192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
hightor
 
  6  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 07:57 am
Trumpocalypse: The End Game

Timothy Egan, DEC. 8, 2017 NYT

Quote:
You can see where this is headed, the once bright and shiny democracy going down the drain before the holidays are out. The Russians, the special counsel Robert S. Mueller III and his agents, desperate men flipped and singing to save their souls — all may soon be gone, by President Trump’s design.

If there’s any outrage left in the tank, use it now, because Trump has signaled exactly what he’s going to do. First, he had to set some brush fires, impugning the legitimacy of the rule of law — an old dictator’s trick. Trump is no Hitler, but when the German Reichstag burned in 1933, it was all the Nazis needed to gut civil liberties.

So, before Trump can fire the prosecutor who is hot on the corruption trail of those in the president’s inner circle, he needs a pretext. He could just work his way down the line at the Justice Department, until he found a quisling willing to remove the special counsel. But before he gets to that, he has to delegitimize the whole investigation.

Thus, he’s now attacking the F.B.I., saying the agency is in “Tatters” and its standing “the worst in History.” Bashing cops — wasn’t that what those Black Lives Matter people did to disrespect Blue Lives?

Thank God we have Sarah Huckabee Sanders as a moral clarion in a crisis. “When you’re attacking F.B.I. agents because you’re under criminal investigation, you’re losing,” she tweeted. Sorry — that was Sarah Huckabee Sanders of a year ago, before she was paid to defend the liar in chief.

Trump’s lawyer, John Dowd, has been busy clearing out more brush, making the preposterous claim that the president cannot obstruct justice because he’s the nation’s chief law enforcement officer. If Trump shot somebody on Fifth Avenue — his own suggested redline — he could, as the nation’s chief law enforcement officer, tell the cops to quash the investigation.

See, when the president does it, it’s not a crime. This defense was floated during the two impeachment episodes of the 20th century. The third time will not be a charm. But Trump’s team already has gone from there is no collusion or obstruction to, so what? If it happened, it’s no biggie.

They don’t appear to be the least bit troubled by a stunning report from a whistle-blower. As Trump was pledging to put America first during his Inaugural Address, his national security adviser, Michael Flynn, was texting a former business associate serving foreign clients. With Trump in, the sanctions against Russia would be “ripped up,” clearing the way for big money to be made on the inside, according to the report made public Wednesday.

Ignoring that story, Trump’s media wing is doing its job. Sean Hannity, at state-run television, went on a vein-popping rant Tuesday against law enforcement, complete with conspiracy charts. He called the federal authorities “a team of so-called investigators.” As for their boss, he said that “Mueller is frankly a disgrace to the American justice system and has put the country on the brink of becoming a banana republic.” He’s certainly learned the art of projection from his master.

The Wall Street Journal, channeling its owner and Trump whisperer Rupert Murdoch, has been making much of the same case, albeit without the spittle.

Don’t forget, this is the same Robert Mueller who won wide bipartisan praise when he was appointed special counsel: a career prosecutor, the longest-serving director of the F.B.I. since J. Edgar Hoover, awarded the Bronze Star for his service as a Marine in Vietnam. Republicans love him. Or they did until he started closing in on Trump’s closest associates.

Mueller should be fired, the Russian enablers now claim, because one of his agents said some bad things about Trump. This agent, Peter Strzok, was reassigned over the summer, as soon as his comments came to light. Wow, a G-man has opinions. The cops I know, a couple of longstanding friends, have more opinions than I.

The facts are what matters. And the facts are pointing in a very bad direction for the gang that can’t collude straight. Trump has got to be sweating it; he was said to be “seething” when two of his campaign aides were indicted and third pleaded guilty in October. He looked punch-drunk at recent public events.

Now that he’s a felon from a guilty plea last week, Flynn is cooperating with Mueller. He knows plenty. Trump could pardon him and try to bring him back into the fold. The outrage would be minimal among the Banana Republicans. Sure, they got their tax-relief-for-the-rich bill passed, so they may no longer need Trump after he signs it. But now they’re dreaming of more — cutting Medicare and health care for children, so they have a reason to keep him around.

