192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 02:35 pm
@oralloy,
No. It's where racist bigots think despite the obvious evidence to the contrary that all Muslims want to murder them. So they hate a billion people..
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 02:49 pm
@MontereyJack,
Certainly not all Muslims want to murder people.

But a disturbingly large number of them want to murder anyone who they imagine has insulted Islam.

And a disturbingly large number of them want to be able to murder their daughters if they go on a date with a boy.

And a disturbingly large number of them celebrate and gloat when some other Muslim brutally massacres a bunch of civilians (although I guess they share this characteristic with a disturbingly large number of liberals).

All of them? No. Of course not. But enough that there is a big problem within Islam that needs to be addressed by the civilized world.
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 03:18 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
But enough that there is a big problem within Islam that needs to be addressed by the civilized world.

Exactly. That has been all I have been saying by explaining what those enough believe and why. That is not racist. It is a warning this problem is not going away and that the more Islam means the more terror.

It amounts to a very uncomfortable factual reality when people ignore this problem or deny it completely. Also it is apologists that insist it means all Muslims, not me.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  4  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 05:20 pm
https://pics.onsizzle.com/under-president-trump-our-country-is-moving-in-an-authoritarian-23745962.png
Real Music
 
  5  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 05:31 pm
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/19/32/4d/19324d416d39e08ea9451f6def611f43--bok-chips.jpg
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 05:38 pm
@Real Music,
Projection. The Left are the violent fascists.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Thu 22 Nov, 2018 07:19 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:

https://pics.onsizzle.com/under-president-trump-our-country-is-moving-in-an-authoritarian-23745962.png

The problem is that B Sanders promotes socialism, which is itself a form of authoritarianism that controls the economy for the sake of preventing people from saving money and not spending it until they're ready. Growth-stimulus causes inflation, and inflation forces people into the jobs that get created by the growth. That is DIRECT economic authoritarianism because it forces people into economic labor instead of allowing them to choose how much they need to work based on how much they CHOOSE to spend or save.
Builder
 
  -3  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 02:53 am
@livinglava,
Quote:
The problem is that B Sanders promotes socialism


Are you going to completely ignore the fact that the democratic voters (mostly) wanted Mr. Sanders to be the DNC candidate, but HRC has already stitched up a contract, which guaranteed her the nomination, at his expense, and he knew it?

That's about as far from democracy as you could go, so Bernie doesn't have a leg to stand on, when discussing the democratic process, simply because he was party to that contract.

He basically shat on his supporters, knowing full well from the beginning, that it was a done deal that HRC would be the nominee.
Lash
 
  -3  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 03:26 am
What is the difference in Trump and Hillary’s stance on immigration?

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/hillary-clinton-europe-must-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit?__twitter_impression=true

Hillary: Stop immigrants; stop xenophobia.
Builder
 
  -2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 03:42 am
@Lash,
Quote:
What is the difference in Trump and Hillary’s stance on immigration?


She wasn't so interested in immigrants, as she was in their children, and how much money they are worth on the black market.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 05:05 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Hillary: Stop immigrants; stop xenophobia.

Except that concern with the effects of uncontrolled immigration is not exclusively a reflection of racial hatred or fear. The situation in Europe is much different from the Trump-manufactured "crisis" we have on our southern border. Backlash from European voters and the non-cooperation of several European states suggests that this is a phenomenon which must be realistically discussed and a practical solution found or the entire European project could be irreparably damaged. Brexit was fueled by anti-immigration sentiment. It would be stupid to just let the European Union continue to break apart because world conditions have resulted in an unprecedented wave of refugees and migrants. And if the number of economic and war refugees is currently very high, just wait until the environmental refugees start appearing — the world needs to look at this problem soberly and solve it constructively.
hightor
 
  2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 05:14 am
@Builder,
Quote:
Are you going to completely ignore the fact that the democratic voters (mostly) wanted Mr. Sanders to be the DNC candidate...

You keep claiming that but the numbers show something different. You might want to consider the difference between open and closed primaries. If Sanders had won more primaries and gotten significantly more votes, his delegates would have been able to outvote the superdelegates and more superdelegates would have supported him. (Obama defeated Clinton in '08 by getting more votes and attracting Clinton superdelegates.) Bernie lost, fair and square.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 06:48 am
@hightor,
The Guardian's Clinton interview was part of a broader effort to examine why populism is on the rise on both sides of the Atlantic. Clinton herself says that the rise of Trump and her own defeat were linked to emigration worries. So Lash's question is fair, for once.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/clinton-blair-renzi-why-we-lost-populists-how-fight-back-rightwing-populism-centrist
hightor
 
  2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 07:01 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Clinton herself says that the rise of Trump and her own defeat were linked to emigration worries. So Lash's question is fair, for once.

