192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:31 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Ou bien un p'tit Maroilles... :-) C'est moins cher.

When i lived in NYC, I had an excellent fromager around Columbus and 85th. He would get me anything i wanted, except of course the raw milk stuff.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:31 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I have read accusations. I hadn’t previously seen the details in your post.

But I do know that you don’t know what he did anymore than I do.


Of course I do. You don't even know what he was ACCUSED of doing, let alone what he actually did. There's a zero percent chance that I know as little about Moore and his allegations and actions as you do.

You're coming from a position of pure ignorance, yet voicing an opinion as if you actually had researched. Why do this? Just to troll the thread? Why discuss something you haven't even looked into. When you say 'I have read accusations,' that's not really true, is it?

Cycloptichorn
maporsche
 
  4  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:33 am
@Lash,
I really don’t understand how you choose when to engage restraint when hearing unproven accusations and when you choose to believe every one of them to obsessive degrees.

BillW
 
  2  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:34 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
Moore is accused by several women of pursuing sexual relationships with them when they were teenagers, molesting a 14-year-old and sexually assaulting a 16-year-old when he was in his 30s. He has repeatedly denied the allegations.

"I never molested anyone," he said Sunday on the "Voice of Alabama Politics" show.

Wait a second, man — he said he never molested anyone. But he doesn't deny "pursuit" — nor, specifically, "assault" — in this story. If someone is accusing you of shooting the sheriff to say that you didn't shoot the deputy isn't much of a defense.

Moore's not doing much for unrepentant male neanderthals by denying the allegations. It's not much of a victory to be elected in the face of false allegations. No, he should admit to the charges. That way, if victorious, he really wins. No ambiguity, no second-guessing, no should've's and if only's.


Moore never assaulted because he had their consent or the consent of the mother. Evangelical morals suck!
layman
 
  -4  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:38 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I hereby acknowledge that blatham is the originator of the "No **** Sherlock Award" occasionally appearing in this thread.


Bad acknowledgement, Finn. That format has been around at least 50-60 years, and probably first appeared shortly after Doyle started writing his Holmes short stories.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  3  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:39 am
@Cycloptichorn,
She knows it! This just proves how immoral she is!
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:40 am
@Cycloptichorn,
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/11/09/sanders-roy-moore-should-step-aside/

Quote:
Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) called on Republican Alabama Senate nominee Judge Roy Moore to step aside and hoped that Moore will not be his colleague in the Senate.

Sanders said, “Let us hope that he will not be my colleague, or anybody else’s colleague. You know, I think you have heard, Chris, that there are a number of Republicans who are saying that at this particular time, given these horrific charges against Mr. Moore, that it would be appropriate for him to step aside, and I support that. I agree with that.”


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-access-hollywood-tape-2016-resign-president-us-a8098616.html

Quote:
Former presidential candidate says the country needs a 'cultural revolution' in the way women are treated


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/roy-moore-alabama-mall-sexual-harassment-teenage-girls-senate-race-claims-a8054481.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/woman-says-roy-moore-initiated-sexual-encounter-when-she-was-14-he-was-32/2017/11/09/1f495878-c293-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html?utm_term=.c3cf740a1d21
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:42 am
@BillW,
BillW wrote:
Evangelical morals suck!


it's hard to argue against that point
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  2  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:43 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

In nursing/medicine there’s a concept called “triage”. It’s the understanding that resources and time are limited and the worst cases need to be treated before you focus on the minor scrapes and bruises.

I’m going to do that here.


And don’t make the mistake of believing that the moral outrage and public attention to this issue is a limited resource.

If we can keep up the outrage after Sandy Hook then there’s no chance that this movement has much lasting power. At least not in the public eye.


Another point if tirage is to determine those that are so bad, there is no hope are unfortunatley left to last after tourniquets are applied. Most of the cases on this site are fatal!
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  4  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:45 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

I really don’t understand how you choose when to engage restraint when hearing unproven accusations and when you choose to believe every one of them to obsessive degrees.




Simple, if Repukelian - innocent; if Dem - guilty. Pure triabism!
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:52 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
When i lived in NYC, I had an excellent fromager around Columbus and 85th. He would get me anything i wanted, except of course the raw milk stuff.

I have no idea what a fromager is, but there is a business called Fromages that imports French cheese to the US. They made the news back during the 2003 Iraq war because a bunch of nutcases in the US were trying to boycott them or something.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/feb/13/france.jonhenley

http://www.francetoday.com/food-drink/fromages-best-french-cheeses-delivered-doorstep/
layman
 
  -4  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 11:57 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Try telling a 14 year old's mom that he'd take care of her while the mom is in court, then driving the girl back to his house, getting her drunk, and sexually assaulting her.


You can't even get the unproven allegations right, eh? According to Time (and all others I've seen):

Time wrote:
The allegations: Leigh Corfman told the Washington Post that she met Moore in 1979 when she was just 14 years old. The then-district attorney offered to watch Corfman while her mother attended a custody hearing, she said, and he asked for her phone number when he was alone with her. Corfman said that days later, Moore drove her to his house and kissed her. During a second encounter, he allegedly took off her shirt and pants and touched her over her underwear and led her hands to touch him over his underwear. “I wanted it over with,” Corfman told the Post.

