192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 01:40 pm
@layman,
And so does "conservative."
I know, because I used to be a registered republiican. Now the line between liberal and conservative is lost.
I'm still a fiscal conservative; the republicans are not.

Republicans are addicted to increasing federal spending.
http://dailysignal.com/2016/03/15/republicans-are-addicted-to-increasing-federal-spending/

http://www.businessinsider.com/government-spending-2011-7


nimh
 
  4  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 01:52 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

blatham wrote:

All we can do is try to keep things running without the vituperation and malice. And, of course, resist the temptations ourselves.

Or let your links do it, as a cheese-eaters would, eh?


There's a pretty big distinction between directing one's vituperation at politicians or at fellow users of the site you're on. Politicians are always fair game, left or right.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 01:56 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
To be as clear as possible, it is true that facts are theories,

Not with you on that one, babe. The earth revolves around the sun.

She was paraphrasing Richard Feynman a celebrated, but now deceased physicist who pioneered many elements of modern quantum dynamics and in doing so lived and worked in a world in which the theoretical models of particles, and their elusive energy equivalents was the rule - there at the frontier of physics. There's truth in what she wrote.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 01:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
I'm still a fiscal conservative; the republicans are not.

Republicans are addicted to increasing federal spending.


I read where the total value of everything in this country--all dow jones/nasdaq stock, all bonds, all bank accounts, all real estate, EVERYTHING, is estimated to be about 50 trillion dollars. Our national debt is 20 trillion.

At "foreclosure sale" prices, our creditors could buy out the whole country, lock, stock, and barrel. Good luck, millenials.

Of course the millenials demand that we import thousands of penniless refugees who will require, and receive, complete financial assistance at public expense so that they can "feel good about themselves."

When viewed in that light their future really is hopeless.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 02:05 pm
@nimh,
nimh wrote:

There's a pretty big distinction between directing one's vituperation at politicians or at fellow users of the site you're on.


If you say so, nimh. I'm not that "sophisticated" my own damn self. To my minute mind, a piece of **** is a piece of ****, wherever it happens to lie.

And I have this terrible tendency to describe things as I see them. The PC cops have about a million warrants out on my sorry ass, ya know?
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 02:55 pm
@Lola,
Isent a fact some time a proven theory?
RABEL222
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 02:59 pm
@blatham,
After reading 5 posters in a row telling the same lie its damn hard for me not to comment on the veracity of said posters.
layman
 
  -1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 04:06 pm
Posted elsewhere, but perhaps of interest here, too, eh?

Well, maybe there's some hope for the future generation after all, eh? Turns out that not every single one of those OSU students is a cheese-eater.

Quote:
Following the attack earlier this week, Stephanie Clemons Thompson, OSU's assistant director of resident life, posted a message on Facebook, critical of those who had been sharing pictures of the attacker's dead body on campus.

"I pray you find compassion for his life, as troubled as it clearly was. Think of the pain he must have been in to feel that his actions were the only solution."

Soon after, a local paramedic-in-training named Brock Jenkins started a Change.org petition, calling for Thompson to "be removed from her leadership position...effective immediately."

"We cannot allow someone in her influential position to be an apologist to these acts of violent terror," the message read in part.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3994656/Hundreds-sign-petition-calling-OSU-administrator-fired-Facebook-post-calling-compassion-terrorist-Abdul-Artan.html

As of the time this article was written, over 1400 people had already signed the petition.

She probably wants us to "feel the pain" of the damn head-choppin terrorist he called a "hero," too, eh?

Well, things have changed a little, now, eh? Instead of country-wide calls for some white baseball player to be fired for saying "insensitive things" off the field, now we have demands that a black woman be fired just for crying her poor eyes out for a cute little muslim boy, eh?
layman
 
  -1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 04:11 pm
@layman,
For context, that last post was originally a follow-up to this one:
=========

Ya know, after reading this muslim's facebook posts, made 3 minutes before he plowed his car into a crowd, praising muslim terrorists, promising "no sleep" to Americans, etc., I kinda thought he was a terrorist.

I guess I was wrong, according to some, at least. Turns out this emphatically was NOT terrorism. It was merely a "misunderstanding." Not like Bundy. What he did was deliberate terror, of course.

0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 04:12 pm
Quote:
Garrison Keillor: Could President Trump Be Part Of God's Plan?



