192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 03:58 pm
No strategy, just "text book strategy".

Quote:
On Wednesday, commentators and media figures praised Iran’s restraint and suggested Tehran had provided the president with a way to deescalate the conflict if he so chose, but this is a myopic and unfair assessment of how the Trump White House managed this crisis. This administration didn’t accidentally stumble its way into a textbook strategy for defusing a cascading spiral of violence against a revisionist adversary. It’s too soon to say if Iran is once again deterred, but there is reason to be cautiously optimistic. If there is any credit to be doled out at this early stage, it’s the Trump administration, not the Mullahs, who deserve it.

Some commentary, and not from a liberal hack.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/foreign-policy/middle-east/iran/has-iran-blinked/
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  3  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 04:19 pm
@BillW,
Was it war crimes when Obama started bombing and using drones in 5 countries more than Bush, or was that fine because it was Obama?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 04:32 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
(...)He was a military commander. Military commanders have plans to kill their enemies. And the United States is Iran’s enemy, reneging on the nuclear agreement and choking its economy, impoverishing and immiserating civilians who have nothing to do with, and no say in, their government’s policy.

Is Iran a brutal, murderous, repressive regime that tramples the rights of women and minorities? No doubt. But so is Saudi Arabia, and we have managed to work with that regime. Iran is just as critical to the long-term stability of the region.

Forty years is a long time for the United States to be without a diplomatic presence in a country, and Iran bears the blame for severing those relations. But the dangerous, disproportionate assassination of General Suleimani may have shut the diplomatic door for many more decades.


Objective analysis shouldn't be equated with sympathy. Conservatives want everyone to make rabid denunciations of our enemies and pass a purity test before we say anything else or we're "sympathetic" to terrorists. (Libs do something similar concerning "their" issues— it's a political defect common to humans, I guess.) But in any case, understanding your enemy's motives is important; it requires some effort to look at the world through his eyes but it's a useful strategy and it doesn't mean you subscribe to his hostile viewpoint or permanently assume his inimical perspective.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 05:24 pm
@hightor,
Trump is a military commander. Military commanders have plans to kill their enemies. And Iran is the United States' enemy, reneging on the nuclear agreement and supporting global terrorism, impoverishing and immiserating civilians who have nothing to do with, and no say in, their government’s policy.

By Geraldine's own logic, Trump did the right thing. It's because she doesn't see Soleimani as a bad guy, but as a hero that should be held up as a shining beacon of hope that makes her a sympathizer.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 05:52 pm
@McGentrix,
Who is Geraldine?
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 07:26 pm
@glitterbag,
Geraldine is one of those weirdo progressives. You can tell by the way she hates America and loves terrorists.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 07:27 pm
Quote:
NYT‘s Paul Krugman Says Hacker Downloaded ‘Child Pornography’ Using His IP Address

Think the NYT will fire him?
https://www.mediaite.com/print/nyts-paul-krugman-says-hacker-downloaded-child-pornography-using-his-ip-address/
hightor
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 08:02 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
And Iran is the United States' enemy, reneging on the nuclear agreement and supporting global terrorism, impoverishing and immiserating civilians who have nothing to do with, and no say in, their government’s policy.


Interestingly, the Iranians see it differently. The USA is Iran's enemy, reneging on the nuclear agreement and supporting the Saudi regime, impoverishing and immiserating Iranians who have nothing to do with, and no say in, their government’s policy by isolating the country and sanctioning the life out of it. Gee, who'd've thought???

Quote:
It's because she doesn't see Soleimani as a bad guy, but as a hero that should be held up as a shining beacon of hope that makes her a sympathizer.

You're seriously wrong here; she's not saying that at all. She's explaining why Iranians think of him that way. See, they look at it the opposite of the way we do. They see him as a martyred hero. That's not Brooks's fault.
oralloy
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 08:16 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Objective analysis shouldn't be equated with sympathy.

Denouncing harm that America has caused to Iran while deliberately avoiding the important context that every bit of that harm was a direct result of Iran's aggression is not objective analysis.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 08:19 pm
@BillW,
BillW wrote:
Beginning to look like we might have war crimes going on here..... tRump has successfully made the USA look like villains and Iran victims. Way to go asshole!

