192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 08:06 am
@hightor,
They don't have to be unbiased. Blatham and co say I get my 'talking points' from right wing sources.

I have my own concerns and opinions which are mirrored frequently in progressive sites.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 08:51 am
So, the maitre d of this avoidant thread and his yapping dogs should stop propping up neoliberalism and help less fortunates while you still can.

Read progressive!

An oldie but a goodie.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/09/rise-of-the-davos-class-sealed-americas-fate

Read it!

They will blame voter suppression and racism. They will blame Bernie or bust and misogyny. They will blame third parties and independent candidates. They will blame the corporate media for giving him the platform, social media for being a bullhorn, and WikiLeaks for airing the laundry.

But this leaves out the force most responsible for creating the nightmare in which we now find ourselves wide awake: neoliberalism. That worldview – fully embodied by Hillary Clinton and her machine – is no match for Trump-style extremism. The decision to run one against the other is what sealed our fate. If we learn nothing else, can we please learn from that mistake?
hightor
 
  4  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 09:39 am
@Lash,
Instead of blaming a well-worn political philosophy which was formed specifically to address the problem of Democrats losing elections in the '80s, you could alternatively ascribe the current crisis of liberal democracies around the world to changing economic conditions brought about by structural weakness of the capitalist system. It's simplistic to blame brexit on Hillary Clinton or right wing gains in Germany and Eastern Europe on Bill Clinton. Times change. Mouthing feel good nostrums from the political past isn't any more "progressive" than neo-liberalism. I think the radical left just wants to blame individual people, which makes it seem a little less impotent. Typical scapegoating at work.
hightor
 
  5  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 09:47 am
I'd been wondering what happened to the little prince...

Jared Kushner’s Vast Duties, and Visibility in White House, Shrink

NYT
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -3  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 09:49 am
@hightor,
Taking something complicated, and refashioning it into a misleading, self-congratulatory sound bite must be your favorite hobby. You’ve certainly practiced diligently here.

The Clintons’ specific contributions to people-crushing neoliberalism are documented at length in these pages. Pretend otherwise if you need to, but I won’t play along.

hightor
 
  3  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 10:12 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Taking something complicated, and refashioning it into a misleading, self-congratulatory sound bite must be your favorite hobby.

I think blaming the ills of the world on two individual people is much more misleading.
Quote:
The Clintons’ specific contributions to people-crushing neoliberalism are documented at length in these pages.

I've seen lots of opinions about neoliberalism and Team Clinton but little in the way of conclusive documentary evidence. The fact is that a particular kind of centrism was popular for two decades or so but the real world has moved on, as it often does, outpacing the world of ideology.

blatham
 
  3  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 10:46 am
@hightor,
Quote:
The Clintons’ specific contributions to people-crushing neoliberalism are documented at length in these pages.
Let's take a look at this term, where the related economic ideology arose, and who really represents the thing in US politics.
Quote:
In the 1960s usage of the term "neoliberal" heavily declined. When the term re-appeared in the 1980s in connection with Augusto Pinochet's economic reforms in Chile, the usage of the term had shifted. It had not only become a term with negative connotations employed principally by critics of market reform, but it also had shifted in meaning from a moderate form of liberalism to a more radical and laissez-faire capitalist set of ideas. Scholars now tended to associate it with the theories of economists Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman and James M. Buchanan, along with politicians and policy-makers such as Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan
Wikipedia. It's also instructive to read their page on "Chicago Boys" to get more info on where these radical economic ideas arose and, critically, which party pushed them and which party is now pushing them.
Lash
 
  -2  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 10:54 am
@blatham,
“Let’s take a look at this term...”