By GARRISON KEILLOR
December 1, 2016, 6:42 AM

So many Trumpists have written in since the election, and I am grateful for their interest and also impressed by the sheer variety of their profanity. I never learned to swear that well because by the time my mother died, at 97, it was too late for me to learn. I gather from the letters that their lives were devastated by the advent of gay marriage, political correctness, the threat of gun control, the arrogance of liberals, and now a champion rises from Fifth Avenue & 56th Street and God forbid that any dog should bark when he speaks or any pigeon drop white matter on his limousine.

What the letter-writers don't grasp is that cursing is highly effective in person — someone kicks his car in rage, forgetting he's wearing flip-flops, and flames pour from his mouth, it's impressive. But you see it in print and it's just ugly. It makes you pity the writer's wife.

It's not good form to curse at someone you've just defeated. That is why the president-elect made it clear he would not be waterboarding Hillary or sending her back to Mexico. He was gracious in victory and said the Clintons are "good people." Several of his biggest applause lines seem to have been put back in the box. And his base is faced with the possibility that they may have elected a Manchurian. They know that he was a Democrat for most of his life and that the sight of Adam and Steve holding hands does not fill him with loathing.

He is, after all, a New Yorker; he's not from Tulsa. He likes drama. Maybe he'll appoint his sister to the Supreme Court. Maybe he would rather row than wade. Maybe the Republicans will privatize the Pentagon and maybe the Chinese will be the low bidder. Why not run the Marines like a business? Put the "deal" back into "idealism."

Meanwhile, Mr. Christie waits for the prosecutor to call and summon him to a low-ceilinged room with fluorescent lights and ask him pointed questions for the good man to answer under oath and say the same things he's said in public, that he had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with those orange highway cones. Meanwhile, Mr. Giuliani waits for his phone to ring, the mayor who put his Emergency Command Center on the 23rd floor of the World Trade Center, over the objections of the police department, and later started his own security consulting company. This is a new level of chutzpah. This is like the captain of the Titanic, had he survived, writing a book about the art of navigation.

My first election was 1948, when we stayed up late listening to returns on a Zenith radio in our basement home in the cornfields north of Minneapolis. Mother was content with Truman's victory, believing that he cared about the poor, and Dad was dubious of politicians in general and Democrats in particular. It was interesting for a child to sense this division, though they were gentle people and evangelical Christians who refrained from voting on the assumption that the Lord was in charge and would put into power whomever He wished. If you voted, you might vote against the Lord's Will.

Their reasoning seemed shaky to me — it seemed to argue that one should not get out of bed in the morning lest you eat the wrong cereal for breakfast — but I've inherited some of their fatalism. Maybe God did choose this bloated narcissist and compulsive liar and con man to be president, and maybe He will send a couple of Corinthians to light his pathway.

I have my doubts. You grow up to be skeptical of the hormone treatment that eliminates wrinkles, the metal detector that will locate buried treasure, the school that will teach you the secrets of getting rich, the great leader who will make the country great again.

But it does seem like the very thing God might do. Put an idiot in charge and cluster his clueless children around him and a coterie of old hacks and opportunists and thereby teach us haughty journalists a lesson. God made Balaam's donkey open its mouth and say, "Quit hitting me, stupid." And if He could do that, He could make this moose a halfway decent president.

Meanwhile, blessings on all who cursed me. May you thrive and prosper. I hope you have not cursed your children.

Garrison Keillor is an author and radio personality. He wrote this for The Washington Post, where it first appeared.
layman
 
  3  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 04:21 pm
@wmwcjr,
Heh, some of that was pretty funny, such as

wmwcjr wrote:
It's not good form to curse at someone you've just defeated. That is why the president-elect made it clear he would not be waterboarding Hillary or sending her back to Mexico....

He is, after all, a New Yorker; he's not from Tulsa. He likes drama. Maybe he'll appoint his sister to the Supreme Court. Maybe he would rather row than wade. Maybe the Republicans will privatize the Pentagon and maybe the Chinese will be the low bidder. Why not run the Marines like a business? Put the "deal" back into "idealism."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 04:46 pm
@RABEL222,
Keep on questioning.
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  4  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 05:11 pm
@nimh,
Thank you for posting.

I remember the original description on a2k re how to debate, whatever the wording. Yes, I think that written by Blatham. Not sure, no link looking.
I listen.

Layman blasts folks who don't respond to him as being all listening to themselves and ignoring others.
News: no, it is because I work to ignore you. You insult often.
I also avoid the elegant George O'b, who has spent a long time debating with Blatham while insulting him often in a snide fashion.

