192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
firefly
 
  3  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 02:39 pm
@layman,
Quote:
People who come here seeking asylum can are subject to "expedited removal," which does not entitle them to a court hearing, and such an order is non-appealable.

Not according to legal experts who are more familiar with the law than you apparently are. Those seeking asylum must be granted a hearing. Given the murderous environments they are fleeing, the credibility of their fears might be quite compelling, and there is an exception to expedited removal for such people with credible fears.

Trump Says Illegal Immigrants Should Be Deported With 'No Judges or Court Cases'
June 24, 2018
By Doina Chiacu and Sarah N. Lynch

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Sunday that people who enter the United States illegally should be sent back immediately to where they came from without any judicial process, likening them to invaders who are trying to "break into" the country.

His proposal drew immediate criticism from legal analysts and immigrant rights advocates who said it would violate the U.S. Constitution's due process provision, which applies to citizens and non-citizens alike.

In a series of tweets on Sunday, Trump said: "We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came."

"It was unclear if Trump was advocating an expansion of the provision that allows expedited removals of illegal immigrants at or near the U.S. border, a policy his administration has embraced since he took office. Nor did Trump differentiate between illegal immigrants and people who entered the United States to seek asylum protection.

The White House did not return a call seeking clarification.

"The president of the United States has just forcefully proposed the end of political asylum and no due process for migrants," Sherrilyn Ifill, president of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, wrote on Twitter.

Lee Gelernt, the deputy director of the ACLU's Immigrants’ Rights Project, told Reuters: "The administration cannot simply get rid of all process for immigrants. The due process clause absolutely applies. It's not a choice."

Authorities can bypass due process protections with the expedited removals policy that allows quick deportations if an immigrant is apprehended within 100 miles (160 km) of the border and has been in the country less than 14 days. Those seeking asylum must be granted a hearing...

There is an exception from expedited removal for those with a credible fear of returning home...

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2018-06-24/trump-calls-for-deporting-illegal-immigrants-with-no-judges-or-court-cases
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 03:24 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Not according to legal experts who are more familiar with the law than you apparently are. Those seeking asylum must be granted a hearing.


Wrong, yet again.

You could save yourself some embarrassment if you would actually read the quotes you post, eh?

Quote:

There is an exception from expedited removal for those with a credible fear of returning home


A person who walks up the the border and says "I'm seeking asylum" is an "asylum-seeker." That person may be granted a hearing, but he is NOT entitled to one.

If he is to get a hearing, he must first show a credible fear, that's true, but it is NOT merely a credible fear of "returning home" like your article says. It must be a credible fear of persecution or torture or persecution."

A judge does NOT decide whether he gets a hearing. An officer of the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services does that. About 90% of the claims are summarily rejected, because they are not credible, or because they are for irrelevant "fear of gangs," my husband beats me, or some **** like that. Those are then booted out on an "expedited" basis (no court hearing).

Even 80% of those granted a hearing are then found to be presenting a frivolous claim.


Nice try, cheese-eater. Keep trying, eh?
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 03:26 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
BTW, El Salvador and Honduras have some of the highest violence rates in the world-

BTW, that is their problem.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 03:47 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:
You could save yourself some embarrassment if you would actually read the quotes you post, eh?


In full context, the article you quote to "prove" your false claim says:

Quote:
Under expedited removal proceedings, which are used most commonly at ports of entry, an immigration official can evaluate an immigrant's claim and reject it with no involvement by an immigration judge or review board....There is an exception from expedited removal for those with a credible fear of returning home.


The "exception" is clearly conditional, and not absolute, according to the very article you cite. It does not say "for those who seek asylum." It says "for those with a credible fear......"
Builder
 
  -2  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 03:52 pm
@layman,
Quote:
I'm sure Mexico would have kept them, because every cheese-eater and his brother tells me that every country in the world (except us) would grant them asylum.


