192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Below viewing threshold (view)
Cycloptichorn
 
  6  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 10:06 am
It'll be interesting to see if Mueller can successfully get any of these guys to roll up on Trump. The fact that they apparently got the 30-year old to plead guilty in secret a month ago suggests that there's some evidence this has already begun.

Prediction: Mueller starts going after Manafort's family and Flynn's son next.

Cycloptichorn
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 11:02 am
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/opinion/communism-rose-colored-glasses.html

Quote:
I am quoting a few lines from “Red Famine,” Anne Applebaum’s brilliant new history of the deliberate policy of mass starvation inflicted on Ukraine by Joseph Stalin in the early 1930s. An estimated five million or more people perished in just a few years. Walter Duranty, The Times’s correspondent in the Soviet Union, insisted the stories of famine were false. He won a Pulitzer Prize in 1932 for reportage the paper later called “completely misleading.”


Quote:
Why is it that people who know all about the infamous prison on Robben Island in South Africa have never heard of the prison on Cuba’s Isle of Pines? Why is Marxism still taken seriously on college campuses and in the progressive press? Do the same people who rightly demand the removal of Confederate statues ever feel even a shiver of inner revulsion at hipsters in Lenin or Mao T-shirts?


Quote:
they will insist that there is an essential difference between Nazism and Communism — between race-hatred and class-hatred; Buchenwald and the gulag — that morally favors the latter. They will attempt to dissociate Communist theory from practice in an effort to acquit the former. They will balance acknowledgment of the repression and mass murder of Communism with references to its “real advances and achievements.” They will say that true communism has never been tried. They will write about Stalinist playwright Lillian Hellman in tones of sympathy and understanding they never extend to film director Elia Kazan.


Quote:
Venezuela is today in the throes of socialist dictatorship and humanitarian ruin, having been cheered along its predictable and unmerry course by the usual progressive suspects.


Quote:
An ideology that at one point enslaved and immiserated roughly a third of the world collapsed without a fight and was exposed for all to see. Yet we still have trouble condemning it as we do equivalent evils. And we treat its sympathizers as romantics and idealists, rather than as the fools, fanatics or cynics they really were and are.


revelette1
 
  5  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 11:26 am
In unrelated to Mueller news:

Quote:
WASHINGTON — US court bars Trump from changing military policy on service by transgender people.


AP
revelette1
 
  2  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 11:42 am
Quote:
According to a document unsealed by the FBI on Monday, Papadopoulos admits to having been contacted by Russian agents shortly after being identified as a campaign adviser, contacts that continued for months. After being arrested in July, he then meets with authorities multiple times to answer questions, details revealed only once the Manafort indictment is made public.

Below, a timeline of what the statement details.

March 6, 2016. Papadopoulos learns that he will serve as an adviser to Trump’s campaign. (The timing isn’t clear; it may have been a day before or after this date.)

March 14. While in Italy, Papadopoulos meets a “professor based in London” who is initially “uninterested” in Papadopoulos — until Papadopoulos explains that he’s working for Trump’s campaign. Papadopoulos is interested in the professor because the professor has links to the Kremlin, which Papadopoulos believed would be useful in bolstering his position with the campaign.

March 21. Trump meets with The Post and identifies several campaign advisers, including Papadopoulos.

March 22. Papadopoulos’s credentials are called into question.
On this same day, Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta is sent an email including a fraudulent link to change his Google password. It’s believed that this email was sent by an agent of the Russian government and was used to illegally access his email account.

March 24. Papadopoulos and the professor meet in London. They are joined by a woman who claims to be a niece of Russian President Vladimir Putin. The purpose of the meeting, he later writes in an email to “the Campaign Supervisor and several members of the Campaign’s foreign policy team” (per the statement), is to arrange a meeting between Trump and Putin.

Who the “campaign supervisor” is isn’t clear. At that point, the Trump campaign is being managed by Corey Lewandowski. In August, The Post reported that Sam Clovis, a campaign co-chairman who worked with the foreign policy team, had rejected the idea of a meeting over the short term.
“We thought we probably should not go forward with any meeting with the Russians until we have had occasion to sit with our NATO allies,” he wrote in an email.