If Trump fires Mueller, he can start the new year clean. His base will stick with him. Though voters believe, by a nearly 2-1 margin, that Russians interfered with the United States election, Republicans do not. Party before country — in the face of a dangerous turn toward authoritarianism, that’s all that matters.
revelette1
 
  6  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 08:09 am
@hightor,
This piece is almost too depressing to be believed it will happen, however, I have learned this last year; things too depressing to happen, happen. Republicans in congress and his base might go along with a Mueller firing, but I truly do think there will be a hue and a cry if they step over that line from the rest of us.
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Blickers
 
  3  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 09:02 am
@revelette1,
Quote revellette:
Quote:
Republicans in congress and his base might go along with a Mueller firing...

Possibly, but I think the ship might have already sailed on that option. Trump has clearly been desirous of firing Mueller for a long time, but has backed off doing it because it might commence impeachment proceedings. Yes, even from this group of Republicans. Now with the new revelations coming out from Flynn and elsewhere, the chances of impeachment are even greater.

I do think the Egan's column shows that Trump is trying to fight back against the hailstorm of facts, but until he gains some more support he still fears impeachment will be the result.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 09:07 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

maporsche wrote:

I think he’s talking about those in WV and Appalachia. Coal towns, etc.


I am struck by the contemptuous tone. It sounds exactly to me like the insidious 'ghetto welfare mom' memes that have been used by Southern strategist rightwingers for decades.


I'll admit to being a bit brash, but the facts of the matter are plain: there is a large population of Americans in the Appalachian region who are not only apparently unable to cope with the changes of the last 30-40 years, they are unwilling to take any action to better themselves or their region at all.

And, to counter your example above, these are not people who are especially historically oppressed; they are not subject to rampant discrimination and abuse by their local and federal government. They simply grew ever-more reliant on professions that paid relatively high amounts of money with very little education needed. The fact that these professions (mostly coal mining and tobacco farming) are directly harmful to the person engaging in them, as well as our entire species, didn't matter to them at all as long as they were bringing home money.

I am angry at them, not for their predicament, but for their unwillingness to do anything about it - and for their constant attacks on the only groups trying to help them in any way. How else an I supposed to feel about the issue? They all know what the problems are and the solutions, but there is a marked unwillingness to engage in those solutions for social reasons.

Oliver mentioned earlier that we didn't have to put these people out of work, we could keep the mines open for several more decades, and that would have helped them. This is foolishness on several levels:

First, coal is incredibly damaging to the environment and as a species we need to stop burning it as soon as possible - no matter the individual human cost. It's truly toxic **** that not only destroys the land it's mined from, it releases tons of terrible emissions during transport and burning and it releases a huge amount of radioactive material into the atmosphere. Coal fly ash is more radioactive than nuclear waste. I am not in any way persuaded by the short-term plight of the coal mining communities that we should keep using this toxic substance simply as an employment plan for them.

Second, extending this out a decade or two simply pushes the problem forward without solving it. It's the same as punting the problem to our kids. What's to stop the people of the region from making the same argument a decade frok now, or two?

Third and most importantly, it wasn't really Obama or any regulations that put coal miners out of business. It's Fracking. Coal is not competitive as a fuel source compared to cheap natural gas and the rise of fracking has badly hurt the coal industry. So if you're going to blame anyone for this problem, it's the free market.

I don't believe these people are inherently bad or stupid, but they certainly don't seem to have any inclination to fix the problem or vote for anyone who has a plan to move forward. How should one feel about this? Happy? When I hear people from that region constantly trash those who have done things to help them, and praise a con-man and charlatan like Trump; what feelings should one have about that and those people?

This is a serious question. Are we not allowed to disdain those who engage in behavior and actions we profoundly agree with? Should we constantly kow-tow to people and excuse them in an attempt to, I don't know, buy their votes or something? Are people not in fact responsible for doing whatever it takes to better their situation? Should I be happy or content with their situation, and happy to continue paying welfare and disability to millions who have chosen that rather than take action to do better their lives?

