192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
layman
 
  -4  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 10:40 am
Trump got this right, and of course he didn't hesitate to stir up some **** by saying so:

Quote:
Trump says 'European Union is a foe'

President Trump ratcheted up his criticism of the European Union the day before he meets with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Finland, calling the political and economic union "a foe” of the United States.

“I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade,” Trump said on CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday. “Now you wouldn't think of the European Union but they're a foe.”

“EU is very difficult,” Trump said. “In a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills.”

Despite his comments about the EU - in which he also said that Russia is a “foe in certain respects” and “China is a foe economically” – Trump signed a communique at the NATO summit that had been agreed to by their ambassadors last weekend, five days before the summit began.


You go, Boy!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 10:42 am
@Lash,
I wouldn't favor any American president deliberately disrespecting the British monarch, but I am not in the least bothered by one who doesn't follow ridiculous protocol. She's an anachronistic figurehead entitled to no greater respect and deference than any elderly woman her age. Approx 1/4 of the people don't want the monarchy, but I have a feeling that they are the Brits who are most upset by Trump's failure to strictly follow protocol. In any case, all it will take is another run of Royal Brats creating scandals to increase their number.

I get why they enjoy the monarchy, but I don't get why they are willing to pay taxes to support it, particularly when the queen is one of the richest women in the world.

A great many people have a romantic notion of feudalism that is based on knights in shining armor and lovely princesses, but reality informs us that it is a system founded on the principle of might makes right, with monarchs and lesser nobles living high on the hog thanks to the labor of peasants who often lived in squalor.

The British aristocracy's power was diluted over time so that now it exists only in a social framework and by virtue of great wealth certain families were able to hold onto. As a result, it's easy for the people to view the monarchy as fantasy figures and/or symbols of Britain's long and rich history.

It's fine by me if they wish to preserve a ruling class in a glass bottle and live vicariously through their exalted lives, and if part of that arrangement is to buy into protocols that have them bowing to the Queen or making certain they never walk in front of her, that's also fine with me. However, I see no reason why Americans should adopt rules of behavior that are designed to elevate the status of someone based solely on a birthright and accidents of history. Again, common courtesy dictates that we shouldn't deliberately be disrespectful, but an accidental faux pas is really no big deal, even if it is due to a failure to memorize and maintain constant awareness of a ridiculous set of rules.

President Trump, like it or not, is our Head of State and if, in the UK, that position dictates the Queen should be treated with deference and respect I would expect the same to be shown to ours. Flying a huge blimp of our Head of State wearing a diaper seems to me to be a lot more disrespectful than walking ahead of a queen. I think the Mayor of London displayed his personal animus toward Trump by allowing the blimp to fly (I am quite sure he would never have permitted a similarly insulting exhibition to have attended a visit from President Obama), but it's free speech and while the Brits don't have an enshrined right to it, I'm still all for it.

coldjoint
 
  -3  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 10:44 am
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/429508786088b6b94e9b129f939ffee0b99ce19cec916982b37437d67525f1cd.jpg?w=800&h=369
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 10:46 am
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d6a34a71b98fe03dec377eeecd2ff4576b50cbf66b6315bfea8f5a3df821000f.jpg?w=800&h=594
Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 10:47 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
...making certain they never walk in front of her,

The fake news can't even get this putative "breach of protocol" right, eh, Finn? As Builda done pointed out, if you look at the tape, it's clear that's she's motioning him to go ahead of her.

https://able2know.org/topic/355218-2607#post-6678620
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 10:50 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/429508786088b6b94e9b129f939ffee0b99ce19cec916982b37437d67525f1cd.jpg?w=800&h=369


That's a good one.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 10:56 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Approx 1/4 of the people don't want the monarchy, but I have a feeling that they are the Brits who are most upset by Trump's failure to strictly follow protocol. In any case, all it will take is another run of Royal Brats creating scandals to increase their number.
The latest poll about was from 2015, so I quote the related wikipedia report:
Quote:
As of 2017 none of the three major nationwide British political parties, the Labour Party, the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrat Party, had an official policy of republicanism. However, there are a number of individual politicians who favour abolition of the monarchy (see above). Tony Benn of the Labour Party introduced a Commonwealth of Britain Bill in Parliament in 1991.[80] Jeremy Corbyn, who became leader of the Labour Party in 2015, is a republican, but has stated that he will not seek to abolish the monarchy whilst he remains leader.[81] The Green Party of England and Wales, with one MP in the 2017–2022 Parliament, has an official policy of republicanism.[82] The Irish republican party Sinn Féin has seven MPs, but they do not take their seats.[83] The Scottish Green Party, with six MSPs in the 2016-2021 Scottish Parliament, supports having an elected Head of State in an independent Scotland.[84]
wikipedia: Republicanism in the United Kingdom


I think that the Japanese, the Chinese, the Middle Eastern countries, are more concerned with protocol day-to-day. But still, there are some "regal rules", dos and don'ts for meeting the Queen.
layman
 
  -2  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

But still, there are some "regal rules", dos and don'ts for meeting the Queen.


Like they always say: "When in Rome, tell them damn Romans to kiss your black ass."
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:06 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The reasons for the German antipathy toward the US president run deeper
Quote:
The reasons for the German antipathy toward the US president run deeper than a visceral response to Trump's abrasive leadership style. Germans simply have different priorities.


Yeah right.

Quote:
In a new poll carried out by the Emnid organization for the "Bild am Sonntag" newspaper, in which respondent were asked to rank which political issues they considered most important, "increasing defense spending" - a Trump - came in dead last with only 16 percent.

