192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 03:40 pm
@Builder,
Quote:
Still butthurt over 2016, is what we're seeing across the pond.

You're obviously too far away to clearly see what's happening. Mr. Pence, who was also elected in 2016, would assume the presidency and the administration would remain the same. Our government is set up to handle these sorts of cases without "reversing" election results from the previous cycle.
hightor
 
  4  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 03:46 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
The Russians (and many other nations as well - including ours) have been using disinformation and other like devices to undermine potential opponents for many decades.

Since neither Russia nor China are democracies they are much less susceptible to the sort of disinformation campaigns and election meddling Russia has been actively running in Western Europe and the USA. I'm surprised you aren't more concerned with the effect Putin's efforts have had on the NATO alliance, which was once pretty unified and is now in danger of degenerating into a collection of squabbling states, some of which are on the road to authoritarianism.
Builder
 
  0  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 04:41 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Mr. Pence, who was also elected in 2016, would assume the presidency and the administration would remain the same.


We're aware of that outcome, also.

We're also aware that this impeachment fiasco has been the total focus of the upper echelon of the DNC, to the point where they haven't tabled, nor even formulated, an election platform, per se, for 2020; which means they've run off the rails, as a cohesive party unit.

georgeob1
 
  0  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 05:00 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
The Russians (and many other nations as well - including ours) have been using disinformation and other like devices to undermine potential opponents for many decades.

Since neither Russia nor China are democracies they are much less susceptible to the sort of disinformation campaigns and election meddling Russia has been actively running in Western Europe and the USA. I'm surprised you aren't more concerned with the effect Putin's efforts have had on the NATO alliance, which was once pretty unified and is now in danger of degenerating into a collection of squabbling states, some of which are on the road to authoritarianism.


If you have any specific evidence connecting Putin disinformation to the weakening of NATO, I'd like to see it. I doubt you can find any. On the contrary Putin has, by his seizure of the Crimea, adventures in the Donbass region of Ukraine, and blatant military exercises near the Baltic countries, done far more to unite NATO than disrupt it (Interestingly the NATO nations closest to Russia, Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary have formed their own independent military alliance.

I believe the weakening of NATO has far much more to do with the venality of European governments and their persistent failure to fund their military forces than anything Putin has done (they find it very hard to simultaneously meet EU deficit limitations and fund both their social programs and their military forces). Indeed Trump has already done more to rectify this situation than have any of his recent predecessors.

I believe your assertion of the reduced susceptibility of authoritarian governments, compared to Democracies is much exaggerated. The facts are mostly against you here.
hightor
 
  3  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 05:40 pm
@Builder,
The platform won't be finalized until the nominee is chosen. I don't think the 2016 platform was finalized until July. If the primaries are especially contentious the process may take even longer.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 05:41 pm
Nyet Tovarish
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 05:44 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
If you have any specific evidence connecting Putin disinformation to the weakening of NATO, I'd like to see it.

You have seen it:
NATO's Achilles Heel
Russia’s War on Truth in Eastern Europe

Trump Discussed Pulling U.S. From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia
Russia’s information warfare in Central and Eastern Europe:strategies, impact, countermeasures
The Great Russian Disinformation Campaign



RABEL222
 
  3  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 06:15 pm
@hightor,
Sorry. George is politically blind. He can't read anything that opposes his opinion.
Builder
 
  0  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 06:23 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
The platform won't be finalized until the nominee is chosen.


You're completely discounting the damage the DNC has done, in their inane and baseless impeachment games.

Probably more damaging than Hillary's "deplorables" rant.

Here's hoping they have the sense to shoo creepy Joe into the history books.

oralloy
 
  0  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 06:40 pm
@Builder,
They might. It was looking like Biden was going to be their nominee. But suddenly the voters of New Hampshire have swung their support away from him.

It's too early to say for sure. It might just be a brief fluctuation, perhaps in regards to the impeachment. But it's possible that Biden will be knocked out of the running (mathematically at least, even if he refuses to drop out) in New Hampshire.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 06:43 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
George is politically blind.

You really think that?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 07:25 pm
@Builder,
Quote:
You're completely discounting the damage the DNC has done...

You mistakenly attribute the impeachment hearings to the machinations of the DNC. The DNC doesn't control the political process; events do.
Quote:
...in their inane and baseless impeachment games.

While I'm not psychologically invested in any particular outcome, the prospect of future presidents sidelining the State Department, ignoring the national security establishment, dismissing the intelligence services, and vilifying the FBI raises legitimate concern in the minds of many USAmericans.

Not "inane".

And even the incomplete record available to the public provides a sufficient foundation for further investigation.

Not "baseless".

Don't look at this as a Clinton vs Trump, left vs right, Fox vs CNN hokum — we're watching the steadily quickening universal unraveling of the "social fabric" right before our eyes!
oralloy
 
  0  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 07:33 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
the prospect of future presidents sidelining the State Department, ignoring the national security establishment, dismissing the intelligence services, and vilifying the FBI raises legitimate concern in the minds of many USAmericans.

Such a concern might justify making a choice in the voting booth, but it doesn't justify an illegitimate impeachment.


hightor wrote:
Not "baseless".

