192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
coluber2001
 
  5  
Thu 19 Dec, 2019 10:14 pm
Evangelical publication calls for Trump's removal from office

(CNN) - A leading Christian magazine founded by late evangelist Billy Graham -- father of key presidential supporter Franklin Graham -- published an op-ed on Thursday calling for President Donald Trump to be removed from office and urging evangelicals not to support him.

"Whether Mr. Trump should be removed from office by the Senate or by popular vote next election—that is a matter of prudential judgment," Christianity Today's editor in chief, Mark Galli, wrote in the op-ed. "That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments."

Galli continued, "We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president's moral deficiencies for all to see."

Galli continued, "We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president's moral deficiencies for all to see.""None of the president's positives can balance the moral and political danger we face under a leader of such grossly immoral character," he added.
The publication, an influential one among evangelicals, has criticized Trump before on immigration and other issues, but never before called for his removal. The op-ed shows potential reasoning for dissent among a key faction of the Republican coalition as Trump prepares for a potential Senate trial following his impeachment by the House of Representatives Wednesday night.

"To the many evangelicals who continue to support Mr. Trump in spite of his blackened moral record, we might say this: Remember who you are and whom you serve," Galli wrote. "Consider how your justification of Mr. Trump influences your witness to your Lord and Savior. Consider what an unbelieving world will say if you continue to brush off Mr. Trump's immoral words and behavior in the cause of political expediency."

The magazine's web servers were strained by all the web traffic when the editorial came out on Thursday afternoon. After some temporary hiccups, service was mostly restored.

Jim Wallis, one of the nation's most prominent liberal evangelical leaders, called the op-ed's stance a "huge, watershed event," adding that the magazine is arguably the leading evangelical magazine in the nation.

"What CT is saying in their editorial is removing Donald Trump from office is now a matter of faith, not politics, and I agree," Wallis told CNN.

Wallis, founder of Sojourners magazine, says evangelicals made a "Faustian" bargain with Trump -- appoint the federal judges we want and we will look the other way.

"They have made the Faustian bargain that no matter what he does, it's all acceptable because he gives them the judges he wants," says Wallis, author of "Christ in Crisis: Why We Need to Reclaim Jesus."

As far as the impact of the announcement, Wallis says it may impact two groups of evangelicals the most: suburban white women and younger evangelicals who are already jaded by older evangelicals' embrace of Trump.

"I bet there are going to be a lot of younger evangelicals who are going to be really excited," Wallis said about the editorial.

He says there are now cracks in the wall of evangelical support for Trump. The call for removal may not sway the majority of evangelicals but just enough to make a difference in the 2020 election.

"You don't need a whole lot to shift the race, just a few votes in key places in key states could make the ultimate difference" Wallis said.

Builder
 
  -3  
Thu 19 Dec, 2019 10:32 pm
@coluber2001,
Quote:
Evangelical publication calls for Trump's removal from office


Good thing there's a separation between church (cough-cough) and state.

I smell some new taxes on the way for these (ahem) "churches".
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Thu 19 Dec, 2019 10:49 pm
@coluber2001,
Quote:
Evangelical publication calls for Trump's removal from office

How about a source we can link to? This guy is looking for his fifteen minutes of fame. And all the money that comes with it.
Quote:
"We believe the impeachment hearings have made it absolutely clear, in a way the Mueller investigation did not, that President Trump has abused his authority for personal gain and betrayed his constitutional oath. The impeachment hearings have illuminated the president's moral deficiencies for all to see."

That sounds like it is coming out Schiff. Democratic talking points by an opportunistic sycophant. Of course CNN will put on anyone.
Builder
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 03:25 am


Shot down in flames again, Schiff and Pelosi.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 03:58 am
@Builder,
Maybe some Christians just realized that they could burn in hell for all eternity if they keep supporting the devil's work...
Builder
 
  -2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 04:56 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Maybe some Christians just realized that they could burn in hell for all eternity


LOL. You've always been rather simple-minded.

Hang in there, kiddo.

An eternity basking at the feet of the almighty awaits you.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 05:46 am


Fizzer again, Schiffty??
0 Replies
 
lmur
 
  3  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 07:30 am
Apropos of **** all:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/12/18/no-wakanda-is-not-trumps-next-tariff-target-despite-being-removed-us-free-trade-list/
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 07:39 am
@coldjoint,
"ask and ye shall..."