Lash questioned what the difference was — one difference is that Clinton isn't trying to paint the migrants as dangerous criminals. Another is that she isn't using the migrants to fan flames of nationalism. I think the subject is important enough that it ought to be able to stand on its own and not be immediately equated to Trump's xenophobia.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 07:52 am
@Builder,
False from the start. Bernie was never the choice of most Democrats. Hillary was. Hillary also won the vote. Trump did not.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 07:58 am
Excerpt:

Europe must get a handle on immigration to combat a growing threat from rightwing populists, Hillary Clinton has said, calling on the continent’s leaders to send out a stronger signal showing they are “not going to be able to continue to provide refuge and support”.
————————————————
I don’t think refugees would have appreciated your distinction when Trump and Hillary’s actions toward them would be the same.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 08:14 am
@hightor,
These are good points. IOW, hers is not a populist stand but a realist one. Reminds me of what Rocard (a French socialist PM in the 90s, and one of the best ever) once said: "France cannot welcome all of this world's misery." It works for other countries as well. It's a matter of sheer realism to control emigration.
hightor
 
  1  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 08:26 am
@Lash,
Quote:
I don’t think refugees would have appreciated your distinction when Trump and Hillary’s actions toward them would be the same.

Maybe not. But the refugees are only one half of the problem; the other half is the conditions in the prospective host country. Trump's open hostility, racism, and insistence that the refugees are dangerous criminals poisons the atmosphere, encourages nationalist thugs to attack migrants, and makes it much harder for legal migrants and asylum seekers to find acceptance in the USA.
Quote:
...calling on the continent’s leaders to send out a stronger signal showing they are “not going to be able to continue to provide refuge and support”.

This may have already begun as the number of refugees seeking entry into the EU has been dropping. Really, if countries don't feel able to continue accepting people across their borders they should make this clear.
EDIT:
Let me add this reader's comment from the NYT's discussion of Clinton's speech:
faivel1 wrote:
I don't think any of us who is commenting on this board have any immediate solution for this global problems that was accelerated with multitude of really terrible decisions committed by politicians on both sides. But this train has long left the station. What requires now is very sober, tolerant, patient approach to very complex global dilemma, and most of all thinking and decent politicians who can legislate with compassion and tolerance, which is rarity in this day and age. The world need to come together to reach the most acceptable solutions that wouldn't undermine the countries best aspirations in resolving this grave and overwhelming conflict. So far, no one has any constructive ideas. Non-ideological global think tank should be formed to bring common sense solutions to a very complicated predicament ...no easy answers here.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 08:29 am
@Olivier5,
An opinion in The Guardian:
Hillary Clinton’s chilling pragmatism gives populism a free pass
Quote:
[...]
“I think Europe needs to get a handle on migration because that is what lit the flame,” she said. “I admire the very generous and compassionate approaches that were taken particularly by leaders like Angela Merkel, but I think it is fair to say Europe has done its part, and must send a very clear message – ‘we are not going to be able to continue provide refuge and support’ – because if we don’t deal with the migration issue it will continue to roil the body politic.”

There is a fundamental error in this thinking. It assumes the results of populist politicking are in fact its sources. Clinton believes she is on to something, but it is offering nothing new. In the past two years accepting the populist version of events and painting the left as out of touch has become a genre of its own, a strain of thought that holds that the success of the immigration rhetoric of populists is organic, inevitable and a “backlash” of some sort, rather than one of several ways that populist politicians build grievance. National populism is thus “unstoppable”, it is the revolt of the “somewheres” against the “anywheres”, “white self-interest”, a “whiteshift”. Clinton’s “beat them at their own game” strategy is the default position on the establishment centre, a capitulation of laziness, defeatism and gullibility.

It also doesn’t work. It is one of the enduring perplexities of centrist politics, one whose adherents attack the left for being unrealistic and unconcerned with electoral victory, that on immigration it has stuck to pandering to xenophobia despite the benefit of that never materialising at the ballot box. It did not work for Ed Miliband and his “Controls on immigration” mug, and it certainly has not worked for the immigration hawks in his party such as Yvette Cooper who have yet to reap the electoral spoils of propping up the hostile environment. You cannot outflank the right by adopting its promises, that way you only end up as its handmaiden.
... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Fri 23 Nov, 2018 08:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
By the way: this week the Guardian has been running a series of articles exploring the rise of populism across the globe.

In >Revealed: one in four Europeans vote populist< the Guardian has mapped the populist vote share in European national elections since 1998.

You can view the Guardian's full series on the rise of populism at >The new populism<.


 

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