Actually the current criminal Australian govt. (much to (most) Australian's horror) sends suspect arrivals to remote desert islands to live, despite the UN saying the process is illegal under the charter "we" signed.

Those "suspect" arrivals amount to a small percentage of total arrivals, with most arriving by jet plane, with an actual visa, before disappearing into the woodwork.

Such are the joys of multicultural societies.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 03:56 pm
@layman,
Quote:
The "exception" is clearly conditional, and not absolute, according to the very article you cite. It does not say "for those who seek asylum." It says "for those with a credible fear......"

Oh, snap. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  0  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 03:58 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Do we really want a world where we have a few economically successful, cosmopolitan, crowded countries on one end of the scale and a huge number of economically-challenged, environmentally-exploited "poverty prisons" on the other end where people live under chronic oppression and endemic corruption?


Ironically, our current form of capitalism relies upon exploiting poor(er) nations where products can be made cheaply, increasing the profit margins for globalist corporations.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 04:11 pm
@layman,
That said, I should add that the entire article REEKS of inaccurate information, coupled with an extremely selective and misleading presentation, to the extent it is accurate.

For example (just one of many) it says:

Quote:
Lee Gelernt, the deputy director of the ACLU's Immigrants’ Rights Project, told Reuters: "The administration cannot simply get rid of all process for immigrants. The due process clause absolutely applies. It's not a choice."


That's completely true, but it says nothing about the substance of Trump's tweets. (i.e., it does not even address such questions as "what process is due?," for example). They sure try to make it SOUND like it does, though.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 04:15 pm
@layman,
Quote:
If he is to get a hearing, he must first show a credible fear, that's true, but it is NOT merely a credible fear of "returning home" like your article says. It must be a credible fear of persecution or torture or persecution."

Like Trump, you seem to be suggesting that asylum seekers are gaming the system, or trying to. Where is your legal support for that view? In fact, why don't you post the source material, or link, for your statements regarding law?
Quote:
Even 80% of those granted a hearing are then found to be presenting a frivolous claim.

No, because asylum wasn't granted does not mean the claim was "frivolous".

Quote:
that doesn’t mean asylum seekers are gaming the system. The majority have valid claims of fear in their home countries, experts told us.

Louis Desipio, a University of California Irvine political science professor who specializes in immigration, told us that while more people are affirmatively expressing their right to apply for asylum, their claims are not necessarily without merit.

"Initially, a lot of migration was single males from Mexico coming for work, and now you’re seeing a shift to Central American families fleeing record levels of violence in the northern triangle" of El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras, said Joshua Breisblatt, a senior policy analyst at the American Immigration Council. "There is no indication that that’s an increase in fraud, that’s just something that is happening in the United States’ backyard."

Asylum requests by citizens of El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras made up 72.9 percent of total claims in fiscal year 2016.

"Our laws are clear," said Kate Voigt, associate director of government relations at the American Immigration Lawyers Association. "If you express a fear of returning to your home country, you have a right to a credible fear screening. If the asylum officer finds you have a credible fear of persecution in your home country, then you have a right to have an immigration judge hear your case."

Under the last several administrations, Customs and Border Protection increased its use of expedited removal, according to Lenni B. Benson, a law professor at New York Law School. Given the only way to stop an expedited removal order is to seek a credible fear review, Benson said this might explain the hike in numbers.

As we noted, the overall grant rate for all asylum applications nationwide was 20 percent in fiscal year 2017, a percentage hasn’t changed much since 2012.

But Guadalupe Correa-Cabrera, a professor at George Mason University’s Schar School of Policy and Government who has interviewed hundreds of migrants for immigration research, said the variation in numbers between case approvals and asylum application approvals does not prove fraud, either.

In order to get their cases of asylum initially approved, immigrants arriving illegally must fill out a survey to show whether their conditions qualify under the definition of persecution. In order to prove they merit asylum, they must show evidence they often lack before a court.

The United States has also narrowed its standards for asylum under Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Desipio said, precluding victims of domestic abuse and gang violence from qualifying for asylum.