Evangelical publication calls for Trump's removal from office

Merry Christmas
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 07:49 am
@revelette3,
A brave step. Well done.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 08:56 am
One of the more silly defenses of Trump's phone call with Zelensky that Trump and Republican supporters advanced recently - that his use of "We" and "us" in "We need you to do us a favor" was that he was referring to America, not to himself.

Jon Chait points out how Trump, in his rally speech the night he was impeached, used "we" and "us" a bunch of times in the first person plural mode.
Quote:
...Seizing upon a passage in the transcript of the phone call where he asked Ukraine’s president to investigate the Bidens, Trump highlighted his use of the word us, employing the argument repeatedly. “With the word ‘us’ I am referring to the United States, our Country,” he tweeted earlier this month. “I said do us a favor, not me, and our country, not a campaign,” he wrote in his diatribe to Nancy Pelosi, showing a heretofore absent gusto for Talmudic analysis.

But Trump couldn’t even keep this line straight in his head long enough to last through the impeachment vote itself. At his rally (scheduled last night during the vote, to soothe his psychic pain and presumably distract him from acting out in more destructive fashion), Trump repeatedly used the first-person plural to describe himself. “It doesn’t really feel like we’re being impeached,” he said. “We did nothing wrong. We did nothing wrong and we have tremendous support in the Republican Party, like we’ve never had before, nobody’s ever had this kind of support … The people are trying to impeach us for doing all of the things that they’ve wanted to do for so many years.”
NYMag
revelette3
 
  2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 09:03 am
@blatham,
Takes us back to the "depending what "Is" is" moment.
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 09:09 am
@revelette3,
Though both word-weaseling cases vastly different in real-world consequences. And let's note that Clinton did not subsequently have an entire partisan media world tied into party operations that promoted his "defense" - "Like he said, what's meant by "is" anyway?" Nothing like that happened.

Whereas Fox etc and GOP house members universally echoed Trump's lie in unison.
revelette3
 
  2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 09:17 am
Quote:
WASHINGTON — The day after the House cast historic votes to impeach President Trump, Speaker Nancy Pelosi put an abrupt halt on the proceedings, holding back from sending the charges to the Republican-led Senate in a politically risky bid to exert influence over the contours of an election-year trial.

With some leading Democrats pushing to delay transmittal of the articles and others advocating that they be withheld altogether, the limbo is likely to persist until the new year. The House left town on Thursday for a two-week holiday recess without taking the votes to appoint impeachment managers, which is required to start the process in the Senate.

“We are ready,” said Ms. Pelosi, who has said she would not send the charges or name the lawmakers who would prosecute the case against Mr. Trump until she was certain of a fair process for a Senate trial. “When we see what they have, we will know who and how many we will send over.”

By withholding the articles, Ms. Pelosi is hoping that Mr. Trump — who is eager for a trial to present his defense and clear his name — will put pressure on Senator Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, to commit to Democratic demands, including the ability to call witnesses during the trial.

But the speaker’s strategy is also a gamble. Having toiled to present the House impeachment inquiry and the votes on Wednesday as a somber duty rooted in the Constitution, Ms. Pelosi risks appearing to politicize the matter if she withholds the charges for negotiating leverage.

And Mr. McConnell was entirely unmoved by Ms. Pelosi’s tactics, delivering a speech on Thursday evening in which he appeared barely able to contain his amusement at what he regarded as the speaker’s missteps.

“I admit, I am not sure what leverage there is in refraining from sending us something we do not want,” Mr. McConnell said with a wry smile from the Senate floor. “But alas, if they can figure that out, they can explain it. Meanwhile, other House Democrats say they would prefer never to transmit the articles. Fine with me!”

The wrangling came on yet another day of raw nerves and partisan jabs in a Capitol still reeling from the vote to approve two articles of impeachment against Mr. Trump — one charging abuse of power, the other charging obstruction of Congress — in connection with his campaign to pressure Ukraine to investigate his political rivals.

The Senate trial is the next step, as dictated by the Constitution. But to prompt that proceeding, Ms. Pelosi must transmit the articles and name impeachment managers who will make the case in the Senate. And for now, the two parties are at loggerheads.