Yes. Let’s.

http://www.truth-out.org/speakout/item/36289-neoliberalism-can-the-middle-class-endure-another-clinton

Excerpt:

The idea of neoliberalism implies a consensus across the political spectrum about markets, about the role of the financial industry, labor unions, public services and also about the role of average people. According to historian and political analyst Thomas Frank, the consummate figure in its development -- the one that brought all the different strands together -- was achieved by President Bill Clinton. "He got things done that Republicans never dreamed of getting done," Frank told radio host Christopher Lydon, citing the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) as a prime example.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:03 am
@Lash,
I'm still not used to the American meaning of the term neoliberalism.

(For me, neoliberalism is the name of a broad and heterogeneous theoretical movement which includes the Freiburg School (ordoliberalism) and the Chicago School, but also representatives of the Austrian School such as Friedrich August von Hayek, ....)
hightor
 
  2  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:17 am
Neoliberalism: the idea that swallowed the world
Quote:
Neoliberalism is an old term, dating back to the 1930s, but it has been revived as a way of describing our current politics – or more precisely, the range of thought allowed by our politics. In the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis, it was a way of assigning responsibility for the debacle, not to a political party per se, but to an establishment that had conceded its authority to the market. For the Democrats in the US and Labour in the UK, this concession was depicted as a grotesque betrayal of principle. Bill Clinton and Tony Blair, it was said, had abandoned the left’s traditional commitments, especially to workers, in favour of a global financial elite and the self-serving policies that enriched them; and in doing so, had enabled a sickening rise in inequality.
(...)
No sooner had neoliberalism been certified as real, and no sooner had it made clear the universal hypocrisy of the market, than the populists and authoritarians came to power. In the US, Hillary Clinton, the neoliberal arch-villain, lost – and to a man who knew just enough to pretend he hated free trade. (...) Against the forces of global integration, national identity is being reasserted, and in the crudest possible terms. What could the militant parochialism of Brexit Britain and Trumpist America have to do with neoliberal rationality? What possible connection is there between the president – a freewheeling boob – and the bloodless paragon of efficiency known as the free market?
(...)
Moving the stale debate about neoliberalism forward begins, I think, with taking seriously the measure of its cumulative effect on all of us, regardless of affiliation. And this requires returning to its origins, which have nothing to do with Bill or Hillary Clinton. There once was a group of people who did call themselves neoliberals, and did so proudly, and their ambition was a total revolution in thought. The most prominent among them, Friedrich Hayek, did not think he was staking out a position on the political spectrum, or making excuses for the fatuous rich, or tinkering along the edges of microeconomics.
(...)
What any person acquainted with history sees as the necessary bulwarks against tyranny and exploitation – a thriving middle class and civil sphere; free institutions; universal suffrage; freedom of conscience, congregation, religion and press; a basic recognition that the individual is a bearer of dignity – held no special place in Hayek’s thought. Hayek built into neoliberalism the assumption that the market provides all necessary protection against the one real political danger: totalitarianism. To prevent this, the state need only keep the market free.
(...)
Thirty years on, and it can fairly be said that Hayek’s victory is unrivalled. We live in a paradise built by his Big Idea. The more closely the world can be made to resemble an ideal market governed only by perfect competition, the more law-like and “scientific” human behaviour, in the aggregate, becomes. Every day we ourselves – no one has to tell us to anymore! – strive to become more perfectly like scattered, discrete, anonymous buyers and sellers; and every day we treat the residual desire to be something more than a consumer as nostalgia, or elitism.

The Guardian
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Maybe this can bridge to your more rigid understanding.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot
blatham
 
  4  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:21 am
@Lash,
This I'll speak to.

You have offered up Thomas Frank's opinion on the role of Bill Clinton in establishing the economic regime which is now in place. I like Frank and I think he gets a lot right but if the subject is economics, I'll grant much authority to Krugman and Steiglitz and Jeffrey Sachs.

Once again, Lash, you've totally avoided which American political party/ideology most clearly and consistently represents the exact thing you bemoan. You ignore which party - right now - is pushing with all the resources it can muster to make economic policies even further to the right and even further away from the needs of the bulk of citizens.

