192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 12:37 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
Pretty weak argument, peeps. Waste of time and money, much like the election.
And your legal expertise about "weak argument" is based on what evidence what the Grand Jury for the District of Columbia didn't get?
NB: Trump can fire Mueller, but he can’t fire the grand jury.
Builder
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 01:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Get your comprehension glasses on, Walter. The social platforms, in particular the facebook platform, is not owned by the united states govt. It is a global platform, and can be accessed by anybody with a modem and internet device.

Ergo, if such platform is deemed to have had an input, negative or positive, in the results of any election, in any nation, there's jack **** you can do about it in any court of law in any nation.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 01:12 am
@Builder,
Well, I bow to your superior knowledge of US-laws! I didn't study it, so you're certainly correct.
Builder
 
  -2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 01:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Ask yourself two questions, Walter; how does a president win an election? They raise enough money to buy enough advertising, right?

How does a candidate lose an election? They don't campaign in enough states, right?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 01:54 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
The indictment is here.

I'm curious (but not quite curious enough to research it myself), are the Russians who have been indicted currently residing in the US so they can be arrested?

Or is this an indictment of people who are currently living in a comfortable apartment in Moscow?
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 02:04 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
NB: Trump can fire Mueller, but he can’t fire the grand jury.

Without a prosecutor I don't see how a grand jury is going to achieve much.

Personally I'd advise firing Mueller if he tries to attack Trump or Trump's family. Although I'd advise waiting and seeing if he does that before acting. Liberal hopes that Mueller is targeting Trump may well turn out to be just more of their usual delusions.

I know I've said that firing Mueller would be a headache because there would then be legislation reinstating him, and the legislation would be tied to something that Trump wouldn't want to veto. But now I'm thinking that he should just sign the law and have the courts strike down the offending provisions.

He should still issue mass pardons too of course.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 02:08 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Or is this an indictment of people who are currently living in a comfortable apartment in Moscow?


This is an indictment to show that it doesn't matter where these people are; you can use social media any damn way you like, and it makes not one iota of difference if you come from Istanbul, or Moscow, or East Timor.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 02:12 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Or is this an indictment of people who are currently living in a comfortable apartment in Moscow?
They are working mainly from St. Petersburg. No idea where they actually live.
Setanta
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 02:40 am
The Russians (and one American from California) have been indicted for attempting to defraud the United States, conspiring to commit wire fraud and bank fraud, and committing identity fraud. The laws under which the indictments were written are not specific as to the methods, or communications platforms employed. As always, the boy from down under doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Builder
 
  -2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 02:47 am
@Setanta,
Read the indictment, Canuckster. I posted it for perusal.

My comments related to the social media platform usage.

It would be in your personal interests if you did some growing up, and realising it's not all about you.

Or me.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 02:52 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
.... indicted for attempting to defraud the United States, conspiring to commit wire fraud and bank fraud,.....


Ya know, this describes exactly what the bankers did in the lead-up to the GFC.

Thanks for the reminder that it's not actually a crime in the US of A, and if required, the perps can access govt handouts.
0 Replies
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 03:56 am
The indictment is a unique document: for the first time, the public are given a precise and detailed insight into the secret election campaign of Russian agents in the USA between 2014 and 2016, including names, accounts, addresses, strategies and backers - whatever opinion some backers of this strategy here have about it. (Perhaps they live in Denyograd, too.)
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 04:06 am
@Walter Hinteler,
In other words, a publicity stunt.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 04:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:
The indictment is a unique document: for the first time....


What gives you that impression, Walter? It's one of many indictments.

I can list dozens of elections the US of A has clandestinely and/or openly attempted to influence, and when that failed, they stage a coup, even using the military, if they have to.

What's so special about using social media to affect social change?

Is it that the PTB don't have control over that change?

Are you that trained and controlled that you're convinced that if it is not done by the PTB, then it must be stopped?



Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 05:44 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
What gives you that impression, Walter? It's one of many indictments.
I haven't heard of anything similar before. But you cab convince me, when you post other indictments with Russian adresses, names etc. .

I don't know what you mean with "PTB" - certainly not pulmonary tuberculosis (my father was the head physician of two related clinics), or the Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (an acquaintance worked there and I could visit some institutes).

Builder
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 05:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
I haven't heard of anything similar before


Make google your friend, Walter. search "US indictments Russia"

PTB is simply an acronym.

Given time, you'll figure it out.
blatham
 
  2  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 05:58 am
This is precious
Quote:
The White House also released a statement from press secretary Sarah Sanders that said there was “NO COLLUSION between the Trump campaign and Russia and that the outcome of the election was not changed or affected.”