Mr. McConnell has both infuriated Democrats and complicated the picture for them by asserting that he has no intention of acting as an impartial juror in a Senate trial of Mr. Trump, but would instead do everything in his power, working in concert with the White House, to quickly acquit the president.

Still, Mr. McConnell has a challenging political balance to strike, as well. With a slim majority and a small group of moderates and politically vulnerable Republicans in his ranks who might want to hear from witnesses or otherwise ensure a balanced proceeding, he will have to find consensus on how to move forward. On Thursday, he and Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York and the minority leader, spoke for the first time about the parameters of a trial, but the talks went nowhere.

“As of today, however, we remain at an impasse,” Mr. McConnell said during his speech. Earlier in the day, he delivered a blistering attack on Democrats, assailing their case as weak and “shoddy work,” and promising that the Senate would “put this right” by acquitting the president.

Ms. Pelosi shot back: “I don’t think anybody expected that we would have a rogue president and a rogue leader in the Senate at the same time.”

With few precedents — Mr. Trump is only the third president to be impeached — the process to determine the shape of the trial is one of malleable rules and negotiations. The Senate stalemate suggested that rather than rise above the partisan vitriol that permeated the House’s impeachment inquiry and its vote on Wednesday, the Senate — traditionally the cooler-headed chamber — may replicate it.

At the White House on Thursday, there was some evidence that Mr. Trump was rattled by Ms. Pelosi’s delay.

The president quizzed one adviser after another about what they thought the speaker was up to. He posed the same question in an early-morning telephone call to one of his closest Senate allies, Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, who later said that Mr. Trump was “mad as hell” about Democrats’ hold.

“I just met with the president, and he is demanding his day in court,” Mr. Graham said on Fox News.

Mr. Trump confirmed that sentiment himself a short time later on Twitter, accusing Democrats of treating him unfairly and demanding his case be heard in the Senate.

“So after the Democrats gave me no Due Process in the House, no lawyers, no witnesses, no nothing, they now want to tell the Senate how to run their trial,” he tweeted. “Actually, they have zero proof of anything, they will never even show up. They want out. I want an immediate trial!”

The House did offer Mr. Trump and his lawyers a chance to participate in the latter stages of the impeachment proceedings, but he declined to take them up.

But the political stakes for Ms. Pelosi are high. Moderate Democrats in Trump-friendly districts have already put themselves in political jeopardy by voting to impeach the president, and they can ill afford to go home for the holidays looking as though their party is playing politics with something as grave as a Senate impeachment trial.

“It makes sense to try to have an understanding of what the structure is going to look like in the Senate,” said one of those moderates,

Representative Elissa Slotkin, Democrat of Michigan. But, she added, “I hope this is handled expeditiously.”

And in comments that underscored the risks Ms. Pelosi faces in withholding the articles, Mr. McConnell took to the Senate floor on Thursday morning and argued that the delay reflected a weak case against Mr. Trump, a blink by the Democrats in their standoff with the president.

“The prosecutors are getting cold feet in front of the entire country and second-guessing whether they even want to go to trial,” Mr. McConnell said. “They said impeachment was so urgent that it could not even wait for due process, but now they’re content to sit on their hands. This is comical.”

He has already rejected a detailed plan set forth by Mr. Schumer, who proposed a trial beginning Jan. 7 that would give each side a fixed amount of time to present its case. Mr. Schumer called for four top White House officials who have not testified — including Mick Mulvaney, Mr. Trump’s acting chief of staff, and John R. Bolton, the president’s former national security adviser — to appear.

“Is the president’s case so weak that none of the president’s men can defend him under oath?” Mr. Schumer asked in a speech on the Senate floor on Thursday morning, describing Mr. McConnell’s remarks as a “30-minute partisan screed.”

The back-and-forth came as Congress toggled between impeachment-related matters and a rash of year-end legislation. The House approved a new North American trade pact and temporarily repealed a tax increase on high-earning residents in certain states. Ms. Pelosi, seeking to spotlight the diverse Democratic freshman class, brought some of its members to a year-end news conference, where they stood behind a stack of House-passed bills that, Democrats complain, are languishing on Mr. McConnell’s desk in the Senate.

But the looming Senate trial was top of mind for many, with some leading Democrats casting doubt on whether it would happen at all. Representative James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, the No. 3 House Democrat, told CNN on Thursday morning that he was willing to wait “as long as it takes” to transmit the two impeachment articles approved Wednesday night.