Moore’s response: “It never happened,” Moore said during an interview with Sean Hannity. “I don’t know Miss Corfman from anybody. I never talked to or never had any contact with her. Allegations of sexual misconduct with her are completely false. I believe they’re politically motivated.


http://time.com/5029172/roy-moore-accusers/

He "then" got her phone number, the claim is, not "then driving the girl back to his house."

On a different day, he allegedly kissed her.

On yet a third day, he allegedly had some sexual interaction with her.

There is no allegation whatsoever that he "got her drunk."

These are minor details, granted, but your know it all attitude is completely unwarranted.

Furthermore, Lash only addressed what you (don't) know about what Moore DID, not about what allegations were made by one person. Implicitly, you are asserting that you know he did the things alleged.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 12:05 pm
Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. federal judge on Monday issued a stern warning to President Donald Trump’s former campaign manager Paul Manafort to refrain from making statements to the media that could harm his right to a fair trial.

Jackson said she should would consider any similar future behavior to be a violation of her Nov. 8 gag order not to discuss the case with the media or make public statements in ways that could affect its outcome.

She also stopped short of granting a request from Special Counsel Robert Mueller to deny Manafort’s proposal for more lenient bail terms, saying she would take his proposal to lift his house arrest in exchange for posting four real estate properties as collateral under advisement and rule at a later date.
Source
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 12:09 pm
@layman,
You always debate a point which really don't amount to a hill of beans. Who cares when he allegedly sexually assaulted the 14 year old girl, the point is that he has been credibly accused of it. Wasn't that term used of Clinton's and Franklin's accusers? Credibly?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 12:22 pm
Quote:
Who cares when he allegedly sexually assaulted the 14 year old girl, the point is that he has been credibly accused of it.


Credibly, you say? How was that determined?

Quote:
Regarding the original court hearing where Corfman says that Moore asker her for her number while Wells went inside the courtroom, the Post reported that it “confirmed that her mother attended a hearing at the courthouse in February 1979 through divorce records.”

A thorough search of court documents finds one court case in February 1979—a case that took place on February 21, 1979. The Post failed to tell readers that at that February 21, 1979, court case Wells voluntarily gave up custody of Corfman to Corfman’s father, Robert R. Corfman. The two had been divorced since 1974. The custody case was amicable and involved a joint petition by both parents.

Neither Corfman nor Wells publicly mentioned the change in custody during the critical period where Moore was said to have arranged meetings with Corfman outside her mother’s home.

The Post strongly implied that the alleged encounter with Moore caused Corfman to exhibit reckless behavior in her teenage years.

The Post reported:

Quote:
After talking to her friends, Corfman says, she began to feel that she had done something wrong and kept it a secret for years.

“I felt responsible,” she says. “I felt like I had done something bad. And it kind of set the course for me doing other things that were bad.”

She says that her teenage life became increasingly reckless with drinking, drugs, boyfriends, and a suicide attempt when she was 16.


The Post failed to mention that the very reason for the February 21, 1979, court hearing where Moore allegedly met Corfman was because, according to the court documents, Corfman had exhibited “certain disciplinary and behavioral problems.” In other words, Corfman evidence behavioral problems prior to the alleged encounters with Moore.

Indeed, those stated “disciplinary and behavioral problems” were cited in the joint petition to change custody as the cause for both Wells and Corfman’s father agreeing that Corfman would be better served living with her father. The parents signed a “consent decree” going along with the change in custody.

The Washington Post cited Corfman as remembering that she provided Moore with her number when she was 14. She said that she spoke to Moore from what she described as the phone in her bedroom.

Speaking by phone to Breitbart News, Wells, 71, says that her daughter did not have a phone in her bedroom during the period that Moore is reported to have allegedly called Corfman—purportedly on Corfman’s bedroom phone—to arrange at least one encounter

The Post cited Corfman as saying that Moore, according to the newspaper’s characterization, “picked her up around the corner from her [mother's] house in Gadsden.”

The Post mentions the specific intersection where Corfman says that Moore picked her up around the corner from her mother’s house. The Post reports, “She says she talked to Moore on her phone in her bedroom, and they made plans for him to pick her up at Alcott Road and Riley Street, around the corner from her house.”

DuPre said that intersection was almost a mile away from her mother’s house at the time and would have been across a major thoroughfare.


No possible credibility problems with this 14 year old juvenile delinquent, eh?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 12:23 pm
@oralloy,
Fromage = cheese; fromager = cheese seller, cheese shop. The word comes from formage = "made in a forme" = "made in a mould". The Italian formagio retains the "form" radical.

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 12:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I have advocating applying the same standard to all accused. That is my primary concern. If we do that, I’ll be satisfied with where chips fall.

Will you?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 12:28 pm
@maporsche,
No triage needed. There are resources enough to apply justice.

If not, I’ll be the one who decides who walks and who hangs.

I hope you get the message.
Lash
 
  -2  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 12:30 pm
@maporsche,
You based your remark on an untrue premise.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Mon 11 Dec, 2017 12:31 pm
@Lash,
Maybe you're not following the analogy.

If you insist on equating Moore/Trump/Weinstein to what Ellen did then I'm not wasting my time on you. What Ellen did deserves basically-zero discussion until the more serious issues are addressed.
 

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