From our report:

In the same email chain, [adviser Navy Rear Adm. Charles] Kubic, the retired admiral, reminded others about legal restrictions on meetings with certain Russian officials, adding, “Just want to make sure that no one on the team outruns their headlights and embarrasses the campaign.”

March 28. Manafort is hired to manage the Trump campaign’s delegate process.

March 31. At a campaign national security meeting in Washington (also attended by Trump), Papadopoulos tells the group that he had connections that could facilitate a meeting with Putin.

Trump tweeted an image from the meeting. Jeff Sessions, then a senator from Alabama, is seated in the foreground and is speaking. Papadopoulos is sitting two chairs to Sessions’s left.

Early April. Papadopoulos emails the foreign policy team to update them about ongoing discussions with the professor and Putin’s “niece.” He details his “outreach to Russia.”

At some point this month, the Democratic National Committee’s server is illegally accessed by hackers believed to be connected to the Russian government. It’s the second such intrusion; the first occurred in the summer of 2015.

April 10 — 11. In an email exchange with the “niece” and the professor, Papadopoulos mentions trying to set up a “potential foreign policy trip to Russia.” The professor replies that it has “already been agreed” and mentions that he’ll be in Moscow later that month for meetings at the Russian Duma and a “Valdai meeting.” (There is such a meeting on April 19.)

The niece replies, “I have already alerted my personal links to our conversation and your request . . . As mentioned we are all very excited by the possibility of a good relationship with Mr. Trump. The Russian Federation would love to welcome him once his candidature would be officially announced.”

April 18. During the period that the professor says he’ll be in Russia, he introduces Papadopoulos over email to a Russian who works for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Later reporting from The Post indicates that this is likely Ivan Timofeev, a senior MFA official.

Late April. Papadopoulos and the Timofeev have “multiple conversations over Skype and email” about setting up a meeting between the campaign and government officials.

April 22. Timofeev and Papadopoulos discuss meetings in Moscow or London.

April 26. Papadopoulos and the professor meet in London. At that meeting, the professor tells Papadopoulos that, while in Moscow, he learned that “the Russians had obtained “dirt” on then-candidate [Hillary] Clinton.” Per Papadopoulos, the professor said that “‘They have dirt on her’; ‘the Russians had emails of Clinton’; ‘they have thousands of emails.’”

April 27. Papadopoulos emails a senior campaign staffer to indicate that he’s gotten some “interesting messages.” He also emails a “high-ranking campaign official” to reiterate that Putin would like to host Trump. The Post’s August report indicates that the high-ranking official who was told about Putin wanting to meet was Lewandowski.

April 30. Papadopoulos emails the professor to thank him for his help, saying that it’s “history making” if the meeting happens.

May 4. Timofeev emails Papadopoulos.

“I have just talked to my colleagues from the MFA,” it reads. “The[y] are open for cooperation. One of the options is to make a meeting for you at the North America Desk, if you are in Moscow.”

Papadopoulos forwards this to Lewandowski and, the next day to the “campaign supervisor,” who is probably Clovis. Lewandowski doesn’t reply; Clovis says, “[t]here are legal issues we need to mitigate, meeting with foreign officials as a private citizen.”

May 21. Papadopoulos emails another high-ranking campaign official — Manafort, according to The Post’s August report — informing him that “Russia has been eager to meet Mr. Trump for quite sometime and have been reaching out to me to discuss.”

Manafort forwards the email to Rick Gates (who was also indicted on Monday). “We need someone to communicate that [Trump] is not doing these trips,” he writes. “It should be someone low level in the campaign so as not to send any signal.”

Summer 2016. Papadopoulos tries to set up an off-the-record meeting between the campaign and Russian officials, possibly including himself.

“The Russian ministry of foreign affairs messaged and said that if Mr. Trump is unable to make it to Russia, if a campaign rep (me or someone else) can make it for meetings?” he emails a campaign official on June 19. “I am willing to make the trip off the record if it’s in the interest of Mr. Trump and the campaign to meet specific people.”

The meeting never happens.