“Until we can get some assurances from the majority leader that he is going to allow for a fair and impartial trial to take place, we would be crazy to walk in there knowing he has set up a kangaroo court,” Mr. Clyburn said.

“If you have a preordained outcome that is negative to your actions, why walk into it?” he said. “I would much rather not take that chance.”

Addressing reporters after Wednesday night’s vote, Ms. Pelosi did not suggest that she was contemplating holding the articles forever. And while she did not say explicitly what she believes would constitute a fair trial, she indicated she would support the plan laid out by Mr. Schumer.

“We’d like to see a trial where it’s up to the senators to make their own decisions and working together, hopefully, in recognition of witnesses that the president withheld from us, the documents that president withheld from us,” Ms. Pelosi said.

Advisers to Mr. Trump insisted that despite his push for witnesses with some people, he realized that there was no mechanism for calling them without 51 votes to approve them, and he had made his peace with that.

Instead, he hopes that some of the Senate committees, including the Judiciary Committee that Mr. Graham leads, can hold hearings that will allow certain witnesses to be called. And he is still preparing for a trial, making clear to advisers that Pat A. Cipollone, his White House counsel, will lead any defense for the White House, with an open question as to who assists from the outside.

Privately, people close to Mr. Trump said his lawyers were reviewing all options. But they pointed to a Bloomberg Opinion article by Noah Feldman, a Harvard University law professor who testified during the impeachment inquiry at the behest of Democrats, that asserted that for a president to be impeached, the House “must actually send the articles and send managers to the Senate to prosecute the impeachment.”

“And the Senate must actually hold a trial,” he wrote.

Ms. Pelosi, one Trump adviser said, cannot “have it both ways.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/19/us/politics/impeachment-trump-senate-trial.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

So Pelosi is attempting to play monkey on the handlebars, but McConnell refuses to play. He reckons without what the handlebars want. In other clear words, McConnell might not want a trial at all, probably last thing he wants to deal with, any of it, but Trump wants his day in court, and Pelosi knows it. He won't be satisfied with little hearings, he wants the same of what he had to deal watching the impeachment in the House, only one in the Senate which vindicates him and paints the House and it's witnesses as the Witch Hunters they are in his eyes and he wants Joe Biden to have to testify so the Senate can paint him as corrupt and Trump right to make the "perfect" phone call to Ukraine.
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 09:26 am
Quote:
...The day after Donald Trump's impeachment, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) delivered prepared remarks on his chamber's floor for quite a while, largely focusing on condemning the House majority for taking action against his party's president.

There was, however, one word McConnell used over and over again.

Quote:
"The House's vote yesterday was not some neutral judgment that Democrats came to reluctantly. It was the pre-determined end of a partisan crusade... Long after the partisan fever of this moment has broken, the institutional damage will remain.... A political faction in the lower chamber have succumbed to partisan rage. [emphasis added]"


Yes, Kentucky's senior senator has seen recent political developments, and he's eager to tell the public how concerned he is about "partisanship."
Benen

McConnell is doing marketing/propaganda here, of course. He knows what he's spouting is bullshit but it is a key element to the propaganda line being pushed across the right which tries to convince citizens (particularly the Trump/Republican voting base) that everything associated with impeachment derives from Dem and leftist irrational hatred. It's a lamplighting disinformation campaign designed to convince that any evidence revealed can be ignored.

That rationale/technique here is essentially the same one used in the right's decades-long strategy of labeling all media output which doesn't originate in right wing sources is "biased left" and can be or must be ignored.

0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  3  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 09:29 am
@blatham,
True, wouldn't have Clinton had loved to have had a Fox News and the rest of the conservative news successfully completely in his corner? To the point where he felt comfortable to actually scold them if they got out of line? I mean somehow or another, Trump has such power over the conservatives of any occupation to the point where they pay a price if they step out of line in public. For example, the Evangelical Magazine just out.
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 09:45 am
Heather Digby Parton is an amazing individual. She's certainly one of the very best political bloggers/writers/thinkers around and has gained wide and deep respect. She's a very capable writer and her output may well exceed anyone else doing political writing/analyses.

