192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
hightor
 
  4  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 02:51 pm
@McGentrix,
The extension of voting rights to women and freedom for slaves was seen as fulfilling an unkept promise based on the highest ideals formulated by the founders and put into written text. A firearm, however, is just a lowly tool and there's nothing in the Constitution which specifies the types of legal weapons allowed. Since the role envisioned for the "militia" has been subsumed by a standing army there's no right to military-grade weapons and no implied promise that civilian weapons must steadily adopt technologies which increase their firepower and lethality.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 02:56 pm
@blatham,
Thank you as well.

Beware of what you are sure of.

The fact is I formulated my central ideas about the impeachment, on my own and soon after the Trump/Zelinsky call became an issue and, in the wake of the Mueller Report & testimony fiasco, the Democrats resumed their Impeachment crusade with renewed vigor, but diminished content.

The essence of the "crimes" attendant to this impeachment is the observations that (1) the President is responsible for conducting our Foreign Relations and enforcing our laws, equally both in situations that benefit him politically and in those that don't. (2) Financial corruption has been a long-standing feature of Ukrainian governance, and his recent action to increase our aid and military assistance to Ukraine gave Trump an added responsibility to address it, particularly in his first conversation with the newly elected President of that country - one who had campaigned on just that issue. (3) Former VP Biden's actions, both in Ukraine, where he forcefully intervened to cease that countries then ongoing corruption investigation, and later in China, created at least the serious appearance (an understatement in both cases) of a major conflict of interest with respect to his son's finances. As a direct result it was immediately important to Trump (or anyone as President) to correct that situation in this, his initial conversation with Ukraine's new president.

I was indeed gratified later, after the fatuous Impeachment articles were voted, to notice that Fox and others began formulating a similar argument. However in fact that was neither a surprise nor unusual. Most people think for themselves , and though it may be easy for you to assume that they may fit into the same categories as do the many political commentaries you frequent, they must necessarily have taken their ideas from them, that is not the case. Indeed it is a non sequitur of the first rank.

I believe that many people saw the situation in a similar light, though most don't have occasion to write their views down in threads like this one and on A2K. Indeed I believe this is the obvious and most likely interpretation of these events.

Far more intriguing are the starkly contrasting views and behaviors of Democrat impeachment zealots. They merit analysis and close examination precisely because they require so many unfounded assumptions and prejudgments by people who, because of them, have become immersed in an atmosphere of such disproportionate hysteria - a condition we have come to know as Trump Derangement Syndrome( actually it is merely the reaction of a complacent batch of established politicians, surprised and deranged by their loss of an expected election to a vulgar and highly disruptive opponent with better ideas then their own.).

I also do enjoy these conversations . We disagree but you are always persistent and often challenging.. More importantly, in spite of your many faults, I like you.

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 03:00 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
The extension of voting rights to women and freedom for slaves was seen as fulfilling an unkept promise based on the highest ideals formulated by the founders and put into written text.

The right to keep and bear arms is our highest ideal of all.


hightor wrote:
A firearm, however, is just a lowly tool and there's nothing in the Constitution which specifies the types of legal weapons allowed.

Strict scrutiny specifies that we have the right to have any weapon that there is no compelling government interest in restricting.


hightor wrote:
Since the role envisioned for the "militia" has been subsumed by a standing army there's no right to military-grade weapons

A semi-auto-only rifle is not a military grade weapon.

That said, if there is no compelling government interest in restricting access to a military grade weapon, then we have the right to have it.


hightor wrote:
and no promise that civilian weapons must adopt technologies which increase their firepower and lethality.

There is if there is no compelling government interest in restricting a given technology.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 03:02 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

A firearm, however, is just a lowly tool and there's nothing in the Constitution which specifies the types of legal weapons allowed.

You mean except for this part, right?

Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


hightor wrote:
Since the role envisioned for the "militia" has been subsumed by a standing army there's no right to military-grade weapons and no implied promise that civilian weapons must steadily adopt technologies which increase their firepower and lethality.


A semi-automatic rifle is not a military grade weapon. Just calling something an assault weapon doesn't make it so. Bullets kill people today the same way they did in 1776. Yet the government at the time decided that the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

See, it doesn't say the right of the militia to keep and bear arms, it says the right of the people.

snood
 
  5  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 03:24 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

snood wrote:
Who decides which guns the government has a "compelling interest" in restricting?

In theory, the Supreme Court. But in practice is it usually the NRA.


A special interest group decides which weapons the government has a compelling reason to regulate?
hightor
 
  4  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 03:28 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
...shall not be infringed.

Plenty of "arms" are available even without semi-autos. And states could choose to grant permits for them, even if you couldn't buy them off the shelf. It's not an infringement if you can't own a bazooka or machine gun so why should semi-autos be considered differently?
Quote:
A semi-automatic rifle is not a military grade weapon.

I didn't say it was, nor did I refer anywhere to "assault weapons". I purposely made a distinction between military weapons and guns for civilian use. I didn't used to favor restricting semi-autos until extended magazines became common and used in mass shootings. If they could be limited to six rounds, which is the maximum my state allows if you use a semi-auto for hunting I might think differently. But 20 and 30 round mags with high vel ammo is simply asking for trouble with minimal background checks, clandestine sales, and the number of kooks out there looking to make a name for themselves.
Quote:
...it says the right of the people.

