192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 03:32 pm
@glitterbag,
Indeed. Trump could even be the Christ re-risen. Who's to say our partisan preferences aren't blinding us to his majesty.
blatham
 
  2  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 03:36 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Could we all avoid feeding the idiotic September 11th conspiracy obsession? There are plenty of other places for that, and we don't need to encourage the trashing of this thread. Thank you.
Good grief. Is that still floating about? That's depressing.

But it does underline how right wing notions about the poor quality of public education are realized in themselves. I suppose that could be compelling.
BillW
 
  2  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 03:40 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Indeed. Trump could even be the Christ re-risen. Who's to say our partisan preferences aren't blinding us to his majesty.

Minimum, that would be "anti-christ"! Then again, I'm just a realist......
hightor
 
  5  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 03:55 pm
@Glennn,
Running this pointless discussion to death is a disservice to the A2K political community. I've addressed your concerns in multiple posts. The reason that assault-styled weapons are in the limelight is because of their lethality, which in itself is a combination of several factors including the velocity of the rounds, the range of the weapons, availability of high capacity clips, and the high regard in which they are held among firearms aficionados and their resultant visibility.

Quote:
Culturally, the ban did what marketers could not: In outlawing it, the government made the AR-15 tantalizing.

“If you want to sell something to an American, just tell him that he can’t have it,” said Mark Westrom, who owned Armalite, the gun’s original manufacturer.

When the ban ended, enthusiasts could finally buy what for a decade had been forbidden.

And when the AR-15 reappeared in gun stores that fall, American culture had changed. Now, this civilian-model military rifle was being sold amid not only a swell of anticipation but also post-9/11 patriotism and at the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Special Operations forces were being mythologized in news segments, shown carrying their rifles through the desert in imposing tactical gear. Children were shooting the AR-15’s military equivalent in wartime video games. Manufacturers designed rival versions, creating a competitive market that made the AR-15 more affordable.

So you want to buy a rifle like our troops are using in Iraq?” National Public Radio asked in November 2004. “Well, step up to the counter and tell the man what you want.”

Gun store owners scrambled to meet demand, contemporaneous news accounts show. Shops that historically sold traditional bolt-action guns and older firearms started stocking AR-15s.

Steve Clark, whose family has owned Clark Brothers Gun Shop in Warrenton, Va., since 1956, said his customers are drawn to newer and more modern rifles.

“If the whole world went to ARs, that’s what I’d be selling,” said Mr. Clark, who prefers older firearms for what he views as superior craftsmanship. “It would make me sad, but I’m going to sell them what they want.”

AR-15 owners, asked why they bought the firearms, cited recreation as well as the larger mythology that has enveloped the rifle of embodying freedom and the Second Amendment.

Joshua Boston, a Marine who spent two deployments in Iraq and two in Afghanistan and owns several AR-15s, said he keeps them for personal defense. He is looking for the serial number of his old military rifle so he can engrave both it and the Colt logo onto the AR-15 he plans to give years from now to his son, now 11 months old.

Chris Cerino, a former federal law enforcement officer and firearms instructor in Ohio, said he hated the AR-15, until he used one. “It was so fun to shoot,” said Mr. Cerino, 48. Now, he and his wife, who has a purple AR-15, love them.

“It’s an icon,” he said. “It’s a symbol of freedom. To me, it is America’s rifle.”

Critics say the firearm’s branding positioned it for notoriety. Josh Koskoff — a lawyer who represents parents of victims of the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., in a lawsuit against the gun manufacturer Remington — cited a concerted effort by the gun industry after the assault weapons ban to use the AR-15 to shape popular opinion around semiautomatic weapons — rebranding them as “modern sporting rifles.”

“When they market it to young men, there’s no ‘sporting rifle’ angle to it,” Mr. Koskoff said. “It’s all military. It’s all violent. And it’s all incendiary marketing.”

Indeed, the AR-15 is also inextricably linked to tragedy. Mass shootings are central to the gun’s narrative, and its popularity. Police departments stocked up on them after a string of massacres in the 1990s. Some supporters attribute their fondness to fear of being outgunned should they encounter an aggressor. Hobbyists, like Mr. Swarey, 23, have swarmed to gun shops after mass shootings, fearful that they could be a catalyst for the government to outlaw them again.

