192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 01:57 pm
The Sleazy Case Against Mueller’s Probe
NYT
maporsche
 
  3  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 02:51 pm
@hightor,
Weekend debates....this is how democracy DIES!!
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 02:55 pm
Page must be taking Mueller seriously as he answered under oath truthfully rather than the jive he has been giving to the media. Perhaps seeing how easy it is trip someone up (Sessions) convinced him (Page) to answer truthfully.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 02:55 pm
@hightor,
That's a good piece. Very concise. As to the writer...
Quote:
Mr. Stephens came to The Times after a long career with The Wall Street Journal, where he was most recently deputy editorial-page editor and, for 11 years, foreign affairs columnist. Before that, he was editor in chief of The Jerusalem Post.
NYT
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 02:57 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
. . . to say the vote was "rigged" suggests that the results were somehow manipulated. I haven't seen any evidence that backs this up. Many Democratic voters were unhappy with the choices they had, but held their noses and voted for Clinton, not really believing that a 75 year old professed "socialist" could win in the general election.


I agree with this, and would add that Sanders was never a Democrat, and is not one now. He only became a Democrat in order to run for the presidency.

The other odious theme presently being peddled is that Clinton wanted to run against Plump, and engineered his nomination--which is typical of conspiracy theories, in that it even a cursory analysis of the claim dismisses it as improbable. Clinton had no such power. What makes this bizarre is that it is the right which is peddling this. I suspect that this comes from a desperate need to smear Clinton--perhaps they think that she could beat Plump in a repeat of the contest.

Which is, in the context of this thread, an interesting window into the soul of right-wingers--maybe they're in the throes of a terrible buyer's remorse, which they cannot candidly admit.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 03:07 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
I agree with this, and would add that Sanders was never a Democrat, and is not one now. He only became a Democrat in order to run for the presidency.


Very true and factual.

Do you think WikiLeaks is also sharing facts?

hightor
 
  5  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 03:40 pm
@reasoning logic,
So "the DNC was basically an arm of the Clinton campaign." Is that all there is to it? I don't understand why this is so shocking — she'd been doing the groundwork for the past eight years! Why would anyone expect the central committees of political parties to operate above board, in plain sight? When did they ever work that way?
roger
 
  5  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 04:46 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

And speaking of visits to China... anyone else a bit terrified of what Trump might say or do on his visit there?


You made me shudder. Thanks a lot.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 05:37 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Why would anyone expect the central committees of political parties to operate above board, in plain sight? When did they ever work that way?


Why even bother with the primaries?

The less-than-half of the population who still think they have some form of democratic process in place in their nation, were duly disgusted to find that "their" DNC was a fraud, just like the election process itself, but I'm not surprised that this information went straight over your head, also,
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 07:10 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Why would anyone expect the central committees of political parties to operate above board, in plain sight? When did they ever work that way?


You and I may understand this truth but do you think the majority of voters are aware of this fact?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 07:31 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

So "the DNC was basically an arm of the Clinton campaign." Is that all there is to it? I don't understand why this is so shocking — she'd been doing the groundwork for the past eight years! Why would anyone expect the central committees of political parties to operate above board, in plain sight? When did they ever work that way?


Most people don't appreciate the significant changes that have occurred in the nominating process for presidential candidate over the last three decades. Before 1980 the process chiefly involved State and National conventions within the local and national party organizations, and the focus was clearly on the strategies for the respective Parties for winning the election. The transition to statewide Primary elections, weakened the party organizations and added enormously to the cost of campaigns ( and the corruption that usually attends it).

That said the Party National Committees remain focused on the political establishments of the parties and their respective strategies. As we saw in 2016, there were serious gaps between the focus of both national party organizations and their traditional electorates. As a result outsiders played stronger than expected roles in both. Trump exposed the half-hearted contradictions of the Republican establishment and took the Primaries by storm in a highly populist (and democratic) proves. Eight years of Obama - with the Clintons waiting in the wings - had bred a high degree of complacency among Democrats and they had to look to an outsider, the self-proclaimed Socialist Bernie Sanders, for what they hoped would be a quiet non threatening pro forma opposition in the Primaries. The result was almost as surprising to them as was that of Trump to the Republicans.

There was turbulence and surprise in both primary contest. However I believe there was far more duplicity and corruption in the Democrat contest, and that appears to be the issue now.

Democrats appear to be leaderless, clinging officially to leaders of the Past (Pelosi & Schumer), while the DNC itself is in the hands of the far left radicals. I suspect Donna Brazile's rather late "revelations" in her book were an effort to disengage herself from the past and perhaps align herself with what she may see as newer forces in the party.
Setanta
 
  4  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 07:47 pm
A note of historical accuracy: The first primary election was in 1901, in Florida, and by 1916, 26 states (more than half) were holding primary elections. In 1920, New Hampshire was the first state to hold a primary election for presidential candidates. It wasn't anything new in 1980.

In fact, the DNC began in 2008 to attempt to curb the influence of the early primary and caucus states, holding primaries earlier, and moving up the dates in southern and western states which had previously had later primaries--usually when the front runner (and sometimes runners) had been chosen. Super Tuesday has been another move by the two big parties to both spread the nominating influence around, and to provide a test of any particular candidate's national appeal.

The influence of any one individual or group in a party is not a function of primary elections, or the debates which have now become traditional in the primary season. Primary elections are a tool, but certainly don't determine the leadership of either party.
Setanta
 
  4  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 07:50 pm
Of course, the right-wingers are continuing their attempt to divert attention from President Plump, who is the subject of this thread.
Builder
 
  0  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 07:56 pm
@Setanta,
So share the latest about your pet hate.

Or is calling him plump all you've got, Set?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 08:04 pm
@Builder,
Quote:
Why even bother with the primaries?

They provide an illusion of popular choice which is politically useful.
Quote:
The less-than-half of the population who still think they have some form of democratic process in place in their nation (...)

Probably a lot less than that.
Builder
 
  -4  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 08:04 pm
I wonder why resident UK analyst, Hissy isn't reporting on this breaking news about corruption in Saudi Arabia, linked to the Clintons.
Quote:

A new Saudi anti-corruption body has detained 11 princes, four sitting ministers and dozens of former ministers, media reports say.

The detentions came hours after the new committee, headed by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, was formed by royal decree.

Those detained were not named.

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner says Prince Mohammed is moving to consolidate his growing power while spearheading a reform programme.

It is not clear what those detained are suspected of. However, Saudi broadcaster Al-Arabiya said fresh investigations had been launched into the 2009 Jeddah floods and the outbreak of the Mers virus which emerged in Saudi Arabia in 2012.

The new anti-corruption committee has the power to issue arrest warrants and travel bans, the state-owned Saudi Press Agency (SPA) reported.


Builder
 
  -3  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 08:09 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Probably a lot less than that.


Some have moved on, but some, like those here, are still struggling with reality.


Quote:
Just over a year ago, the political left in the US watched in shock as what seemed unimaginable happened - Donald Trump won the presidency. Since then, they've mourned, they've marched, and they've moved on. Sort of.


source
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  5  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 08:21 pm
@Builder,
Not to worry, Builder. Saudi Arabia's got lots more princes where those came from.
Builder
 
  -2  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 08:25 pm
@roger,
It's the tip of the iceberg, my friend.

Drain that swamp.
farmerman
 
  6  
Sat 4 Nov, 2017 08:32 pm
@Builder,
sounds like Plump is replcing the ""swamp" with levees to hold even more cronies
 

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