Quote:
I watched the debate last night and had the odd feeling that I was watching a documentary from another time. People were standing up on a stage talking about serious issues with intelligence and empathy. After the events of this week, I felt just a little bit unbalanced by it. It just seemed so weirdly normal.

I had to stop and ask myself what normal is anymore. We've become so inured to daily freakshow I fear that informed people talking about policy are the weirdos now. It certainly seemed a bit surreal, at least until I adjusted and started listening and it felt like a comfortable old pair of shoes I hadn't worn in a while. It was frankly, a relief. They were fine.

Democratic primaries are my least favorite part of politics even though I know they are important and I respect the process. But this time, in particular, I just can't get too invested in a particular outcome. I greatly admire Elizabeth Warren and I'll be thrilled if she wins but I made a promise to myself that I would keep an open mind about everyone in the race and try to be enthusiastic about whoever comes out on top. So, watching these debates is a sort of academic exercise.

I am struck with what a monumental job any of them will be facing if they defeat Trump. It's much more than the aspirational progressive policy agenda, as big as that is. Climate change and income inequality alone are massive problems that simply cannot wait if we are to survive. But he or she is also going to have to rebuild some kind of trust in the institutions of government and reform it from the bottom up. It will take years of effort by the whole party.

Trump has exposed more than the decadence and emptiness of the GOP. He's exposed the weaknesses in our democracy and those weaknesses are going to be just sitting there waiting for further exploitation unless we take on an agenda of serious political reform.

I don't have the answers to all that. It's a gigantic undertaking with hundreds of moving parts. And it's not as if the other side is going to disappear. (I doubt that they will take losing this presidency with grace and dignity, if you know what I mean.) I don't know if the Democratic party is up to the task but it's what we have to work with.

Whoever wins the nomination is going to need all hands on deck to beat Trump and then stay engaged for the hard work it's going to take to create a new and better country. I might take a few weeks to recoup. But after that, I'm game.

How about you?
Here

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zbAMcYLDKQE/XfvB796pLYI/AAAAAAAAAdw/nj256X03KG4cvPbSTex5x1ILe7vFj8y3ACNcBGAsYHQ/s640/Screenshot%2B2019-12-19%2Bat%2B10.27.11%2BAM.png
revelette3
 
  2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 10:06 am
@blatham,
I am with her, I am not particularly invested in any individual in this democrat primary. I'll support whoever it is and hope and pray and whatever else might work, they win against Trump. And then, it probably will be like after a war or something when it's done if whoever it is wins against Trump.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 11:18 am
@revelette3,
That's a big IF. It's amusing to see a Democrat blogger worrying about how well the Republicans may accept a defeat in the (unlikely) event of their defeat in the coming election, particularly following the hysterical denial and derangement that occurred among Democrats following Trump's victory in 2016. That said, such projection is their favorite pastime.

The current, Democrat-led Congress has wasted its term and ignored its legislative responsibilities in a series of investigations, all accompanied by frenetic hyperbole about dark underground conspiracies about to be unveiled, and all so far revealing very little. However, propelled by their continuing preconceptions, Democrats have largely made fools of themselves excitedly making much of very little.

After nearly three years of continuous investigation some of it involving likely illegal misuse of government agencies and lawful procedures, the prosecution in this case has made only a very weak case for conviction. It now wants to control all aspects of the trial in a continued search for criminal misdeeds that have eluded them so far. This is remarkable in view of their earlier decision to move forward with their investigation without waiting for the normal judicial review of their demands for internal communications within the President's staff, materially normally protected by Executive privilege.

I don't know what Republicans will do in the current impasse, but I recommend they simply wait, go on with the business of government and addressing. as they have done, the serious issues facing the country, and tending to the continuation of our continuing economic boom (now in the face of a growing worldwide slowdown). Waiting will simply allow the tightly controlled, but sloppy investigation they delivered to start stinking in the sunlight.
farmerman
 
  3  
Fri 20 Dec, 2019 11:23 am
@georgeob1,
I hope the good people of Michigan recall what kind of a slime bucket Plump relly is.
Can you expand on what was going in his mind when he insults the dead, especially well liked ones like McCain and Dingell?

His attempts at "humor" wrt Cng. Dingell (and his widow) are really over the top for a public official. In Pa voters have run township supervisors out for saying stuff like that.
 

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