No. Only progressives think it looks that way. Real people don't think it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 08:22 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
Why do you guys on the left love terrorists so much?

It's because terrorists and progressives share the same blind hatred of freedom and democracy. Progressives see terrorists and evil dictators as fellow travelers in their ideological war against humanity.

Also because progressives like it when Americans are killed, and terrorists kill Americans.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 09:10 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
Quote:
NYT's Paul Krugman Says Hacker Downloaded 'Child Pornography' Using His IP Address

Think the NYT will fire him?

The KGB (or whatever they call themselves now) has a history of performing such hacks against prominent people in nations that Putin opposes.

They even have a term for it: Kompromat

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat
McGentrix
 
  2  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 09:13 pm
@hightor,
I get that. I do. However, it was posted here as some kind of justification of why America is bad.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 09:15 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
They even have a term for it: Kompromat

Just pointing out the double standard. If Krugman was not a shill for the Left he would be front page news and already found guilty. I bet he will not be required to prove his innocence.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 10:06 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

[
Interestingly, the Iranians see it differently. The USA is Iran's enemy, reneging on the nuclear agreement and supporting the Saudi regime, impoverishing and immiserating Iranians who have nothing to do with, and no say in, their government’s policy by isolating the country and sanctioning the life out of it. Gee, who'd've thought???

Quote:
It's because she doesn't see Soleimani as a bad guy, but as a hero that should be held up as a shining beacon of hope that makes her a sympathizer.

You're seriously wrong here; she's not saying that at all. She's explaining why Iranians think of him that way. See, they look at it the opposite of the way we do. They see him as a martyred hero. That's not Brooks's fault.


Do you really know how "Iranians" feel about Soleimani ? If so can you provide some confirming reference for what you wrote here?

The recent widespread demonstrations by Iranians across the country expressing opposition to the government and (I expect) primarily against its domestic policies, suggest the opposite. These demonstrations were forcefully put down by the ruling party's Quds Force (something like Roem's SA brownshirts in Nazi Germany) which was, until a couple of days, ago run by the late Soleimani. it is reported that 1,200 to 1,500 Iranian citizens were killed in the effort. Hard to believe in view of these facts that either the Islamist Party or the late General are widely loved and admired there.

Similar demonstrations and uprisings developed in Iran early in Obama's first term. Instead of expressing support for the obvious aspirations of the Iranian pubic he simply ignored them, and then embarked on his apology tour across the Islamic world. The result of that, and his subsequent fatuous negotiations with Iran, gave this repressive and intolerant regime a new lease on life. A rather sharp contrast with Trump's likely far more effective handling of similar events.
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 10:51 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
Trump is a military commander.

This was an actual sentence that appeared above.

And lo, there was heard by all a great shout of trumpets! And with the grinding of chains, the drawbridge descended to welcome the return of Caesar!
BillW
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 10:54 pm
@blatham,
Sick joke, he is on par with Qasem Soleimani, except tRump is a sick, stupid Monster who has such a problem leading his little prick out of his pants with his little hands he has a special attendant to do it for him.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 10:57 pm
@blatham,
He's Commander in Chief.....that's part of the office of President....but he falls waaaaaaaaaaay short of being a military commander. He thinks going to a military style coed boarding school makes him a military man.......Oh well!
BillW
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 11:12 pm
@glitterbag,
Now, we make room for the tRump kiss asses, ta-da.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRv9ksDiSPc6rL0F0UVyvba8ARdvVeYqSQ2CzXwaQWHd8ckAQ4srQ&s
Sorry boys (and, I didn't say Elroy), I won't see you genuflecting cause you are irrelevant to reality; but debase yourselves and go for it!
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2020 11:26 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
He's Commander in Chief..

until 2025. Iran now has to think before they kill one American. They are scared shitless. When that happens Trump's retaliation will be the end of the regime because the Iranian people will not take it anymore.
0 Replies
 
 

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