192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
BillW
 
  4  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:10 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

Quote:
He’s off the streets. You can’t arrest him, I guess, because he hasn’t done anything, but you know he’s like a boiler ready to explode, right?” the president said. “You can’t put him in jail, I guess, because he hasn’t done anything. But in the old days, you would put him into a mental institution.”

Trump also said that governments began closing institutions because of costs, and that such decisions were made by some of the governors in that room.

“We’re going to have to start talking about mental institutions, because a lot of folks in this room closed their mental institutions also,” he said. “We have no halfway. We have nothing between a prison and leaving him at his house, which we can’t do anymore. So I think you folks have to start thinking about that.”


Is he talking about himself? Negotiating a jail cell?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:13 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

That's bullshit.

There is a Florida law against threatening people and he did just that.

Why is it so important for you to excuse the failures of our government?

I wonder this too. Oh.

Nvmd.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:30 pm
Marco Rubio supporting changing FL gun laws to help ensure this doesn’t happen again. Appears to support new Red Flag laws.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bangordailynews.com/2018/02/18/politics/marco-rubio-democrats-call-for-red-flag-laws-to-enable-gun-seizures/
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:33 pm
@Brand X,
Brand X wrote:

Law enforcement could have enforced the Baker Act.

Quote:

Criteria are not met simply because a person has mental illness, appears to have mental problems, takes psychiatric medication, or has an emotional outburst.

Criteria are not met simply because a person refuses voluntary examination.

Criteria are not met if there are family members or friends that will help prevent any potential and present threat of substantial harm.


Moments in the past, when an individual may have considered harming themselves or another, do not qualify the individual as meeting the criteria. ("Near" means close, short, or draws near.)[5]'




the Baker Act is a pretty high hill to climb as it stands - and not particularly helpful

Quote:
Pinellas Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said a Florida resident can be involuntarily committed "15 times within the last month" and still legally buy a semi-automatic assault rifle like the one used in last week's massacre at a Broward high school.

Gualtieri said it's "wrong, it's erroneous, it's false" that if confessed mass murderer Nicolas Cruz had been Baker Acted, he couldn't get a gun. Those weapons should be confiscated by police while safeguarding a patient's legal rights, he said.

The sheriff also said there's no such thing as a background check on Florida gun buyers. Gun shops check for two things: a buyer's qualifying felony or a court adjudication that the buyer is mentally ill.

"It's not a background check. It's very limited and narrow in scope," Gualtieri said.


https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/26/588900401/broward-sheriff-under-scrutiny-for-handling-of-parkland-shooting

Quote:
"nearly all but two involved routine calls from [Cruz's] mother relating to parenting issues (her sons were fighting; her son was banging pool equipment against the house; etc)" and none involved "arrestable offences."

But some of the calls paint a darker picture than routine parenting issues, including instances in which Linda Cruz said Nikolas threw her against the wall for taking away his Xbox, and a report by a school counselor that "Cruz was alleged to have possibly ingested gasoline prior in an attempt to commit suicide and is cutting himself. Cruz indicated he wished to purchase a gun for hunting and was in possession of items concerning hate related communications/ symbols."

In these two incidents, mental health counselors advised that Cruz did not meet the criteria for the Baker Act.


all round seems like a bit of mess

I found this piece at Vox an interesting read / ymmv

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/2/6/14522132/gun-control-parkland-disabilities-republicans-nra-obama-liberty

Quote:
From what we know, the Obama-era rule would not have applied to the Parkland shooter

In Florida, where the Parkland shooting took place, the state’s involuntary commitment law, the Baker Act, took 195,000 people into custody for mental health evaluations the 2015-2016 fiscal year, less than 2 percent of whom were ultimately deemed a danger to self or others, and committed. (Many advocates fear that the Baker Act is overused, particularly for children.)

Most news reports have failed to note that, based on the best information available to us, the Parkland shooter would not have been identified by either definition of mental illness: He did not seem to have a representative payee or have a prior history of court-ordered involuntary commitment.

maporsche
 
  4  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:37 pm
@ehBeth,
I’m not sure how anyone could be against these new red flag laws. Well I could things of some reasons, but no Progressive ones.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:41 pm
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/27/17060358/new-hampshire-special-election-results

Quote:
Democrats just flipped two state legislative seats in Connecticut and New Hampshire


Philip Spagnuolo wins, marking the 40th special election seat Democrats have picked up since Trump’s election.


Quote:

According to an extremely useful comprehensives spreadsheet compiled by Daily Kos, across 70 special elections in 2017, Democrats ran 10 points ahead of Clinton and 7 points ahead of Obama’s 2012 results. Those numbers have accelerated into 2018. Across 16 races, Democrats are running 27 points ahead of Clinton and 15 points ahead of Barack Obama.

Historically speaking, special election results usually are somewhat predictive of midterm general election outcomes, though I don’t think anyone believes it’s realistic for Democrats to obtain a nationwide 27-point swing relative to Clinton’s numbers.
Lash
 
  -1  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:46 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Hey!
ehBeth
 
  3  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:47 pm
@maporsche,
I hope Mr. Rubio can move it forward and that other states consider similar action.
Real Music
 
  2  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:49 pm
Archie Bunker's Editorial on Gun Control

ehBeth
 
  4  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 08:06 pm
@ehBeth,
apparently Mr. Rubio can suck and blow

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article202489029.html

Quote:
February 27, 2018 07:06 PM

Updated 1 hour 42 minutes ago

WASHINGTON
Last week, Marco Rubio stared into the eyes of a father who lost his daughter during the nation’s deadliest high school shooting and made an announcement: Young adults should not be able to purchase guns.

