192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 02:40 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
No, I meant the prosecution - the public prosecutor's offices are criminal justice bodies attached to the judiciary (since 1846).

I hope there is some degree of separation between the judges and the prosecution.

If the judges and prosecution are on the same team, it might make it hard to defend an innocent person.
layman
 
  -1  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 02:40 pm
@oralloy,
Thanks for the tip, Roy. I never used that incognito feature before.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 02:49 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
I hope there is some degree of separation between the judges and the prosecution.

If the judges and prosecution are on the same team, it might make it hard to defend an innocent person.
Since 1846 there are separate institutions of courts and public prosecution offices (in Prussia, in other German states later, generally following the related articles in the Frankfurt Constitution of 1849)

Public prosecution is a senior judicial service belonging to the same corps as judges - offices cover the territory of a regional court with "general public prosecution offices" for higher regional court. Prosecutors are career civil servants.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -4  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 03:04 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Washington Post wrote:
It is wrong to say that this “Western intelligence source,” presumably Steele, formed the foundation of an article in which at least three other sources featured more prominently.
Full report


From the article:
Yahoo wrote:
...Page met with Igor Sechin, a longtime Putin associate and former Russian deputy prime minister who is now the executive chairman of Rosneft, Russian’s leading oil company, a well-placed Western intelligence source tells Yahoo News... At their alleged meeting, Sechin raised the issue of the lifting of sanctions with Page, the Western intelligence source said.


These allegations are evidently completely fabricated--Page filed a lawsuit after they were published and no corroboration of them has ever surfaced. They came from Steele, and Steele alone. Of course the FBI application said they did NOT come from Steele, and that hence Isikoff must have his own informed sources who discovered it.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 03:50 pm
@izzythepush,
Call her scum for bullying small nations.

Don’t use her vagina against her by implying she’s ******* Trump. It’s nothing more than a low sexist smear.
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Lash
 
  3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 04:18 pm
@oralloy,
Well, I guess if you have your hand out to the US, you should expect to be bossed around by your benefactor, but I thought Haley’s performance that day in the UN was a very low moment in American history.
Builder
 
  -3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 06:41 pm
What's interesting (to me) about the responses to the Nunes memo, is that people are quoting from the same media sources that are implicated in the whole scandal.

As if they're not going to discredit a story that could see them all facing yuuuuuuge fines, for participating in the corruption of democracy, and using a carriage service to spread propaganda.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 07:07 pm
Quote:
“Chairman Nunes’ decision, supported by House Speaker Ryan and Republican Members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, to publicly release misleading allegations against the Department of Justice and Federal Bureau of Investigation is a shameful effort to discredit these institutions, undermine the Special Counsel’s ongoing investigation, and undercut congressional probes. Furthermore, their refusal to allow release of a comprehensive response memorandum prepared by Committee Democrats is a transparent effort to suppress the full truth.

“As the DOJ emphasized to Chairman Nunes, the decision to employ an obscure and never before used House rule to release classified information without DOJ and FBI vetting was ‘extraordinarily reckless.’ The selective release and politicization of classified information sets a terrible precedent and will do long-term damage to the Intelligence Community and our law enforcement agencies. If potential intelligence sources know that their identities might be compromised when political winds arise, those sources of vital information will simply dry up, at great cost to our national security.

“The Republican document mischaracterizes highly sensitive classified information that few Members of Congress have seen, and which Chairman Nunes himself chose not to review. It fails to provide vital context and information contained in DOJ’s FISA application and renewals, and ignores why and how the FBI initiated, and the Special Counsel has continued, its counterintelligence investigation into Russia’s election interference and links to the Trump campaign. The sole purpose of the Republican document is to circle the wagons around the White House and insulate the President. Tellingly, when asked whether the Republican staff who wrote the memo had coordinated its drafting with the White House, the Chairman refused to answer.

“The premise of the Nunes memo is that the FBI and DOJ corruptly sought a FISA warrant on a former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, Carter Page, and deliberately misled the court as part of a systematic abuse of the FISA process. As the Minority memo makes clear, none of this is true. The FBI had good reason to be concerned about Carter Page and would have been derelict in its responsibility to protect the country had it not sought a FISA warrant.