Cycloptichorn
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maporsche
 
  3  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 09:40 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

I don't believe these people are inherently bad or stupid, but they certainly don't seem to have any inclination to fix the problem or vote for anyone who has a plan to move forward. How should one feel about this? Happy? When I hear people from that region constantly trash those who have done things to help them, and praise a con-man and charlatan like Trump; what feelings should one have about that and those people?


You make them sound inherently bad. I believe that you may not think this, but your rhetoric is not making that point. Tone it down.

Also, they voted for someone who said that had a plan to move forward. They consistently vote for those people.

I hope one day they realize that they're being lied to, but as you know politicians are really good at lying to people and promising things that they know will never happen. Especially these populist types who talk about burning down the system and replacing it with Nirvana. Millions of people outside of Appalachia are fooled too.

Quote:
This is a serious question. Are we not allowed to disdain those who engage in behavior and actions we profoundly agree with? Should we constantly kow-tow to people and excuse them in an attempt to, I don't know, buy their votes or something? Are people not in fact responsible for doing whatever it takes to better their situation? Should I be happy or content with their situation, and happy to continue paying welfare and disability to millions who have chosen that rather than take action to do better their lives?


Disdain? No, that's way too much. You don't show contempt to these people, at least not if you want to ultimately help them. Humans don't typically respond well to contempt being heaped upon them, especially by dudes from California.

You try to understand them Cyclops. I hiked the Appalachian trail in 2013 and for 6.5 months I walked along side hundreds of people in the area and they invited me into their homes and fed me and cared about me. These are generally good people. People who do try to better their lives and the lives of those around them.

You're talking about welfare fraud and disability fraud as if it's some huge epidemic....it's not. It never has been and the cost that you pay for the whole welfare program is pennies per month. You're not to fix the fraud without destroying the system entirely or paying 3x more to police the fraud than just accepting it.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 09:44 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Are we not allowed to disdain those who engage in behavior and actions we profoundly agree (sic) with? 

You are allowed to disdain whoever, but if you want to win elections, you could do worse than keep that disdain to yourself.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 09:56 am
@Olivier5,
I am not personally responsible for winning elections and no election is being swayed by my comments on a message board. This frees me to speak my mind about the situation, and I'm doing so.

I'll repeat what I said earlier: nobody else other than the Dem party seems to have any plan at all for how to change things for the better in that region, and those plans are constantly rejected by a populace who hates them for tribal reasons.

Cycloptichorn

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hightor
 
  4  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 10:05 am
@layman,
layman wrote:
hightor wrote:



If there’s any outrage left in the tank, use it now...


Hey Chief, can you be a bit more precise with your quotations? The words were Timothy Egan's, not mine.
layman
 
  -4  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 10:07 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Hey Chief, can you be a bit more precise with your quotations? The words were Timothy Egan's, not mine.


Exactly, you quoted him.

You bought it and now own it, eh?
hightor
 
  4  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 10:08 am
@layman,
Okay, fine. But I think it's confusing and not strictly accurate.
layman
 
  -4  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 10:14 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Okay, fine. But I think it's confusing and not strictly accurate.


First this posted twice, then it disappeared, so I'll repeat it:

Yeah, it may well be confusing to those who are slow-witted and easily confused. That would include the vast majority of cheese-eaters, so I understand your concern.
hightor
 
  4  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 10:18 am
@layman,
No need to be insulting.

See, the box says "hightor wrote:"

But I didn't "write" anything and I believe the actual author deserves credit, not someone who simply copies and pastes his words.
layman
 
  -3  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 10:20 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

No need to be insulting.


Insults are never "necessary." They come gratis, eh? Pro bono, ya might say.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 8 Dec, 2017 10:21 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Sure sure sure... Just saying, if dems want to win elections, they'll have to become better listeners than you are.
 

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