC when he was defending some of Bloomberg's record as Mayor.

Quote:
Tim O’Brien, Bloomberg’s senior adviser, appeared on MSNBC on Sunday morning and tried to defend Bloomberg once again over stop-and-frisk, among other things. But, in so doing, he offered a damning and cautionary tale about the nature of the man. O’Brien said:

“I think he’s a stubborn man who has believed in a lot of social programs that he rammed through because he thought they were difficult, and he thought they were proper.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/16/opinion/michael-bloomberg-2020.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=OpEd%20Columnists

I dont think Bloomberg is sorry for Stop and Frisk at all and is now lying about being sorry for it. So the question is; do we ignore that and hope he can use the same tools (fighting fire with fire) as Trump to beat Trump? What would that make us?
Glennn
 
  1  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:23 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
That's not Bloomberg's point.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It may be true that someone in the congregation had his own gun and killed the person who murdered two other people. But it’s the job of law enforcement to have guns and to decide when to shoot. You just do not want the average citizen carrying a gun in a crowded place.”
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

He is expressing his opinion that it would have been better if someone would have called the cops and waited for them to arrive to stop a killer rather than have a legally armed citizen stop him. The truth is that the cops wouldn't have saved anyone. The armed citizen did!
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  3  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:29 am
@Glennn,
You shouldn't have asked that. I am fairly good at googling.


Quote:
CINCINNATI – Even though it looked like a rifle, the gun used to kill nine people and wound at least 14 more was likely classified as a pistol, skirting laws restricting short-barreled rifles.

Will the device on Connor Betts' weapon, called a "pistol brace," become the next bump stock in nation's gun control debate?

Here's what we know about the AR-15 style .223 caliber firearm used in the Dayton shooting Sunday:

It was legally purchased by Betts' from an online retailer in Texas. It then was transferred to him by a local firearms dealer who would be required to perform a background check, police said.

Nothing on Betts' criminal record would have prevented him from buying a gun.

He used legal-to-own 100-round drum magazines.

The lower receiver, which houses the trigger, was made by Anderson

Manufacturing in Hebron, Kentucky. Under federal law, the lower receiver is the gun. Purchasing a lower receiver requires a background check. All other parts of guns, such as barrels and stocks, can be bought legally off the shelf or online.

Betts could have had as many as 250 rounds in his possession; he fired at least 41 rounds in about 30 seconds.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/05/dayton-shooter-used-gun-may-have-exploited-legal-loophole/1927566001/

The following is from an article explaining why mass shooters choose the guns they do.

Quote:
▪ The same congressional report found one mass killing in which a semiautomatic rifle had been illegally converted into a fully automatic weapon. It happened in 2011 when a mentally challenged man entered a Nevada restaurant, killed four people and wounded another seven.


https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2019/05/19/How-do-mass-shooters-choose-weapons-semiautomatic-guns-mass-shootings/stories/201905080126

That is two.

georgeob1
 
  0  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:37 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

Speaking of autocratic oligarchs, who's the billionaire with the questionable financial past who claims he has the absolute right and power to do anything he wants and no one can stop him. It's not Bloomberg.
Clearly you are referring to Trump. However on rereading your description, and considering Bloomberg's ongoing effort to defy established DNC process and, as a late entry, simply buy the nomination through a massive advertising campaign paid for with his own (massive) funds and avidly supported by the news network that he owns, and which is named after him, it appears obvious to me that you are entirely incorrect, and that your description fits Mike Bloomberg equally well.statement
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:38 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
the shooter was an average citizen. no gun for him either.

You are projecting your own bad logic onto Bloomberg's words. Bloomberg clearly said that those law abiding church-goers should not have been permitted to carry guns to defend themselves.

And regarding your bad logic, laws against carrying guns in public are not going to deter someone who is willing to commit multiple counts of first degree murder (and quite probably commit suicide). Such killers will simply break those laws and carry their guns anyway.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:41 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
That's not Bloomberg's point. It's your mistaken point about it.

That is incorrect. You are projecting your own bad logic onto Bloomberg.

What Bloomberg said is that law abiding people should not be allowed to carry guns in public to defend themselves with.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:44 am
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:
Most of the past mass shootings involved someone converting their legal gun into an illegal gun able to shoot like a machine gun or something of that sort.

Hardly most. I defy you to come up with a second example besides that Nevada restaurant shooting that you linked.
Glennn
 
  0  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:45 am
@revelette3,
Quote:
I am fairly good at googling.

And fairly good at deceiving yourself. You have not provided any instances in which a modified rifle was used in a mass shooting. Unless you are referring to something like a sawed-off barrel. Is that what you're referring to as modified?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 11:46 am
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:
MJ point was if the shooter didn't have a gun in the first place, no shooting would have occurred so it wouldn't matter who stopped the shooter. Most of these shooters get their guns in a legal way and are not criminals. If people were not allowed to carry their guns in public places, no one would have had a gun as law-abiding citizens following the law. Get it now?

No one had trouble understanding what he said. It doesn't change the reality that his logic was highly flawed.

If people are not allowed to carry guns in public places, a shooter who is willing to commit multiple counts of first degree murder will freely ignore that law.

The bad guy will still have his gun in public. It is only the victims who will be unarmed in public.


revelette3 wrote:
Having better background checks would go a long way to having a better chance of keeping guns away from those who should not a gun in the first place. Those with mental issues which lend to violence or those with records of violence in their past. Also, making sure guns are not able to made into guns with the capability of shooting a mass amount of people in a few minutes would also help. Those are simple common-sense gun laws that I don't understand why anyone would object to them.

Those are entirely different issues from the question of forbidding law-abiding church goers from carrying guns.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 12:06 pm
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:
Quote:
▪ The same congressional report found one mass killing in which a semiautomatic rifle had been illegally converted into a fully automatic weapon. It happened in 2011 when a mentally challenged man entered a Nevada restaurant, killed four people and wounded another seven.
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2019/05/19/How-do-mass-shooters-choose-weapons-semiautomatic-guns-mass-shootings/stories/201905080126

That is two.

Actually it is one. Your first article did not have anything to do with a full-auto weapon of any sort, and certainly not an illegal conversion to a full-auto.

So there has been only one isolated incident of someone using an illegally-converted weapon in a massacre.

It's one more than I knew about, so good find. But such conversions are hardly a common problem.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 12:08 pm
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:
Moreover, we shouldn't be allowed to buy any guns that shoot a mass amount of bullets in a few minutes.

That has nothing to do with gun and everything to do with the size of the magazine that is inserted into the gun.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 12:19 pm
@oralloy,
wrong. as the test firing video I have posted several times proves, magazine size is not the determining factor, since a magazine change only takes aaround two seconds or a bit less, it's perfectly possible to kill or wound thirty people with 6 shot magazines in less than thirty seconds. This scales up to killoing or wounding a hundred people in about a minute and a half with even smal magazines, let alone a hundred round magazine. It's the deadly efficiency of the gun that's the problem.
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 12:22 pm
@oralloy,
congratulations on inadvertently making the point for strong gun control measures.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  4  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 12:30 pm
@MontereyJack,
Actually, it IS Bloomberg.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Mon 17 Feb, 2020 12:44 pm
@revelette3,
Quote:
So the question is; do we ignore that and hope he can use the same tools (fighting fire with fire) as Trump to beat Trump? What would that make us?

If it gets to that point, it would make us people who care about the quality of our judiciary, people who believe in legal protection for the environment, people who seek some restrictions on purchase, ownership, and use of firearms, and, most importantly, people who would prefer an ex-Republican centrist authoritarian to an ex-Democratic extremist authoritarian.
 

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