“It was right around the time of the first school shooting that made the news and scared everybody,” Mr. Swarey said of buying his first AR-15 about five years ago, when, he said, the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting was fueling talk of another assault weapons ban. “It was one of those things, that I wanted to get one before they were impossible to get."

Compared with pistols, assault rifles are used rarely in shootings. According to F.B.I. statistics, 374 people were murdered with any kind of rifle in 2016; 7,105 were killed by a handgun.

But the AR-15 has been a recurring character in some of America’s most infamous violent crimes. Adam Lanza used his to kill 20 children and six educators at Sandy Hook. Stephen Paddock used an enhanced AR-style gun to kill 58 concertgoers and wound hundreds on the Las Vegas Strip in October. A month later, Devin Kelley murdered 26 congregants with a Ruger AR-15 variant at a church in Sutherland Springs, Tex. And the rampage last month at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., renewed calls for assault-style rifles to be banned — a common refrain after mass shootings.

It is unclear when and how the rifle worked its way into the United States’ lexicon of violent crimes. In 1982, George E. Banks shot to death 13 people with the weapon, and in 1997, an AR-15, among other semiautomatic military-style rifles, was used in the North Hollywood shootout, a daytime robbery in California that devolved into a nearly hourlong firefight and was televised live across the country. During the gun battle, police officers were forced to run to a local gun store and take rifles to try to contend with the robbers’ firepower and body armor. Afterward, police departments around the country started making AR-15s standard issue for officers.

Mr. Koskoff, the lawyer for Sandy Hook victims, criticized the marketing of the AR-15 as hypermasculine and inflammatory, aimed at attracting young men, “ringing the bell of the lone gunman.”

“What we’re seeing right now with the increasing velocity of shootings with AR-15s is a little bit of a ‘chickens coming home to roost’ scenario,” he said. “They sold so many to so many, and so indiscriminately to this younger demographic, that it’s just become a risk that increases with each sale.”


NYT

Note that the article agrees with your point, "According to F.B.I. statistics, 374 people were murdered with any kind of rifle in 2016; 7,105 were killed by a handgun." But apparently that's irrelevant because we can see that the reporter turned the story in and the editor published it. Rightly or wrongly, it's the assault-style weapons that are in the public eye at the moment.
camlok
 
  -1  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 03:57 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
Good grief. Is that still floating about? That's depressing.


Good grief! blatham hides from reality. That is telling. You have to be lying about not knowing these discussion just happened, Bernie, because you would have seen hightor's brief discussion with me. And rev's.

Quote:
But it does underline how right wing notions about the poor quality of public education are realized in themselves. I suppose that could be compelling.


That is just total crazy talk, Bernie. It isn't just conservatives who believe/pretend to believe the USGOCT, it is "liberals" like yourself.

All the brave liberals who talk on and on and on and on about guns, NRA, ... but are too frightened to address the impossibilities of the USGOCT.
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
Glennn
 
  -4  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 04:24 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Running this pointless discussion to death is a disservice to the A2K political community.

Really? What ever possessed you?
Quote:
. . . the velocity of the rounds, the range of the weapons

And yet handguns are used in mass shootings much more than rifles.
Quote:
Note that the article agrees with your point

I'm not surprised.
Quote:
But apparently that's irrelevant

I see . . .
Quote:
Rightly or wrongly, it's the assault-style weapons that are in the public eye at the moment.

I'd say wrongly, since handguns are used way more often in mass shootings.
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 07:19 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
And yet handguns are used in mass shootings much more than rifles.

Yes, we know that. It just happens to be irrelevant.
Quote:
I'd say wrongly, since handguns are used way more often in mass shootings.