“In order to understand the context in which the FBI sought a FISA warrant for Carter Page, it is necessary to understand how the investigation began, what other information the FBI had about Russia’s efforts to interfere with our election, and what the FBI knew about Carter Page prior to making application to the court – including Carter Page’s previous interactions with Russian intelligence operatives. This is set out in the Democratic response which the GOP so far refuses to make public.

“The authors of the GOP memo would like the country to believe that the investigation began with Christopher Steele and the dossier, and if they can just discredit Mr. Steele, they can make the whole investigation go away regardless of the Russians’ interference in our election or the role of the Trump campaign in that interference. This ignores the inconvenient fact that the investigation did not begin with, or arise from Christopher Steele or the dossier, and that the investigation would persist on the basis of wholly independent evidence had Christopher Steele never entered the picture.

“The DOJ appropriately provided the court with a comprehensive explanation of Russia’s election interference, including evidence that Russian agents courted another Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, George Papadopoulos. As we know from Papadopoulos’ guilty plea, Russian agents disclosed to Papadopoulos their possession of stolen Clinton emails and interest in a relationship with the campaign. In claiming that there is ‘no evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos,’ the Majority deliberately misstates the reason why DOJ specifically explained Russia’s role in courting Papadopoulos and the context in which to evaluate Russian approaches to Page.

“The Majority suggests that the FBI failed to alert the court as to Mr. Steele’s potential political motivations or the political motivations of those who hired him, but this is not accurate. The GOP memo also claims that a Yahoo News article was used to corroborate Steele, but this is not at all why the article was referenced. These are but a few of the serious mischaracterizations of the FISA application. There are many more set out in the Democratic response, which we will again be seeking a vote to release publicly on Monday, February 5th. Unlike Committee Republicans, however, we will ask the relevant agencies to propose any necessary redactions to protect any sources and methods not already disclosed by Chairman Nunes’ document.

“It is telling that Chairman Nunes put out this memo without bothering to read the underlying materials, and that he ordered changes to the document without informing his own committee members. It is a terrible lapse in leadership that Speaker Ryan failed to intervene and prevent the abuse of classified materials in this way. It is tragic, if all too predictable, that this President would allow the release of the memo despite FBI and DOJ’s expressions of ‘grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the [Republicans’] memo’s accuracy’. But most destructive of all may be the announcement by Chairman Nunes that he has placed the FBI and DOJ under investigation, impugning and impairing the work of the dedicated professionals trying to keep our country safe.”


US House of Representatives,Permanent Select Committee Intelligence Democrats
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Builder
 
  -3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 07:16 pm
@revelette1,
Rev, this was posted already, and says nothing substantial, or worthy of commentary.

What is extraordinarly reckless, is how such information came to be available to anyone else but the perps involved.

This won't be going away, just because you put your fingers in your ears, and yell stuff.

And I will repeat, for the slow learners, that the DOJ and FBI had a whole week to prepare a defense or rebuttal, but didn't come up with anything.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 07:19 pm
@oralloy,
She threatened small countries to vote with us or risk consequences.

To me, in every instance, I think that’s wrong.

No one should coerce any person or any entity to change their vote.
Real Music
 
  3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 07:45 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Note also that a sitting president cannot be indicted.

That is still an open question. That has never been argued before the courts.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 07:58 pm
@Real Music,
Whether or not that is true a sitting president will never be indicted for any crime short of murder.
Real Music
 
  3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 08:11 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Whether or not that is true a sitting president will never be indicted for any crime short of murder.

In order to avoid creating a constitutional crisis, you are probably correct.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 08:15 pm
When Trump was asked if he still had confidence in Rosenstein he said: "You figure that out."

Heh.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 08:17 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

No one should coerce any person or any entity to change their vote.


You had it right the first time, Hunnychile:

Lash wrote:
Well, I guess if you have your hand out to the US, you should expect to be bossed around by your benefactor
layman
 
  -3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 08:17 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

No one should coerce any person or any entity to change their vote.


You had it right the first time, Hunnychile:

Lash wrote:
Well, I guess if you have your hand out to the US, you should expect to be bossed around by your benefactor
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Sat 3 Feb, 2018 08:19 pm
@layman,
I won't give a bum on the corner two bits unless he barks like a dog for a good long spell.

I aint coercing nobody.

His choice, ya know?

He wants two bits, I want some entertainment. Fair trade, I figure.
0 Replies
 
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