monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

This is an inaccurate statement, and that's being kind.

Granted, but not more innacurate than your dismissive and simplistic take on China's development.

Quote:

it would be a lie to emulate Trump and promise them something that will never happen.

Nobody ever said that the Dems should lie just like Trump. But one should express empathy and give hope. Not say things like: "for every blue collar we lose, we will win two moderate republicans". That was so contemptuous and downright treason for the blue collars.

Tell me, was it a lie to say "Yes we can", or was it providing an uplifting message of hope? A little bit of both, no? We all knew it was a half-lie, that not everything Obama promissed would be feasible. And yet many people in good faith decided to believe it, not only in the States -- I can guarantee you that. And yes, we were right to hope against reason, because with all his inadequacies Obama was an inspiring figure and president.

Pure econometrics don't win hearts. Humans are not computers.

1 Reply

@BillW,

BillW wrote:

Put your thumb back up your butt!

Now that's not very nice. A few days without a toad?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

But one should express empathy and give hope.

So, you're saying, we should have a candidate who comes up with an extremely detailed plan to re-train those who are out of work due to their industries declining in America? And who pledges to fight for significant funding to help support individuals and companies relocating to impoverished areas of the country, to help revitalize them?

Quote:

Tell me, was it a lie to say "Yes we can", or was it providing an uplifting message of hope? A little bit of both, no?

Oh, it's never a lie to have Hope or promote it. I will say that it's a lie to say that the Dem's last candidate didn't do that - because she quite obviously did. You seem to have missed that part somehow

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Nonsense

You're a smart guy. Stop thinking that the Left operates on your ideals.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Assumptions? I asked you if you were a CPA and you replied you were an accountant. If you are a Super Accountant, you should tell us.

The rest of it...Thanks...I think

I am an accountant by trade, but like many others I now spend more time overseeing the work of people and developing new programs and capabilities for my organization than actually doing accounting work myself.

The rest was intended as a compliment and a sincere request for you to not give up on developing in-depth argumentation here at A2K

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Oh please. The only hope Clinton offered was something less bad than Trump.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Such as, everybody gets free college and healthcare? Bernie lies..........

I'm not drawing lines, but politicing is a job where the masses have to decide!

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Oh please. The only hope Clinton offered was something less bad than Trump.

I mean, it's hard to take such cavalier statements seriously.

If you were an out-of-work coal miner, you don't think Clinton offered you any hope at all for the future?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@BillW,

The public option is not a lie. It works the world over.

3 Replies

@Olivier5,

Not! I live in reality, I'm a centrist...

1 Reply

@BillW,

BillW wrote:

Such as, everybody gets free college and healthcare? Bernie lies..........

Bernie was usually careful to avoid the word 'free.' So I don't necessarily knock him for those. His plan to use a transaction tax on Wall Street to pay for college was ridiculous and anyone who spent any time thinking about it knew it, but it wasn't typically presented as 'free.'

That transaction tax is a great idea, BTW, but linking it to College education wasn't. I'd support a penny transaction tax on trades all day long and FOUR times on Sunday, because it would help return a sense of normalcy to our insane stock market.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Breivity is the essence of wit, but also of wisdom. It's important to not get lost in details. Trump offered more hope to coal miners than Clinton.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

The public option is not a lie. It works the world over.

That's funny, in 2008 that was one of the major planks of... Hillary Clinton's health-care plan. But no, she didn't offer hope to anyone and is only slightly better than Trump, nope

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Breivity is the essence of wit, but also of wisdom. It's important to not get lost in details. Trump offered more hope to coal miners than Clinton.

Nope, he merely lied to them. You understand that, right? He shamelessly and repeatedly lied to them. Anyone who actually looked into ANY of the details presented by the two candidates would instantly see that one of them had an actual plan, and the other didn't. But Trump told them what they wanted to hear, and they ate it right up.

You're essentially arguing that the Dems should tell people what they want to hear, irrespective of reality. I can't get behind that.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@BillW,

Yes it does. It's just a publicly run mandatory insurance scheme.

I lived in the US for ten years. I know for a fact that you pay for your medecines through the nose. Any medecine costs about 5 times less in France than in the US. A public option would allow you to break that through collective bargaining power.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Well written and I agree, but still Political spin (note, tRump would lie, doen't know how to spin). I don't dislike Bernie, but I not a socialist. Hillary proposed a stepped plan, which is reality. Just like healthcare, a stepped plan.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

BillW wrote:

Such as, everybody gets free college and healthcare? Bernie lies..........

Bernie was usually careful to avoid the word 'free.' So I don't necessarily knock him for those. His plan to use a transaction tax on Wall Street to pay for college was ridiculous and anyone who spent any time thinking about it knew it, but it wasn't typically presented as 'free.'

That transaction tax is a great idea, BTW, but linking it to College education wasn't. I'd support a penny transaction tax on trades all day long and FOUR times on Sunday, because it would help return a sense of normalcy to our insane stock market.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Trump offered them hope through what he might have believed to be true at the time, but proved untrue now. Clinton said the blunt cold truth but was perceived as insensitive and flipant.

There's a reason why Clinton lost to an unknow, unproven black politician called "Barak" in 2008, and to a toxic pussy-grabbing clown in 2016. You still haven't found it, that's all.

Clue: you won't find it by burrying your head in the sand, or macro-economics.

0 Replies

@BillW,

BTW, I think we would be better served if the moderate/centrist middle pulled out of both parties, combining into a new, more powerful, winning party! I could care less what the two, destructive extreme arms of each party does. The new party could easily, by itself, be 50% of the population?

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

The public option is not a lie. It works the world over.

That's funny, in 2008 that was one of the major planks of... Hillary Clinton's health-care plan. But no, she didn't offer hope to anyone and is only slightly better than Trump, nope

Cycloptichorn

Well, if she did that in 2008, good for her. That's a winner!

(and it won't cost millions of jobs -- that's lunacy)

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

I can say with confidence that you don't understand the medical billing and insurance industry in America if you don't think it would lead to massive job losses.

Quote:

Trump offered them hope through what he might have believed to be true at the time, but proved untrue now.

Literally nothing has changed between then and now to prove anything untrue. It was ALWAYS untrue. Conservative and Liberal pundits were united in saying this during the 2016 election. And I'm sorry to say it, but only a fool would believe that Trump says things based on what he 'believes' is true. The man knows he's lying while he's doing it.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

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