According to the poll, Germans are also not particularly concerned with a rise in migrants to Europe - only 38 percent said they would prioritize "limiting immigration." What worries Germans most are becoming poor in their old age, maintaining equal educational opportunities for all and improving their health-care system.


I can't argue against their not wanting to be poor in their old age, but I suspect the concern is more about not being able to enjoy the relatively lavish retirement lifestyle they can look forward to today. That's understandable too, but their antipathy towards increased defense spending is directly related. They don't want their government to spend money on defense that could go to their retirement benefits.

I don't think there is currently much of a risk at all that Putin would invade Germany, but NATO is a big part of that reason and US membership in NATO is why. If the US were to pull out (which it won't) I don't think the threat of a Russian invasion will soar, but it might just be a little foolish of Germans to count on a) The US remaining in NATO, b) The US coming to their rescue in the event of an invasion and c) Russia never invading.

In any case, the Germans are, obviously, quite happy to have Americans be more responsible for their defense than they are, and I'm sorry, but I don't find that particularly endearing.

Their desire to maintain their generous social programs is also why they are not particularly concerned with immigration. They are smart enough to know that their birth rate is such that it cannot generate enough young Germans to pay for the retirements of old Germans so like most of Europe, they need immigration. Not to enrich their culture, but to pay for their benefits.

It's not surprising that they don't appreciate a US president calling them out for being deadbeats, and pointing out the perils of unchecked immigration. Inconvenient Truths they don't wish to hear.

Although it will never happen, I would really like to see a referendum held in each deadbeat NATO nation offering the citizenry the choice: a) Endorsing their government to take whatever steps necessary to meet the 2% commitment or b) Directing their government to pull out of NATO. However, any government forcing its people to confront their selfish hypocrisy would be dumped in the next round of elections. Right now they are eating the cake and keeping it too, and that's a happy place to be in. Now if only that incompetent, obnoxious, and dangerous Trump would shut the hell up...



ehBeth
 
  3  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:06 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
entitled to no greater respect and deference than any elderly woman her age.


that was pretty much where it started and ended for me

he didn't even show basic, common, respect

I often wonder about the people he was raised by.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:08 am
@layman,
He works for CNN; ergo he must constantly issue hyperbolic statements impugning Trump. He earns his money.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:12 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
he didn't even show basic, common, respect

How? Be specific.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:16 am
@blatham,
You mean the covert ally who shortly after taking office fired cruise missiles into the territory of a client state of the Enemy? The one who increased sanctions on the Enemy? The one who is ultimately responsible for the deaths of some 200 Enemy mercenaries in the aforementioned client state?

We'll see what happens after Trump meets Putin, but if you're expecting some sort of agreement that will reveal how deeply the president is the Russian's pocket, you are going to be disappointed.

If you expect Trump to issue all sorts of platitudes about how great a guy and leader Putin is, I'm fairly certain you will be rewarded. Trump likes to think that saying all sorts of nice things about an adversary helps him. It must have worked well for him in his business life. I suspect, as well, that he also does it just to yank the chains of folks like you.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:17 am
@blatham,
I hope it worked, and they behaved. A lot better than smacking them upside their heads.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:20 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I do think that you would get a majority here for leaving the NATO: the voters of The Left (extreme left), the AfD (extreme right) and the Greens (whatever) are particularly in favour of a withdrawal of US-troops and leaving NATO.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:24 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Trump likes to think that saying all sorts of nice things about an adversary helps him.


Yeah, I think it's a fairly common street tactic, that if you're in a bar and you have a piece of lead pipe in your left hand, then you put your right arm around the shoulders of the perv you're fixin to coldcock, tell him what a great guy you think he is, and invite him to take a little stroll outside to get some fresh air and to get to know each other better.

Of course the stroll quickly leads to a dark back alley.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:32 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In any case, the Germans are, obviously, quite happy to have Americans be more responsible for their defense than they are, and I'm sorry, but I don't find that particularly endearing.
I'd actually be happy for America to shoulder their defense burden if they didn't spit on us and call us imperialist pigs for doing so.

Protecting a friend from a bully is one thing. Protecting an ungrateful wretch who always tries to stab you in the back is quite another.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
As is often the case, I'm not sure if one of your posts is intended to amplify or refute a comment I've made and that you've quoted in that post.

The Wikipedia excerpt you've included doesn't make mention of the extent of republicanism within the general populations. I'm not surprised that the individuals cited are republicans, in the sense that they don't favor a monarchy.

The issue at hand is protocol concerning the Queen and allegations and criticism of Trump violating it. The extent to which protocol is embraced in other nations is, to me, irrelevant, but my attitude towards an American president following the protocols of another nation (and particularly in the case of protocols associated with royalty) is the same: No deliberate and obvious disrespect, but 100% adherence is neither necessary nor a good thing. For instance, an American president should never bow to any foreign sovereign unless the custom involves mutual gestures. If Trump or any other president wants to spend the time necessary to memorize all the other rules, that's fine with me, but if they don't and as a result, there is a misstep, that's fine too. Any Americans embarrassed by such missteps are more than likely opponents of the offending president, to begin with.
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 11:57 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Fine with me as well. (An acquaintance, today deputy consul general in the USA, had had a position in the Federal Foreign Office Protocol before - she told me some interesting stories from here.)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Sun 15 Jul, 2018 01:20 pm
@ehBeth,
I suspect that he was the despair of Fred Trump in his last days on Earth. Fred Trump was a ruthless business man (a real businessman, unlike President Plump), but he was also a high-profile and very generous donor to hospitals and medical research institutes. Plump thinks a charitable foundation is a means of hiding money, tax-free, and then spending it on himself.
 

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