July 22. WikiLeaks begins releasing emails stolen from the DNC.

July 27. During a news conference, Trump states that Russia “probably [has] her 33,000 emails” — referring to emails deleted by Clinton after her service in the State Department because her lawyers didn’t believe them to be related to her tenure.

Oct. 7. WikiLeaks begins releasing emails stolen from Podesta.

Jan. 27. Papadopoulos is interviewed at the FBI. During that interview, he makes false statements about the above interactions. He claims:

That the professor contacted him before Papadopoulos worked with the campaign and that he met the “niece” before him being in that role as well.

That the professor was an unimportant figure.

That he was told about the “dirt” on Clinton before serving with the campaign.

Feb. 16. The FBI interviews him again.

Feb. 16. The FBI interviews him again.

Feb. 17. Papadopoulos deactivates his Facebook account. It had included information about his conversations with the professor.

July 27. Papadopoulos is arrested at Dulles Airport in Washington.
Summer. Papadopoulos “[meets] with the Government on numerous occasions to provide information and answer questions.”

Oct. 5. Papadopoulos admits that the statements he gave the FBI are false and agrees to the timeline and details above.

Oct. 30. The statement of offense is unsealed, the same day that indictments against Manafort and Gates are made public.


WP
Below viewing threshold (view)
Cycloptichorn
 
  5  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 11:46 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
The part about forgetting about / ignoring the ills of communism is pretty spot on. This bit though -

Quote:
One of those suspects, Jeremy Corbyn, may be Britain’s next prime minister, in part because a generation of Britons has come of age not knowing that the line running from “progressive social commitments” to catastrophic economic results is short and straight.


This is simply right-wing claptrap. The author is using a false parallel between a completely different set of economic and social production to argue against progressive policies today, even though those policies do not in any way resemble the thing he's describing.

Cycloptichorn
ehBeth
 
  2  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 11:51 am
@revelette1,
and all I can see is

Quote:


March 31. At a campaign national security meeting in Washington (also attended by Trump), Papadopoulos tells the group that he had connections that could facilitate a meeting with Putin.

Trump tweeted an image from the meeting. Jeff Sessions, then a senator from Alabama, is seated in the foreground and is speaking.



WP
0 Replies
 
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 11:55 am
@revelette1,
Good.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 12:16 pm
@cameronleon,
For the umpteenth goddam time, the fuss is about Russian meddling in the election process.
Matt Vespa wrote:
... a majority of Democrats actually believe that Russia messed with the vote tallies.

That statement is based on a poll from early January when the story was just breaking. It reflected many people's gut reaction to the news at the time. Mueller's investigation is still in the early stages and it's possible that an innocent explanation for all those meetings during the campaign between senior Trump staff members and various Russian lawyers, oligarchs, and agents will be found. But it looks very suspicious and you can't blame uninformed people for jumping to their own conclusions.
BillW
 
  3  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 01:03 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

I don't like Gabbard. I think she took some cynical, opportunistic stances against Obama, and I think her support of Sanders showed bad judgement.
I like Kamala Harris. And I still like Liz Warren.


me too!
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 01:05 pm
@BillW,
me too, too.
cameronleon
 
  -4  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 01:35 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
That statement is based on a poll from early January when the story was just breaking. It reflected many people's gut reaction to the news at the time. Mueller's investigation is still in the early stages and it's possible that an innocent explanation for all those meetings during the campaign between senior Trump staff members and various Russian lawyers, oligarchs, and agents will be found. But it looks very suspicious and you can't blame uninformed people for jumping to their own conclusions.


Play that yes, they were talking about Hillary Clinton.

Talking is not a crime.

You must prove an attempt to use the information in the campaign, and there is no evidence of such action.

Do you think that for many years US members and Russians just talk about countries deals? They can talk about a movie as well, or about you.

What do you think Russians can have as "information" about Mrs. Hillary Clinton that the Trump's campaign might need to use against her?

So far, Hillary Clinton is the one who post attacks in a 95 percent over 5 percent attacks made by Trump in the campaigns.

