192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  5  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 04:32 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
I would just observe that almost all of the lies of this administration are stupid. Transparently false, and ill-considered. A lot of them cause more problems for Plump and company than the annoyances they think to bury.

No argument from me on this. I think there's another thing going on here that is important because the conservative base has fallen for a meta-message that is a feature of modern conservatism but taken to extremes with Trump.

That is, the direct attack on objectively discernible reality and it's replacement with the notion that no one is to be trusted to determine what is real or even to have a worthy opinion of what is moral - if they are not "conservative" (in the mode deemed currently proper). It is also an attack on honesty - it's OK to lie if the liar is considered to be on the "conservative" team.
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 04:39 pm
@blatham,
This sounds exactly like Hypernormalisation, which is a very, very dangerous place for our society to be entering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fny99f8amM

I think there's no coincidence that Russia is engaging itself heavily with the right-wing in America, seeing as they have been so successful in doing so back home - to the great profit of the Kakistocracy there.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  5  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 04:46 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
He sits in the office. He has the title. You can say he's mine till you're blue. I'll never call him my president. And hopefully before too long, he won't be anybody's.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 04:46 pm
@blatham,
They are definitely living in some kind of fantasy land. It is reminiscent of children, especially adolescents, who believe, although not consciously, that if you say a thing often enough, if you wish hard enough--it will be true.
snood
 
  4  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 04:47 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I said it was nice.

It's still a Lefty Chat Room

Yet here you are.
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 04:58 pm
@Setanta,
More like, 'convince everyone that nothing is really true.' That way, pretty much anything is acceptable. You can see how nicely this dovetails with Nationalism and Tribalism, and who pushes those concepts in our society?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  3  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 05:26 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn, I hate to say this; but it looks like I'm about to go back on my word. In my most recent PM to you, I had said I would not post in political threads anymore. But, sure enough, instead of exercising good judgment, I've continued to read posts in this and other political topics. I know better than to do this from my own past experience -- which has been that if I continue to read posts regarding controversial issues that I care deeply about, I will likely come across a comment that particularly irks me. When I have actually stopped reading such posts, I won't post anymore. I will be exercising good judgment for a change.

I object not to something you've said. I object to a comment Shapiro made in the linked NR article. It's a matter of history, not current politics. As I've said before, I'm not a member of either party. I would have to violate my conscience to support either one. So, to use a tired cliche, I have no dog in this fight.

I hope you won't take this personally.

National Review's Ben Shapiro wrote:
The Left . . . labeled conservatives bigots in the 1960s, even as the Democratic party provided the base of support for segregation.


This intellectually dishonest comment is particularly galling.

First of all, during the 1950s and the 1960s, most leading conservatives were no friends of the civil rights movement. I'm sure if you checked past issues of NR that were featured in that magazine during that period, you would possibly not find even a single article supporting the civil rights movement. Instead, you would find an insincere defense of "states rights" and sympathy for the poor white Southern segregationists who were being "oppressed" by the civil rights movement. By the way, Martin Luther King Jr. was not popular during this time. I'm sure you would find plenty of articles condemning him, not hypocritically praising him as they do today.

I know there were individual white Republicans (such as my beloved late mother-in-law) who opposed racial bigotry even before there was a civil rights movement. But as far as actually participating in the civil rights movement, there hardly seems to be any white conservatives who participated in it. The only two I know of who had any connection with the civil rights movement were Morton Downey Jr. (now deceased) and Robert Dornan. Downey really doesn't count because he was a liberal at the time.

Instead, leading conservatives attacked the civil rights movement. For example, the John Birch Society -- definitely a conservative group -- falsely claimed the MLK was a Communist and denounced the civil rights movement as a plot hatched in Moscow. Phyllis Schlafly publicly expressed sympathy for the Southern segregationists. According to Bob Novak, in the early 1960's leading conservative Republicans turned their backs to black voters and turned to white segregationists for support especially white Southern Democrats; hence, the "Southern strategy."

The fact of the matter is that most leading conservatives during that time were anti-civil rights. For example, during the early 1960s when he called President Kennedy a "Marxist," Ronald Reagan publicly declared that businesses had the right to deny service to or otherwise discrimination against "Negros." He opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, He opposed the Voting Rights Act in 1965, and he opposed its renewal in 1970 and 1975. Am I calling Reagan a racist? No; but from a practical standpoint, he might as well have been one. If I had hated blacks during the 1960's, I would have loved Reagan because he consistently opposed civil rights.

The simple truth of matter is that the Ku Klux Klan and other white supremacist groups have been politically conservative. How do I know this? Because none of those groups have ever supported any liberal position. I've also noticed that any time some "expert" has come forward to "prove" that blacks are inherently inferior -- such as Gen. Edwin Walker, William Shockley, and Charles Murray (who, incidentally, believe that women's brains are smaller than men's -- which, I guess, means they're supposedly inferior to men) -- the "expert" always comes from the political right, not the left. I've also noticed that in the West (as opposed to the Middle East), Holocaust deniers come from the political right.

In the 20th century, the first time black Americans had a friend in the White House was when Harry Truman became President. If Wendell Wilke had defeated FDR in 1944, he would have become the first instead of Truman.