The White House statement also included a line from Trump calling for an end to “the outlandish partisan attacks, wild and false allegations, and far-fetched theories, which only serve to further the agendas of bad actors, like Russia, and do nothing to protect the principles of our institutions.”
Politico

A "line from Trump" that is not. But note the claim: the threats to institutions of democracy come from the reporting on Russian meddling. Further, the "outlandish partisan attacks, wild and false allegations, and far-fetched theories" is straight propaganda - most of the reporting/analysis on Russian meddling has proved amazingly accurate.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 05:59 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
PTB is simply an acronym.
I'd thought, you were a native English speaker, my bad - nocte dulci fruere!
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 17 Feb, 2018 06:00 am
How the Russians did it.

Quote:
The tactics of a Russian troll farm

The indictment of 13 Russians charged with attempting to manipulate American voters using social media shines a fascinating light on a sophisticated, relentless operation to exploit the internet for political gain. Here's how US investigators say the Russians did it.

It was 2014, and in a building in St Petersburg, the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) was already hard at work building its arsenal to take on US politics.

According to US prosecutors, the IRA had gathered stolen identities of real Americans, and a formidable encyclopaedia of what "works" on social media when it comes to riling up Americans talking about politics. Two members of the agency were said to have travelled to the US to gather more intelligence, a fact-finding tour taking in nine states, according to investigators.

Back on Russian soil, the IRA began posing online as US volunteers in order to gather tips on how to effectively target voters. One real volunteer, based in Texas, told the Russians to aim for the "purple states" - those where the race was going to be tighter. And so they did, prosecutors say.

By 2016, operations had ramped up as the presidential election drew near. The IRA is alleged to have had a budget of more than a million dollars, and the US now claims they used it to buy advertising on sites such as Twitter and Facebook.

"Hillary Clinton doesn't deserve the black vote!" read one, posted in May 2016.

"Trump is our only hope for a better future!" read another just under a month later.

The intent was to create an atmosphere of division and anger online. The Kremlin, the indictment says, wanted instability in America. It wanted to sway some people's vote, and for others, particularly minorities, persuade them not to vote at all.

Moscow vociferously denies meddling in the US vote and called the allegations "absurd".

The indictment says that the IRA controlled an Instagram account called "Woke Blacks".

"A particular hype and hatred for Trump is misleading the people and forcing Blacks to vote Killary," one message, posted by the account in October 2017, declared.

"We cannot resort to the lesser of two devils. Then we'd surely be better off without voting AT ALL."

Prosecutors said Russian operatives would work shifts to make sure their posting times matched the timezone of the area they were pretending to be based.

But the work was round-the-clock. When the operatives - they called themselves "specialists" - weren't posting, they were learning and getting feedback on writing style. They were said to be constantly monitoring the viral success of their approach, tweaking and adjusting to maximise retweets and the spread of the message. The team is also said to have had a list of US public holidays, and appropriate content ready to go so they would blend in.

According to court documents, the IRA took several measures to hide its tracks, duping the technology companies who were unaware, or unable, to stop what was filtering through their systems.

The key - and obvious - move was to hide the fact that these posts were coming from Russia. For that, the IRA is said to have used several Virtual Private Networks - VPNs - to route their operations through computers in the US. The operatives allegedly used stolen identities to set up PayPal accounts using real American names.

The indictment outlines a campaign so effective at reaching American voters, US businesses began paying the Russians to run promotional material. The IRA would charge the businesses - presumably unaware who was behind the account - between $25-$50 per post.

It wasn't difficult to transfer this online anger into real life displays on American streets.

From their desks in St Petersburg, and using fake American personas such as enthusiastic volunteer "Matt Skiber", the Russian operatives are alleged to have orchestrated real-life protests and demonstrations.

In one, a person dressed as Hillary Clinton in prison attire stood inside a purpose-built cage on the back of a flatbed truck, investigators say.

The IRA is said to have paid for advertisements on Facebook that pushed rallies in the "purple" states it had been advised to target by the volunteer on the ground in Texas.

Once Mr Trump was elected, investigators said the IRA moved to sow more discontent. It pushed two conflicting demonstrations in New York, one in support of the new president-elect and another bearing the message "Trump is NOT my President".

In the process, the IRA is said to have built up a list of more than 100 real Americans who it had contacted for help in organising these real-world efforts - none of them aware they were puppets in a most audacious Russian campaign. A campaign that, as far as we know, is very much ongoing.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43093390
 

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