There is no justification for removing the President from office. This lack of justification certainly sounds like "baseless" to me.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 08:30 pm
Trump Tied Ukraine Aid to Inquiries He Sought, Bolton Book Says

Quote:


WASHINGTON — President Trump told his national security adviser in August that he wanted to continue freezing $391 million in security assistance to Ukraine until officials there helped with investigations into Democrats including the Bidens, according to an unpublished manuscript by the former adviser, John R. Bolton.

The president’s statement as described by Mr. Bolton could undercut a key element of his impeachment defense: that the holdup in aid was separate from Mr. Trump’s requests that Ukraine announce investigations into his perceived enemies, including former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and his son Hunter Biden, who had worked for a Ukrainian energy firm while his father was in office.

Mr. Bolton’s explosive account of the matter at the center of Mr. Trump’s impeachment trial, the third in American history, was included in drafts of a manuscript he has circulated in recent weeks to close associates. He also sent a draft to the White House for a standard review process for some current and former administration officials who write books.

Multiple people described Mr. Bolton’s account of the Ukraine affair.

The book presents an outline of what Mr. Bolton might testify to if he is called as a witness in the Senate impeachment trial, the people said. The White House could use the pre-publication review process, which has no set time frame, to delay or even kill the book’s publication or omit key passages.

Over dozens of pages, Mr. Bolton described how the Ukraine affair unfolded over several months until he departed the White House in September. He described not only the president’s private disparagement of Ukraine but also new details about senior cabinet officials who have publicly tried to sidestep involvement.

For example, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo acknowledged privately that there was no basis to claims by the president’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani that the ambassador to Ukraine was corrupt and believed Mr. Giuliani may have been acting on behalf of other clients, Mr. Bolton wrote.

Mr. Bolton also said that after the president’s July phone call with the president of Ukraine, he raised with Attorney General William P. Barr his concerns about Mr. Giuliani, who was pursuing a shadow Ukraine policy encouraged by the president, and told Mr. Barr that the president had mentioned him on the call. A spokeswoman for Mr. Barr denied that he learned of the call from Mr. Bolton; the Justice Department has said he learned about it only in mid-August.

And the acting White House chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, was present for at least one phone call where the president and Mr. Giuliani discussed the ambassador, Mr. Bolton wrote. Mr. Mulvaney has told associates he would always step away when the president spoke with his lawyer to protect their attorney-client privilege.

During a previously reported May 23 meeting where top advisers and Senator Ron Johnson, Republican of Wisconsin, briefed him about their trip to Kyiv for the inauguration of President Volodymyr Zelensky, Mr. Trump railed about Ukraine trying to damage him and mentioned a conspiracy theory about a hacked Democratic server, according to Mr. Bolton.

(...)

antifanews
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 09:17 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

[While I'm not psychologically invested in any particular outcome, the prospect of future presidents sidelining the State Department, ignoring the national security establishment, dismissing the intelligence services, and vilifying the FBI raises legitimate concern in the minds of many USAmericans.

You have it all ass-backwards and have arrived at a conclusion that flies in the face of all the key significant facts.

Following the many now revealed deep state conspiracies against him, by unelected bureaucrats, ranging from Ambassadors and other State Department officials, senior officials of the FBI and Justice departments as well as the former Intelligence service agency heads,including Brennan and Clapper (now confirmed in the findings that the FISA applications that fueled the two-year Mueller Investigation were fabricated by senior government bureaucrats) , President Trump has ample reasons to distrust them all . Indeed these corrupt bureaucrats have, in their biased criminal behavior, amply demonstrated that they cannot be trusted at all by any future president. This is the most serious finding to emerge from the almost three years of continuous illicit investigations and assault on an elected President, who appeared to challenge the presumed autonomy of these unelected, self-important Mandarans, who unlawfully presumed that they alone held the keys to our government, and were empowered to attempt the destruction of an elected President..

This is by far the most serious finding in the conflicts attending the Trump Presidency, and serious corrective action is urgently needed. Compared to it the sanctimonious indignation of criminal petty bureaucrats, which so concerns you, is quite trivial.
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 09:19 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
While I'm not psychologically invested in any particular outcome, the prospect of future presidents sidelining the State Department, ignoring the national security establishment, dismissing the intelligence services, and vilifying the FBI raises legitimate concern in the minds of many USAmericans.

If they do not follow his policies they should be sidelined. Or fired. The intelligence agencies tried to get this guy, and active members are still at it. Last, the FBI was vilified by the IG.
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 09:25 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
President Trump has ample reasons to distrust them all.


Well, if he would tell the truth and act in the country's best interest instead of just his own, maybe he wouldn't feel so paralyzed with fear.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 09:44 pm
@neptuneblue,
I see no evidence that he is "paralyzed with fear". Do you ?
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 09:49 pm
@georgeob1,
Sure, tons of stupid insulting tweets, inability to focus, downplaying American injuries and a whole host of other childlike behavior.
Setanta
 
  3  
Sun 26 Jan, 2020 09:54 pm
@neptuneblue,
He's terrified that he won't get re-elected. He's pulling out all the stops--the anti-abortion rally, kissing Russian @ss, constant lying and defamation of any all critics. The real corker was his attack on the Iranian (for whom I had no sympathy), so he can look like a war president without actually going to war. He has, essentially, the profile of an egocentric, narcissistic adolescent who throws a fit whenever he can't get his way.
 

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