I have argued on a2k often enough but I leave the room with all the one-snide-per-post mode. Past snide, layman's cheese taunts are personally offensive.
giujohn
 
  -1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 05:19 pm
@wmwcjr,
Keillor should go jump in a lake woebegone and stop trying to be relevant by making political statements. Hell I thought he was dead already.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 05:47 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

As Politico’s Susan Glasser wrote in a sobering assessment of election coverage for the Brookings Institution
Quote:
Indeed, Hannah Arendt, writing in 1967, presciently explained the basis for this phenomenon: “Since the liar is free to fashion his ‘facts’ to fit the profit and pleasure, or even the mere expectations, of his audience, the chances are that he will be more persuasive than the truth teller.”
That's one hell of a bright insight.


It is indeed. However there are many ways to deceive ( and not all deceptions are lies: that depends, in part, on intent). Very often deception from one who's views are opposed by the commentator are termed as "lies" while those coming from supporters are often termed as mere "errors". A lot here is determined by one's point of view.

There's another factor involved here as well, and that is the knowledge and sophistication of the audience and its preferences relative to those of the speaker. Lies and deceptions that are consistent with the audience's preferences are rarely called out, and often applauded, while truthful, but unwelcome statements are often termed as lies or, as in this case, efforts to gain undeserved advantage. Lastly, the speaker risks a lot if he asserts something false that is detected as such by the audience.

Finally there is the art of avoiding facts entirely and merely larding one's arguments up with the quoted opinions of others and presenting them as some kind of proof . That itself is often deceptive, particularly if the speaker is consistently selective in his sources of them.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 06:00 pm
@georgeob1,
Here are "mostly true" statements from Trump.
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/mostly-true/

And there's also this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2016/11/28/trump-just-proved-hes-a-pathological-liar-which-part-is-worse-the-lying-or-the-pathology/?utm_term=.5f2196add8da
layman
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 06:01 pm
@ossobucotemp,
ossobucotemp wrote:

. You insult often....layman's cheese taunts are personally offensive.


A brief response, Jo. First of all, congratulations on frankly speaking your mind. I would urge you to continue this course of action, because it seems to me that you are often inclined to just "bite your tongue" when something "bothers" you. In my opinion that is a practice that is detrimental to anyone who habitually employs it.

Secondly, I am completely unaware of any occasion when I have "blasted" you for anything--least of all for "ignoring" me. I'm sorry if you feel you have somehow been "blasted" by me. That said, I can't "apologize" for something that I'm not even aware of, so don't take the lack of a forthcoming apology as a personal slight, please.

What constitutes an "insult" is often in the eye of the beholder. I have no idea, for example, why you would feel "personally" offended by the term cheese-eater (which I take you to be referring to). I will say that I saw your interpretation of it, and you're wrong about that. I didn't even try to correct you on that before, partially because I had no idea that you felt "personally" offended by it.

It was also partially because you have declared your dislike for me. I won't try to interact with you if that's the way you feel. I know you are sensitive and wouldn't want to impose upon, or "crowd," you by initiating any interaction between us.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 06:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You will get no argument from me about the (lack of) forethought and care that attends Trumps many pronouncements. He is a hip shooter and often speaks loosely and on impulse. That said, I think people are growing to understand his communications, and oddly, I think many more people believe he means what he (very loosely) says than did the ever cautious Hillary in her often carefully crafted and evasive statementsd.
layman
 
  1  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 06:20 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

That said, I think people are growing to understand his communications, and oddly, I think many more people believe he means what he (very loosely) says than did the ever cautious Hillary in her often carefully crafted and evasive statements.


I would go a step further, George. Beyond merely "understanding" Trump, and not questioning his sincerity, I believe many people actually like Trump's approach, even when they completely disagree with, or condemn, the content of his statements.

Despite the hyper-sensitivity that the cheese-eaters adopt, and wish to impose on everybody, I think the average person would much rather hear a person's true thoughts and beliefs than hear bullshit that is calculated to be inoffensive and/or pleasing. I may be in the minority here, but I know I'm not alone. Other have told me they like the fact that Trump says what he means, and presumably means what he says. This is probably especially true of black people. Some (black) public people have declared that, although they think he's largely full of ****, they find Trump much more acceptable than Clinton, for the very reason that he's not trying to blow smoke up their ass.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 3 Dec, 2016 06:29 pm
@georgeob1,
We know that most people don't trust Hillary, and she can blame herself for that.
As for Trump, I'm gonna wait a year or two to see how he communicates and acts. I'm sure the professional presidential historians will have a lot to say about Trump after his first term.
As I've said before, all I care about is our economy. I've been retired since 1998, and I depend a lot on my investments to live a comfortable life.
 

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