192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
hightor
 
  7  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:08 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
"We cannot resort to the lesser of two devils. Then we'd surely be better off without voting AT ALL."

Gee, sounds like something I may have read here before.
blatham
 
  5  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:15 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
The intent was to create an atmosphere of division and anger online. The Kremlin, the indictment says, wanted instability in America. It wanted to sway some people's vote, and for others, particularly minorities, persuade them not to vote at all.
And that is not in any marked way different in strategy from what the modern GOP is doing for perceived electoral gains. This of course doesn't suggest cooperative efforts. But it does suggest that bank robbers in Russia or the US or Botswana do many of the same things simply because of who they are and what they are up to.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:19 am
@hightor,
No kidding!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:22 am
These paragraphs will pass a fact check
Quote:
[Trump] brushed it off as a hoax. He mused that it might be China, or a guy from New Jersey, or “somebody sitting on their bed who weighs 400 pounds.” He said President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia had assured him it wasn’t true. And, he added, “I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it.”

President Trump has never stopped belittling the charge that Russia meddled in the 2016 presidential election. But on Friday, with the indictment of 13 Russians for orchestrating a vast, well-funded operation to interfere in the election, those denials collided with a mountain of evidence arrayed by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III.

For Mr. Trump, who has tried to discredit Mr. Mueller’s investigation as a politically motivated witch hunt, it was a direct assault on the version of reality that he has sought tirelessly to create.
NYT
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  6  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:41 am
@blatham,
Quote:
Trump and the White House were quick to argue that the indictment of 13 Russian nationals further indicated there was no collusion between Russian operatives and the campaign — and that the vast Russian operation, dubbed “information warfare” by the Justice Department, had no impact on the election result.

Whether there was any actual collusion or not is a question which may eventually be determined by looking at actual evidence of meetings, statements, and timelines. Whether any minds were changed and whether Trump got votes he wouldn't have otherwise remains murky and any "proof" would be mostly anecdotal. Imagine trying to find 40 thousand people who would admit that they had been Hillary supporters but the picture of her in a cage convinced them to switch sides.
Quote:
According to the document, the Russian nationals and their associates paid people attending pro-Donald Trump rallies in Florida to carry out numerous “tasks,” including asking one to construct a cage at an event and another to dress up as Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton behind bars.

“Defendants and their co-conspirators asked one U.S. person to build a cage on a flatbed truck and another U.S. person to wear a costume portraying Clinton in a prison uniform,” the indictment read.

Calls for Clinton to be jailed were persistent at Trump rallies throughout 2016, with crowds often breaking out into chants of “Lock her up!” In local reports from 2016 rallies in Florida, rally-goers can be seen staging Clinton displays with caged mannequins.

Politico
The steady drumbeat of anti-Clinton propaganda compiled by the domestic right which had been accumulating since the 80's, her poor campaign style, her inconveniently embarrassing husband, and of course the unrelated Coomey investigation — especially the Weiner episode a week before the election — all worked to chip away at her once comfortable lead. It's hard to see why the Russian meddling couldn't have added to the momentum and pushed more votes away from her but it's not a claim that can be announced with certainty. The frantic denials from the White House (the "line from Trump"!) tend to make the charges look like they're hitting pretty close to home.
blatham
 
  7  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:45 am
Quote:

After the Parkland shooting, pro-Russian bots are pushing false-flag allegations again

...And this is just the beginning. Over the next few days, many of these same kinds of accounts will invent a whole range of conspiracy theories about the shooting. If the past repeats itself, pro-Russian, alt-right, white-supremacist and pro-gun social media accounts will promote the same hashtags and indulge in the same conspiracy theories. Each group has its own interests in pushing #falseflag, but the Russian interest is clear. They do it because it helps undermine trust in institutions — the police, the FBI, the media — as well as in the government itself. They also do it because it helps to amplify extremist views that will deepen polarization in U.S. political life and create ever angrier, ever more partisan divides.
WP
Builder
 
  -4  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:46 am
@hightor,
Quote:
Whether there was any actual collusion or not is a question which may eventually be determined by looking at actual evidence of meetings, statements, and timelines. Whether any minds were changed and whether Trump got votes he wouldn't have otherwise remains murky and any "proof" would be mostly anecdotal. Imagine trying to find 40 thousand people who would admit that they had been Hillary supporters but the picture of her in a cage convinced them to switch sides.


That's gold, right there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIRYvJQeHM
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:55 am
@blatham,
The Troll Farm: What We Know About 13 Russians Indicted by the U.S.
Quote:
ST. PETERSBURG, Russia — Operating from St. Petersburg, they churned out falsehoods on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. They promoted Donald J. Trump and denigrated Hillary Clinton. They stole the identities of American citizens. They organized political rallies in several states, and hired a Clinton impersonator for one event, in West Palm Beach, Fla.