That's irrelevant and superficial. The article is about the AR15. For reasons which are obvious. Those are the guns which are currently of interest.
camlok
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 07:24 pm
@hightor,
How come you have fled yet again, hightor?
glitterbag
 
  4  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 07:34 pm
@camlok,
Maybe you didn't notice, but he posted 5 minutes before your post. I hear there is a fantastic debate going on about Area 51 over on FavoriteConspirisy.com, you should check it out before all the points (pro or con) are talked to death.
BillW
 
  3  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 07:39 pm
@glitterbag,
Can you remember where that "Earth is Flat" thread is? That would be better for him. Even better is that one on "The Internet is a Hoax"......
glitterbag
 
  2  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 07:43 pm
@BillW,
Well everybody knows that, except the conservative liberals.....those dopes are so confused.
BillW
 
  2  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 07:45 pm
@glitterbag,
Smile Razz Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  3  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 08:29 pm
Quote:
In the closed-door remarks, a recording of which was obtained by CNN, Trump also praised China's President Xi Jinping for recently consolidating power and extending his potential tenure, musing he wouldn't mind making such a maneuver himself.

"He's now president for life. President for life. No, he's great," Trump said. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot some day."

...

But Trump's words reflected his deeply felt resentment that his actions during the 2016 campaign remain under scrutiny while those of his former rival, Hillary Clinton, do not.

"I'm telling you, it's a rigged system folks," Trump said. "I've been saying that for a long time. It's a rigged system. And we don't have the right people in there yet. We have a lot of great people, but certain things, we don't have the right people."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/03/politics/trump-maralago-remarks/






https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSoc0igMHL-5fcmLIochb8rU1PMZb8dWAZDFdeB2P5nDtXpQTBi
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 09:01 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
Maybe you didn't notice, but he posted 5 minutes before your post.


You don't know what I was talking about so obviously you don't know what you are talking about.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  -3  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 09:03 pm
@BillW,
Bill Bill Bill. You folks are the conspiracy theorists, pejorative meaning, because you pretend to believe in the USGOCT. Yet not a one of you can provide any evidence for it.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  -2  
Sat 3 Mar, 2018 09:35 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Yes, we know that. It just happens to be irrelevant.

Sure. In a discussion concerning which guns should be banned, the type used most often in mass shootings is irrelevant. Riiiight.
Quote:
Those are the guns which are currently of interest.

The guns that are currently of interest has no bearing on the issue of which guns are used most in mass shootings.
hightor
 
  4  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 04:51 am
@Glennn,
Quote:
In a discussion concerning which guns should be banned, the type used most often in mass shootings is irrelevant.

Maybe, but I haven't read anyone demanding that any guns should be "banned" in the USA other than ones currently restricted. And in a discussion concerning the deadliest mass shootings it would be remiss of us not to be discussing assault-style weapons.
Quote:
The guns that are currently of interest has no bearing on the issue of which guns are used most in mass shootings.

You don't get to determine the subject under discussion, though. If people want to address the use of assault-styled weapons in mass shootings they will. And articles such as the one I quoted are evidence that, currently, that type of firearm is very much of interest.
Setanta
 
  4  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 05:10 am
One of the issues that the gun lobby doesn't want addressed is how deadly the high-velocity, metal jacketed ammo used by the AR15 is. Handguns don't do nearly the damage that assault rifles do.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sun 4 Mar, 2018 06:49 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Maybe, but I haven't read anyone demanding that any guns should be "banned" in the USA other than ones currently restricted.

Nonsense. The gun banners are right now trying for another assault rifle ban.

Gun banners always pretend they aren't out to ban guns. But they don't fool anyone. Every opening they get to ban guns for no reason, they always take it.


hightor wrote:
in a discussion concerning the deadliest mass shootings it would be remiss of us not to be discussing assault-style weapons.

Actually your relentless focus on pistol grips kind of sabotages the discussion and prevents it from focusing on anything productive.

Which is fine with me. By devoting all of their energy to a futile attempt to ban assault rifles, the gun banners help the NRA to defeat all of their proposals.

Keep up the self-sabotage. Your efforts are appreciated.


hightor wrote:
You don't get to determine the subject under discussion, though. If people want to address the use of assault-styled weapons in mass shootings they will. And articles such as the one I quoted are evidence that, currently, that type of firearm is very much of interest.

What does it matter which cosmetic choices someone picks for their guns?
0 Replies
 
 

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