“I absolutely believe that in this country, if you are 18 years of age you should not be able to buy a rifle. I will support a law that takes that right away,” Rubio said during an intense town hall event with Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School students, parents and alumni.

But one of Rubio’s own bills, which he has introduced twice, would overturn an assault weapons ban and legalize gun sales for young adults in the nation’s capital, allowing 18- to 21-year-olds in Washington, D.C. to purchase weapons like the AR-15 used in the Parkland shooting if federal law doesn’t change.

The Florida Republican introduced the Second Amendment Enforcement Act in 2015 and again in 2017 that would drastically change the District of Columbia’s gun laws. After introducing the bill for the first time in 2015 while seeking the Republican presidential nomination, Rubio’s National Rifle Association’s grade went from a B+ to an A.
camlok
 
  0  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 08:33 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
apparently Mr. Rubio can suck and blow


Isn't that the same thing? They all can.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  3  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 10:38 pm
I've mentioned this before and it has become almost conclusive from Congressional bearings today and actions from tRump, McConnell and Ryan.

It appears these three could care less about Russian attempts to hack our elections. Why? Simple, the Ruskies are on the side of the Republicans. Let them help get Reps elected in the fall.

How sad. We get closer and closer to an overthrow every day now.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Tue 27 Feb, 2018 11:31 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Further, when Ford discovered that a high percentage of Ford Pinto's gas tanks would explode after a rear-end accident (and decided not to tell anyone about it because recalls would be more expensive that settling with the families of the occupants who now looked like strips of bacon) there was not a single Ford exec or lawyer present and tossing in a match.


Do you blame CAA or AAA for that? Cause that is the equivalent of what you are talking about. The NRA makes neither guns nor bullets.

Do you wish to persist with your comparison here?
glitterbag
 
  4  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 01:00 am
@McGentrix,
Well you must only be grazing, so you missed the earlier comments. It's really OK, there are many people who are disinterested with current events and significant conversation....they watch The Real Housewives of Whatever. You really should go back to sleep...... maybe everything will be super-duper when you wake up.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 02:41 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
What rights?

Our right to carry guns is a civil right.


hightor wrote:
They work to uphold a certain interpretation of the 2nd Amendment which confers a single right to keep and bear arms.

The correct interpretation of the Second Amendment.

Minor nitpick: It doesn't confer a right. It protects a preexisting right.


hightor wrote:
What other "rights" are they protecting?

The Second Amendment is it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 02:53 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
No, you're not qualified.

Sure I am. I have actual experience with freedom.


Olivier5 wrote:
The word rings hollow in your mouth. It rings like the accepted, embraced servitude to a false god.

That's because you are frustrated that I refuse to give up my freedom.


Olivier5 wrote:
They say that obeying a law by choice is liberty,

When that law specifically protects my liberty and the liberty of other people, yes.


Olivier5 wrote:
but did you really chose to think that the lives of children ought to be sacrificed to a particular piece of individual freedom (the right to own and carry guns),

Very few lives are lost due to our right to carry guns.

Far far more lives are lost to car accidents.

Far far more lives are lost to swimming pools.

If you are out to save lives, you're way off base here.


Olivier5 wrote:
or were you born into a society or milieu that conditionned you to think so?

Setting aside for a moment the fact that our freedom is not costing very many lives, if it were the case that it did cost lives, our freedom would still be worth it.


Olivier5 wrote:
How would you even be able to weight or compare these two things: the safety of kids vs the right to bear arms?

There is no conflict between them that would require them to be weighed against each other.

On the other hand, it is easy to see the advantage in lives saved if you banned cars and swimming pools.

So if you are on some crusade to save lives, I guess we can see you out calling for a ban on those soon, right?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 02:57 am
@revelette1,
Quote:
An amendment to a Florida bill that would have banned assault-style rifles like the one used in the Parkland shooting failed in a vote by a Florida senate subcommittee. Disappointed demonstrators in orange shirts who are pushing for gun safety, pointed their finger at the lawmakers and chanted "shame" and "vote them out."

Any footage of the whiny brats breaking down in tears? I just love watching gun banners cry when their legislation is defeated or when we vote them out of office. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 02:59 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
he'll be claiming to have solved this issue and the one chance we may have had of getting someone to really face down the NRA will be lost.

You already had that chance in the 2013 gun control debacle.

The result was Obama's presidency being shattered and Trump being elected in 2016.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 03:04 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
He’s said we may have to take on the NRA. He’s outlined about four changes in gun laws that the NRA has fought stridently.

Which four things?

I'm guessing that a number of them are stuff that the NRA supports and the gun banners fight against.

Anything that the NRA opposes, Trump isn't going to do.


Lash wrote:
IF he continues to use his bully pulpit to affect these changes, will you credit him?

Why don't you credit the NRA for the policies that they've agreed to?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Wed 28 Feb, 2018 03:13 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
This is why I’ve harped on Obama and that criminal band of geriatric bloodsuckers in Congress.
They did nothing.

That isn't precisely true. They didn't try to reduce the number of people being killed, true. But they did make a massive push to violate our rights for the fun of it.


Lash wrote:
I want to know why.

Because the gun banners don't care about saving lives in the first place. They just think it is fun to violate our rights for no reason.


Lash wrote:
I think the power of the NRA goes deeper than the Republicans.

Yes.


Lash wrote:
It seems like it would take a powerful bipartisan effort to avoid doing something in light of the school shooting gallery we’ve witnessed in recent years.

True. And that is one big part of it.

But another big part of it is the fact that the gun banners aren't even trying to save lives. They are just out to violate people's rights for fun.
0 Replies
 
 

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