0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 05:36 pm
I'm hoping this isn't as bad as it looks. I've always heard it said that if two or more aircraft carriers start to converge in one location, it's a sign something's about to happen.

Is the United States Planning to Attack North Korea?
Quote:
The aircraft carriers USS Nimitz, USS Theodore Roosevelt, and USS Ronald Reagan—three of the most powerful warships in the world—have now converged on the western Pacific in a mighty show of force on the eve of President Trump’s 10-day trip to Asia. The three carriers, along with their accompanying cruisers, destroyers, and submarines—all armed with Tomahawk cruise missiles or other advanced munitions—are capable of raining immense destructive force on any nation targeted by the commander in chief. Not since 2007 has there been such a concentration of US firepower in the Asia-Pacific region. There can be only two plausible explanations for this extraordinary naval buildup: to provide Trump with the sort of military extravaganza he seems to enjoy; and/or to prepare for a pre-emptive military strike on North Korea.
farmerman
 
  2  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 05:51 pm
@snood,
I hope we have em ringed with nuke subs. The NK Navy has a pretty large conventional sub fleet all seemingly loaded with something aerial.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 06:04 pm
I think, Snood, that the array of carriers near SK is for Trump's entertainment while he is visiting. What is he going to do with his time there otherwise? He will not/can not participate in any meaningful way with other leaders so he will spend his time playing with his toys. He has ten days to kill.
snood
 
  2  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 06:55 pm
@realjohnboy,
Yeah it would fit his MO to use a big expensive gaudy show of US military force just to make himself look and feel important. A waste of time, machinery, personnel and resources. We can only hope that, like a teenager with a new car, he doesn't get the urge to show what his toy can do.
BillW
 
  2  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 10:32 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Yeah it would fit his MO to use a big expensive gaudy show of US military force just to make himself look and feel important. A waste of time, machinery, personnel and resources. We can only hope that, like a teenager with a new car, he doesn't get the urge to show what his toy can do.


He wanted it for his inauguration and then for the 4th of July - yeap, have to agree with you snood!
BillW
 
  2  
Wed 1 Nov, 2017 10:47 pm
@BillW,
Everything is good tonight - 'Stros Win! 'Stros Win! 'Stros win!
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 2 Nov, 2017 02:08 am
@snood,
It would be typical of Trump to start a war that's totally unnecessary, especially now.

Quote:
A high-level defector has told the US Congress that spreading outside information in North Korea is the best way to deal with the regime.
Thae Yong-ho said undermining Kim Jong-un's God-like status among his people could be key to weakening his rule.
North Koreans "don't care about state propaganda but increasingly watch illegally imported South Korean movies and dramas," he added.
Mr Thae was deputy ambassador to the UK before he defected last year.
He is one of the highest-ranking officials ever to defect from North Korea.
Mr Thae's speech before US lawmakers comes as President Trump is due to embark on a trip to Asia, including South Korea.
Tensions between North Korea and the West have risen over the past months as Pyongyang has conducted several missile tests and claimed to have tested a hydrogen bomb.
In his first ever visit to Washington, Mr Thae told Congress: "We can educate (the) North Korean population to stand up by disseminating outside information."
He also urged officials to meet at least once with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, to understand his thinking and convince him that his nuclear programme is risking mass destruction.
"It is necessary to reconsider whether we have tried all non-military options before we decide that military action against North Korea is all that is left," he said.
Changes in North Korea meant that "contrary to the official policy and wish of the regime, the free markets are flourishing", he said.
People were getting more access to outside information, including through micro SD cards which were small enough to be easily smuggled into the country, he added.
Young North Koreans have begun calling said devices "nose cards" because they can be smuggled even inside one's nostrils, he cited as an example.
These developments "make it increasingly possible to think about civilian uprising in North Korea as more and more people gradually become informed about the reality of their living conditions," he argued.
"The US is spending billions of dollars to cope with the military threat and yet how much does the US spend each year on information activities involving North Korea in a year? Unfortunately, it may be a tiny fraction," he said.
The rising tensions between Washington and Pyongyang have seen US President refer to Kim as "little rocket man," while the North Korean leader called Trump a "mentally deranged dotard".
North Korean defectors are one of the few sources of information about life in North Korea - yet critics caution that defector's testimonies might not always be credible, and that some defectors have changed their stories in the past.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41840866
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Thu 2 Nov, 2017 02:23 am
Quote:
Russian operatives, likely working from St Petersburg, provoked angry Americans to take to the streets, a US Senate committee heard on Wednesday.
The May 2016 protest, arranged by a group named Heart of Texas, was one example of Kremlin-backed efforts to destabilise the American electoral process.
Lawyers for three technology companies - Facebook, Twitter and Google - were told they were grossly underestimating the scale of the problem.
"You just don't get it," said California Senator Dianne Feinstein.
"What we’re talking about is a cataclysmic change. What we’re talking about is the beginning of cyber-warfare."
She added: "We are not going to go away, gentlemen. This is a very big deal."
Facebook said earlier this week that as many as 126 million people might have been reached by Russian propaganda efforts, a combination of paid advertisements and so-called "organic" posts that spread naturally as other users share the content.
It added on Wednesday that an additional 16 million users could have been reached via photo-sharing app Instagram, which the company also owns.
It was organic posts that were under the most scrutiny from the Senate Intelligence Committee on Wednesday.
Senator Mark Warner, the committee's deputy chairman, discussed how the Russian-made Heart of Texas group amassed 250,000 followers.
The group then created an event to be held at an Islamic culture centre in Houston. The event was titled "Stop Islamization of Texas".
The protest duly took place, as did a counter-protest. Local media at the time reported that the organisers "could not be found" at the event.
Another example shared on Wednesday showed an account sharing "benign" posts on Christianity later shifting to anti-Hillary Clinton posts after the group had reached a critical mass of users.
Twitter, too, faced criticism for potentially under-reporting the extent of automated bots on its network.
The firm's lawyer Sean Edgett said Twitter's own research suggested that less than 5% of its 330 million users were bots. Senator Warner, however, said independent research suggested the number was perhaps as high as 12-15%.
The companies, speaking individually but agreeing on every issue, said they were "deeply concerned" that they had become the leading platforms for "fake news" on the internet.
"We cannot defeat this evolving shared threat alone," Facebook's top lawyer Colin Stretch said.
However, none of the firms would commit to backing the Honest Ads Act, which would regulate online advertising, focusing on greater transparency around political advertising.
Twitter's Mr Edgett said the companies wanted some "fine-tuning" to the proposals but supported its goals.
Several senators suggested that more hearings and consultation would be needed, expressing their frustration that the companies were not being represented by higher-ranking executives.
"I'm disappointed that you're here, and not your CEOs," said independent senator Angus King.
"If we go through this exercise again we should appreciate seeing the top people."
"I wish your CEOs were here," concurred Democrat senator Joe Manchin.
"They have to answer to this."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41837435
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Thu 2 Nov, 2017 02:41 am
Quote:
Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton spent big on Facebook ads last year ahead of November’s presidential election.