"It’s very complicated for these people," Correa said. "How, if they are in the United States after that very difficult journey, are they going to prove they have been extorted, show that their kids have been recruited by gangs?"

Correa said there are definitely cases of fraud by smugglers who attempt to reunite children with their parents. But there are also families fleeing situations of extreme insecurity...
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/jun/21/donald-trump/1700-percent-increase-asylum-claims/
firefly
 
  4  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 04:35 pm
Quote:
EXPEDITED REMOVAL

DHS Deporting Women Without Asking If They’re Afraid to Go Home, Advocate Says

Fast-track proceedings are required by law to consider a person’s fear, but the feds are allegedly moving ahead without asking.
Betsy Woodruff
06.20.18

The Department of Homeland Security is breaking the law to rush separated immigrant mothers out of the U.S., according to an advocate working with detained women.

Laura Lunn, managing attorney for the detention program of the Rocky Mountain Immigrant Advocacy Network, told The Daily Beast that numerous detained women she’s spoken to say they were placed in expedited removal proceedings without being asked by Customs and Border Patrol officials if they were afraid of returning to their home countries.

Lunn said she represents women detained in Colorado, including many who have been separated from their children under Attorney General Jeff Sessions’ new “zero tolerance” policy.

“It’s been a significant number of people we’ve met with who say they were never asked if they had a fear,” Lunn said.

That’s important because before DHS can put an immigrant into expedited removal proceedings, the law requires that officials determine if the immigrant is seeking asylum, according to immigration attorneys.

“That’s a violation of the law,” Lunn said. “When somebody is put into expedited removal, the government has to ask them if they have a fear of return because that’s what puts the brakes on just deporting them, and that is their right under the asylum statute. And that’s not happening.”

“That’s not a new phenomenon,” she added, “but we’re seeing it in mass scale right now.”

Lunn did not share the names of immigrants who have been put in expedited removal without being asked about fear of returning home, and said the women are very fearful and worry about their children. Advocates fear that immigrants who speak on the record about alleged DHS lawbreaking could face retaliation in their immigration court proceedings.

Katie Shepherd of the American Immigration Council said CPB violates the law if its officers don’t give immigrants a chance to express their fear before putting them into speedy removal proceedings.

“Individuals placed in expedited removal proceedings must be referred to an asylum officer for an interview to determine if they have a ‘credible fear’ of persecution,” she told The Daily Beast. “Failure to do so is a violation of law and could result in a legitimate asylum seeker being deported to imminent harm or even death.”

David Leopold, an immigration attorney who formerly headed the American Immigration Lawyers Association, said he found Lunn’s allegations to be chilling.

“Customs and Border Protection officers have a duty to understand and figure out whether or not a person is in fear for their life, fear of persecution before they subject them to the harshness of expedited removal and immediate return to their country,” he said. “They have to ask that question.”

He added that allegations of a pattern of officers neglecting to ask immigrants about potential fear of return would be a significant change.

“This allegation is very serious and it must be investigated,” he said.

A DHS official told The Daily Beast that the lack of detail with the allegations made it hard for the agency to respond.

“DHS complies with federal law with regard to processing individuals claiming asylum,” the official said. “It is hard for us to respond to claims without the specificity needed to look into it further.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/dhs-deporting-women-without-asking-if-theyre-afraid-to-go-home-advocate-says?ref=scroll

coldjoint
 
  -4  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 04:40 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
but the feds are allegedly moving ahead without asking.

Maybe we should have an investigation, nah, those take too long and never find anything.

The constant repetition of this crap is the medias way of shaming people into saying they care. What they say and how they vote are different.

0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 05:06 pm
Quote:
State of Resistance: San Francisco Is a Toilet

This is the model for major heavily populated cities especially in warmer climates if Democrats assume any power. Oh wait, they already run those cities.



https://amgreatness.com/2018/06/24/state-of-resistance-san-francisco-is-a-toilet/
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 05:30 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
If he is to get a hearing, he must first show a credible fear, that's true, but it is NOT merely a credible fear of "returning home" like your article says. It must be a credible fear of persecution or torture or persecution."