On Friday, 13 Russians were indicted by a federal grand jury in Washington on fraud and other charges. Details of their roles in a three-year campaign to disrupt American democracy have begun to emerge from the indictment, other records, interviews and press accounts.

... ... ... ... ... ..
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:58 am
This dude has become a very scummy little worm
Quote:
Tucker Carlson blames Trump/Russia investigation for keeping FBI agents "too busy to stop school shootings"
MM
And this makes sense because the FBI has a meager staff of 30-40 thousand.
hightor
 
  6  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 07:04 am
@blatham,
I pointed out on another thread that numerous calls by people worried about Cruz were made to local law enforcement agencies in Florida and none of these were heeded or acted upon either. And it really is something more properly dealt with on the local level. It's surprising to hear the right-wing calling for some sort of national police force to monitor social media and track mentally disturbed people instead of telling the Feds, "Stay away, we can handle this fine right here in our community."
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 07:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
H. R. McMaster, Trump's National Security Adviser, said a couple of minutes ago at the Munich Security Conference, Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election campaign is "undisputed".
blatham
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 07:19 am
@hightor,
I have to tell you that when I returned to A2K I was very surprised at the vehement anti-Hillary sentiments I saw from a lot of people. It verged on blood-thirst. Coming from the right, of course that would happen and we'd seen it happening for a couple of years prior to the election (Benghazi was all about the election). From the left though it was weird. We knew that the GOP and its allies would move to attack Clinton from the left through misrepresentations and dirty tricks and we knew they'd use all the old attack themes re the Clintons because that's the way they roll these days. But very few had any idea at all of the Russian involvement here. And as we learn more about what the Russians were up to and the sophistication of it, it is impossible for me to divorce comments from a number of posters here and themes the Russians were creating.
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  3  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 07:21 am
@BillW,
BillW wrote:

There are unnamed, currently unindicted co-conspirators of American citizenship mentioned in his indictment also.


This is one bit that caught my eye too. And it confuses me how Rosenstein can then say, "There is no allegation in the indictment that any American was a knowing participant in the alleged unlawful activity."

Maybe I'm missing something there, but it doesn't add up
blatham
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 07:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It will be very interesting to see what revelations are yet to come.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 07:27 am
@hightor,
Quote:
It's surprising to hear the right-wing calling for some sort of national police force to monitor social media and track mentally disturbed people instead of telling the Feds, "Stay away, we can handle this fine right here in our community."
I'd say it is inconsistent but not surprising (though I'm sure that's what you mean). Though such a force is exactly what the right has been idiotically paranoid about for decades, in the immediate circumstance, it is a convenient dodge to invalidate Mueller and to protect citizens rights to carry flame-throwers, grenades and gattling guns into movie theaters, churches, and pre-school classrooms.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 07:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
H. R. McMaster, Trump's National Security Adviser, said a couple of minutes ago at the Munich Security Conference, Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election campaign is "undisputed".
Trump, of course, was briefed on what Intel knew even before he entered the WH. But he has lied about this consistently since then. He can't get away with that same lie now, nor can Fox and other such entities. Progress, of a sort.
blatham
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 07:37 am
@thack45,
You guys point to a definite oddity. I think there's some very careful threading of words and sentences, surely for legal reasons, but I'm at a loss to explain the apparent contradiction.
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  3  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 07:49 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

This is precious
Quote:
The White House also released a statement from press secretary Sarah Sanders that said there was “NO COLLUSION between the Trump campaign and Russia and that the outcome of the election was not changed or affected.”

The White House statement also included a line from Trump calling for an end to “the outlandish partisan attacks, wild and false allegations, and far-fetched theories, which only serve to further the agendas of bad actors, like Russia, and do nothing to protect the principles of our institutions.”
Politico

A "line from Trump" that is not. But note the claim: the threats to institutions of democracy come from the reporting on Russian meddling. Further, the "outlandish partisan attacks, wild and false allegations, and far-fetched theories" is straight propaganda - most of the reporting/analysis on Russian meddling has proved amazingly accurate.


It's a daring card to play, given that Trump has done every single bit – demonstrably – of what you have bolded in the above quote. Or at least it used to be daring, but this admin has done it before, and no one of consequence has called the bluff.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 09:20 am
@blatham,
The Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said claims of election interference were "just blather".
McMaster gave an answer that could cause biggest problems for Trump.


Quote:
"As you can see with the FBI indictment, the evidence is now really incontrovertible and available in the public domain, whereas in the past it was difficult to attribute for a couple reasons."

Quote:
"First, technically, it was difficult. But second, you didn’t want to divulge your intelligence capabilities, but now that this is in the arena of a law enforcement investigation, it will be very apparent to everyone."
blatham
 
  6  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 09:20 am
Quote:
Paul Waldman
‏@paulwaldman1
Trump:
- Literally CONGRATULATED first responders, like they just won a contest
- Said their speed was "record-setting," though that's not a thing
- Didn't talk to victims' families
- Barely mentioned victims at all

What a guy.
 

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