You run away from any substantive address to the asymmetry here in which party is much, much more to blame for the rise and maintenance and furtherance of "neoliberal" ideas and, critically, which party is far more dangerous to progressive goals.

This behavior is so consistent with you that many of us doubt your sincerity and presume that you are functioning as a right wing troll here.

Edit: I failed to add another key problem with your failures to be honest as noted above.

Why on earth would you continue, more than a year after the election, to attack a lady who has no political position or power and very little influence in the modern political world while making no such attacks on the GOP. Obsession does not explain what you do.
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I suspect there's a little propagandist trick in there. You likely will have seen the many instances where the name National Socialist German Workers' Party has been used to paint Nazism as a socialist and leftist phenomenon. You have to be very uneducated to fall for this one but many do (as I discovered when active in discussions at NRO).

Because "neoliberalism" contains the word "liberal", it can be a fairly simple thing to then imply that neoliberalism (where it means radical right wing economic and social ideas) is a leftist phenomenon.
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:34 am
@blatham,
Right wing trolls: Thomas Frank, Bernie Sanders, Robert Reich, Noam Chomsky.

Yeah. Uh huh.

You should check yourself and get re-acquainted with progressive political thought in the US.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:43 am
@Lash,
I've met Monbiot and talked with him a couple of years ago when he still was a member of Respect.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:46 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Because "neoliberalism" contains the word "liberal", it can be a fairly simple thing to then imply that neoliberalism (where it means radical right wing economic and social ideas) is a leftist phenomenon.


people are lazy, so it's easy to convince them that neoliberalism must mean 'fancy kind of liberal'

___


while I'm here, gonna drop this Quirks & Quarks link off (and the graphic from the transcript) - good podcast again

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/conspiracy-theories-human-rat-starter-brains-the-catastrophic-extinction-of-passenger-pigeons-and-more-1.4406927/why-conspiracy-theorists-are-more-likely-to-see-patterns-in-a-painting-like-this-1.4406959

the graphic ties in to the 'easy to fool them' story


https://i.cbc.ca/1.4407952.1510953736!/fileImage/httpImage/image.png_gen/derivatives/original_620/conspiracy-theory-graphic.png
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Too bad he didn’t explain it to you.
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:50 am
Quote:
Gordon Lafer’s The One Percent Solution is a worthy companion to Democracy in Chains. Lafer does not write about Buchanan and the Virginia School, but he meticulously demonstrates how the Koch brothers and the Supreme Court’s Citizens United decision of 2010 have influenced elections and public policy in the states. He opens his book with a revealing anecdote about Bill Haslam, the Republican governor of Tennessee. In 2015 Haslam wanted to expand his state’s Medicaid program to include some 200,000 low-income residents who had no health insurance under the Affordable Care Act. He had just been reelected with 70 percent of the vote. Republicans, who controlled both branches of the state legislature, approved of Haslam’s plan. The public liked the idea. But then the Koch brothers’ advocacy group Americans for Prosperity sent field organizers into the state to fight the expansion, ran television ads against it, and denounced it as “a vote for Obamacare.” The Medicaid expansion proposal was defeated by the legislature.

Lafer reviews bills passed in the fifty state legislatures since the Citizens United decision removed limits on corporate spending in political campaigns. He identifies corporate influences on state-level decision-making and finds that those same policies provided a template for corporate lobbying in Congress. His most striking discovery is the “sheer similarity of the legislation—nearly identical bills introduced in cookie- cutter fashion in states across the country.” What Lafer documents is a coherent strategic agenda on the part of such business lobbies as the National Association of Manufacturers and the National Federation of Independent Business to reshape the nation’s economy, society, and politics—state by state.
NYRB
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:50 am
@ehBeth,
You think Chomsky’s confused?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 26 Nov, 2017 11:54 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Too bad he didn’t explain it to you.
Obviously you weren't there.
 

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