Where is your legal support for that view? In fact, why don't you post the source material, or link, for your statements regarding law?


Heh, again, why don't you read your own damn article, which clearly says:

Quote:
"If you express a fear of returning to your home country, you have a right to a credible fear screening. If the asylum officer finds you have a credible fear of persecution in your home country, then you have a right to have an immigration judge hear your case."

Under the last several administrations, Customs and Border Protection increased its use of expedited removal, according to Lenni B. Benson, a law professor at New York Law School...the only way to stop an expedited removal order is to seek a credible fear review...

The United States has also narrowed its standards for asylum under Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Desipio said, precluding victims of domestic abuse and gang violence from qualifying for asylum.


Looks like you have finally stumbled across some real experts, and are no longer trying to make false claims after reading fake news articles, at least. Now if you could only read and understand what you post....

"Persecution" does not mean, and never has, meant "I'm afraid to to back." It's not for individual circumstances like "my husband beats me." It is for members of a large GROUP who are being systematically killed, tortured, etc., because they are a member of an ethnic or religious minority in their home country.
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
firefly
 
  0  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 05:32 pm
@coldjoint,
The article refers to one block in San Francisco, with problems created by the homeless--and that problem was already cleared up by the city when that article was published.

San Francisco is a lovely and quite desirable city.

You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for faux news you can blame on the Democrats.

But, since you're into toilets or toilet related things...

Let's look at another heavily populated city, NYC, which happens to be Trump's home town, to see how his local paper viewed him quite recently.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/951669415426306048/Caa9mjOK_400x400.jpg
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 05:44 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The article refers to one block in San Francisco

https://amgreatness.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/SFexcrementmap.jpeg
Quote:
the bottom of the barrel

Pretty big block. And if got to the bottom of the barrel who would I find besides progressive race baiting, family insulting and threatening, violent, and supposedly educated, which he payed for with his balls, but he has stopped learning now he just listens. Anything else?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 05:59 pm
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgDvekHW0AAQpPE.jpg:large
layman
 
  -1  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 06:08 pm
@firefly,
Once again, your fake news source provides zero support for the "alarm" it is trying to generate, eh?

firefly wrote:

Quote:
EXPEDITED REMOVAL

DHS Deporting Women Without Asking If They’re Afraid to Go Home, Advocate Says

“It’s been a significant number of people we’ve met with who say they were never asked if they had a fear,” Lunn said...

“That’s not a new phenomenon,” she added, “but we’re seeing it in mass scale right now.”

Lunn did not share the names of immigrants who have been put in expedited removal without being asked about fear of returning home,

“DHS complies with federal law with regard to processing individuals claiming asylum,” the official said. “It is hard for us to respond to claims without the specificity needed to look into it further.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/dhs-deporting-women-without-asking-if-theyre-afraid-to-go-home-advocate-says?ref=scroll



All this article really contains, is the claim of ONE fervent activist who refuses to provide details. All the rest is just long-winded crap about others saying this would be bad IF IT WERE TRUE.

Ya done been played, yet again, eh?
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 06:26 pm
@firefly,
It is missing the word " illegal." It goes between "your" and "immigrant".
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  4  
Sun 24 Jun, 2018 06:28 pm
@layman,
You haven't shown, let alone proven, that the assertions made by Lunn were untrue. Nor did she refuse to provide details about anything.

It's a very serious claim that should be further investigated. And DHS did not dismiss the claim, they indicated that it is difficult for them to pursue without more information. They don't want things like that going on either.

So, nothing about the article qualifies as "fake news".

What's your definition of fake news--anything that doesn't come out of Sean Hannity's mouth? http://www.carlswebgraphics.com/mice-images/laughing-mouse.gif

 

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