The two candidates and their campaigns spent a combined $81 million on ads, according to Facebook General Counsel Colin Stretch, who unveiled the number during a congressional hearing Wednesday focused on Russia’s attempt to use social platforms to interfere in the election. Facebook made about $28 billion in revenue in 2016, most of it from advertising.

The $81 million number was brought up in comparison to how much money was spent by accounts with Kremlin ties. Facebook claims that Russian-backed accounts spent approximately $100,000 on about 3,000 Facebook ads intended to spread misinformation.



source

Now which part of electioneering isn't "fake news"?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 2 Nov, 2017 03:19 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
oralloy wrote:
When Democrats abuse the law to harm innocent people who merely disagree with their political views, that is both outrageous and a witch hunt (not to mention ample justification for outlawing the Democratic Party in America).

You say this, but: the Democratic party isn't running ANY investigation into Trump right now.

They caused the special prosecutor to be appointed to run the witch hunt.


Cycloptichorn wrote:
The Trump DoJ appointed a Republican special prosecutor to do so,

Only because the Democrats were pressuring them in bad faith to do so.

As I said before:
"He was naive and caved in to Democratic pressure to appoint Mueller. He was wrong to do so."


Cycloptichorn wrote:
How can you pin this one on the Dem party when they aren't the ones, yaknow, running the investigations?

The Democrats are the ones who are responsible for the special prosecutor being appointed.


Cycloptichorn wrote:
They're not 'abusing the law.'

Convicting innocent people of imaginary crimes in order to harm people who disagree with you is very much an abuse of the law.


Cycloptichorn wrote:
I wonder what laws you even think are being abused, let alone how you think the Dem's are the ones doing it!

The entire legal system is abused when the Democrats maliciously prosecute innocent people.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Thu 2 Nov, 2017 03:19 am
@Builder,
Where did anyone claim that Russia spent more than the combined totals of the two candidates and their campaign committees? Where did anyone claim that the Russians even spent a comparable amount to that spent by the candidates?
Quote:
This has been a key argument from Facebook, Twitter and Google during this whole process: Content from Russian-controlled accounts was just a drop in the bucket compared to all of the other ads and posts people could have seen on their respective services.

Nothing new here.

But the Russians evidently got a big bang for their buck:
How the Russians pretended to be Texans — and Texans believed them

oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 2 Nov, 2017 03:21 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
oralloy wrote:
It was already common knowledge that Hillary had wrongfully deleted tens of thousands of emails.

But it wasn't common knowledge that Russia already had the stolen DNC and Podesta e-mails.

It may not have been proven, but there were plenty of rumors and suspicions about Russian hacking.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 2 Nov, 2017 03:22 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
He doesn't have to charge Trump. If members of his inside team are proven to have engaged in illegal activities and if evidence suggests that Trump knew about or directed these activities I'm sure impeachment charges will ensue.

Little chance of that unless the Democrats can come up with a good argument why anyone should care after they placed Bill Clinton above the law. And it is already clear that they don't have any good arguments.

It is a pretty big if in any case. Little chance that such a thing happened.
0 Replies
 
 

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