@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Hey Mac, why don't you 'splain it to us? We're not sure that conspiring with a foreign dictatorship to manipulate, weaken and ridicule the US democracy and divide NATO actually counts as treason. Maybe it's all mindless fun, huh?
That's quite a mixed bag of things you're including here, isn't it?
For example, "ridiculing US democracy" -- whether in consultation with foreign enemies or not -- should be firmly part of free speech, shouldn't it? "Weakening" is pretty broad too..
It seems kind of hard to escape the echoes from the days when there were committed Communist Party activists in the US (or France, etc), who did their best to "weaken" the existing US (etc) system because they sincerely believed the Soviet Union offered a superior model for society. They certainly "conspired with a foreign dictatorship to manipulate, weaken and ridicule the US democracy", and they openly opposed NATO too.
Were they all traitors? If not, were the party leaders who personally communicated with (and received instructions from) Moscow traitors? If so, does that mean the Red Scare and McCarthyism etc were actually justified? Or did their activism still all fall under freedom of speech and assembly? Should the deciding factor be about whether this kind of thing was done openly or conspirationally? (But the communists did plenty of the consultations with Moscow secretly too.) Is the definition situational, i.e. about how close to power the people in question were? I.e. okay if it's some fringe party, but treason if they got to the presidency itself? (But how do you deploy legal definitions situationally?)
What are the implications of using words like "treason" or "act of war" -- because I've seen that one plenty too, in reference to Russia's meddling in the US election? E.g. what are the risks of declaring that Russia committed an "act of war"? What retaliatory actions does that imply/authorize?
Personally, I'm convinced the Russian government actively interfered in the US election (and not just the US one); I am not sure how much of Trump's election that explains; but I feel that, regardless, some diplomatic retaliation (eg sanctions) was always in order. But I also admit that all this talk about treason and acts of war is making me a little queasy, maybe exactly because I'm not all too sure about what responses that would all imply or authorize.