Yeah, because it assumes the people will make up the militia.

Hey, McG, I'm not going to continue to argue about this in this thread because there are several gun threads where it would be more appropriate.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 03:29 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
But now this progress must stop?

Disarming law abiding citizens is regression.
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
oralloy
 
  -3  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 03:55 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Plenty of "arms" are available even without semi-autos.

That doesn't matter. So long as there is no compelling government interest in restricting semi-autos, such restrictions are unconstitutional.


hightor wrote:
It's not an infringement if you can't own a bazooka or machine gun so why should semi-autos be considered differently?

People can provide a compelling government interest to justify restricting bazookas and machine guns.

People cannot provide a compelling government interest to justify restricting semi-autos.


hightor wrote:
I didn't used to favor restricting semi-autos until extended magazines became common and used in mass shootings. If they could be limited to six rounds, which is the maximum my state allows if you use a semi-auto for hunting I might think differently. But 20 and 30 round mags with high vel ammo is simply asking for trouble with minimal background checks, clandestine sales, and the number of kooks out there looking to make a name for themselves.

Detachable rifle magazines can be limited to six rounds. All it takes is a law limiting them to six rounds.

Note also that there are non-semi-auto weapons out there that accept large detachable rifle magazines:
https://www.remington.com/news/2008/remington-model-7615-pump-action-rifle-now-available-durable-synthetic-carbine-version
https://web.archive.org/web/20180612064828/remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2009/5/20/remington-7615p-pump-action-rifle/

Note that despite the "law enforcement" marketing for the versions with pistol grips, they were sold to civilians.


hightor wrote:
I'm not going to continue to argue about this in this thread because there are several gun threads where it would be more appropriate.

No one is stopping you from posting your reply in a different thread. But since this is a thread about contemporary events, pretty much anything and everything is appropriate in this thread.

About the only thing that's not appropriate in this thread is blatham (as he promised to leave the thread).
revelette3
 
  1  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 04:06 pm
Three rockets hit near US embassy in Baghdad: security sources
hightor
 
  4  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 04:17 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
About the only thing that's not appropriate in this thread is blatham (as he promised to leave the thread).

No. He bequeathed it to the rest of us. Right generous of him, too.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 05:13 pm
@hightor,

Quote:
No. He bequeathed it to the rest of us.

Then doesn't he have to pass over, check out, meet his maker, and he will have of stopped lying then, before that happens?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 05:49 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
I know Sanders, Biden and Warren, and that's it. When it's known who'll be running then I'll give a ****, but I suspect our own leadership elections will be long over by then.

Biden is going to win the Democratic nomination. Sanders is going to give him a strong challenge though. All of the other Democratic candidates now have zero chance of being nominated.

Trump will be reelected.
Builder
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 06:06 pm
@oralloy,
If Creepy Joe is the best they've got, then the DNC is handing the election to Trump on a silver platter.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 06:09 pm
@Builder,
I don't know that he's the best. I assess Sanders to be much better. But Biden is the one that the voters will nominate.

Sanders is going to give him a strong challenge though. I'll be voting for Sanders in the Michigan primary.
Builder
 
  -1  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 06:17 pm
@oralloy,
It's just a shame that independents stand no chance, because Sanders doesn't really fit the DNC descriptor, so that's why he's unlikely to be their candidate ever.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 06:23 pm
Jan. 19, 2020. Contemporary event.

Quote:
Rotherham police chief admits ignoring child sex assault out of fear of being called racist

So this passes as policing? Cowards.
Quote:
A senior police officer admitted that his force ignored the sexual abuse of girls by Pakistani grooming gangs for decades because it was afraid of increasing “racial tensions”, a watchdog has ruled.

After a five-year investigation, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) upheld a complaint that the Rotherham officer told a missing child’s distraught father that the town “would erupt” if it was known that Asian men were routinely having sex with under-age white girls.

The chief inspector is said to have described the abuse as “P*** shagging” and to have said it had been “going on” for 30 years: “With it being Asians, we can’t afford for this to be coming out.”

30 years is a lot of children.
https://therightscoop.com/rotherham-police-chief-admits-ignoring-child-sex-assault-out-of-fear-of-being-called-racist/
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 07:28 pm
All that hand wringing and fear mongering about all the right wing racist militia groups invading Richmond today led to.... a peaceful demonstration with no violent outbreaks.

Ends up it was just about citizens not wanting their rights trampled. Go figure.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOvSJhKW4AgRsOc.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOvdXH5WsAAvw1o.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOvQLoyX4AYJDnq.jpg:large
coldjoint
 
  0  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 08:28 pm
@McGentrix,
Amazing all the hype. They still say it was white nationalists and supremacists. Looks like Anti-Fa thought it was not worth it. That is why it remained peaceful. I heard they stuck around and picked up things. Those bastards!!
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 20 Jan, 2020 09:33 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
Amazing all the hype. They still say it was white nationalists and supremacists.

Progressives don't like it when people resist their thuggery.
0 Replies
 
 

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