And nothing 'secret" came out from candidate Donald Trump campaign attacking Mrs. Hillary Clinton.

The whole Russian collusion is a joke when you look for solid evidence.



hightor
 
  3  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 01:56 pm
@cameronleon,
Quote:

Play that yes, they were talking about Hillary Clinton.

Okay, why don't they just come out and say they were talking about Clinton if it's no crime to talk? Why the denials and lies?
Quote:
The whole Russian collusion is a joke when you look for solid evidence.

A joke? N0, more like an as yet unproven suspicion. I'm not conducting the investigation nor am I in communication with anyone who works for Mueller, so my inability to provide "proof" is totally irrelevant.
Cycloptichorn
 
  5  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 01:58 pm
Word on the street is that Papodopolous (or however it was spelled) turned State's a few months ago and has been wearing a wire ever since. THAT could be very interesting indeed.

Cycloptichorn
snood
 
  3  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 02:38 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Word on the street is that Papodopolous (or however it was spelled) turned State's a few months ago and has been wearing a wire ever since. THAT could be very interesting indeed.

Cycloptichorn

That wire tidbit would add even more flavor to this Russia "nothing burger".
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 02:48 pm
Y'know what else might make this Russia "nothing burger" even more delicious? The fact that the prosecutors that Mueller has reviewing all Trump-related financial documents and matters do that type of thing FOR A LIVING. He enlisted them for their expertise prosecuting financial crimes. Yummy!
cameronleon
 
  -3  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 04:58 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
Okay, why don't they just come out and say they were talking about Clinton if it's no crime to talk? Why the denials and lies


Because beyond the Clinton's affair, they might have some secret business they don't want to talk about.

Avoiding to be targeted in the joke of Russian collusion they were trying to hide their hidden business.
Quote:
A joke? N0, more like an as yet unproven suspicion. I'm not conducting the investigation nor am I in communication with anyone who works for Mueller, so my inability to provide "proof" is totally irrelevant.


And this is the point.

Lets play that in order to save their necks the indicted ones lie and say that was indeed a Russian collusion.

Their words is not enough, because evidence must back up what they say.

In a case like this, "he says she says" is not enough to impeach anyone.

While the economy is going great, the country is getting stronger, there is freedom, the current administration is doing steps to protect our frontiers, instead of enjoying this great "weather", I see lots of guys looking for storms that never appear.

Other countries must be laughing of the US "democracy", because liberals are attacking the government like Palestinians inside Israel... and as far as everybody knows and see, this administration is doing well, very well...

Israel is more attached to the US, Japan and China are getting better business with the US, and China is considering its intervention with North Korea to stop a possible worldwide danger from this small nation.

ISIS has been removed from lots of cities in Iraq and Syria.

Come on, if you say that the Trump administration is a failure you are saying lies. Don't be stupid, take advantage of the current economy, travel, invest, find jobs, study, get better... why you waste your time hating president Donald Trump?

What this administration has taken from you?

Why do you really want?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 05:09 pm
@snood,
It's still a big fat nothing burger.

None of the alleged crimes have anything to do with Trump and his campaign.

I'm sure you. like Mueller, hope that Manafort can be tuflipped and that he will provide something on Trump, but that assumes he has anything to give up. It's possible of course, but it's all you have right now. (Surely you are not hoping for Manafort or Gates to make up lies)

You are better off hoping Trump will overreact and do something politically stupid like firing Mueller or pardoning Manafort and Gates.



Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Mon 30 Oct, 2017 05:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It's still a big fat nothing burger.

None of the alleged crimes have anything to do with Trump and his campaign.


You can't say that so quickly, as we don't know the extent of the transactions Manafort was involved in or who they were with.

Quote:
I'm sure you. like Mueller, hope that Manafort can be tuflipped and that he will provide something on Trump, but that assumes he has anything to give up. It's possible of course, but it's all you have right now. (Surely you are not hoping for Manafort or Gates to make up lies)


It's certainly not 'all we have.' Don't forget that not only was Gates charged, but another person has already pled guilty and gone State's Evidence. There's also a great deal of unresolved questions regarding transactions between Russians and Trump directly over the last decade, the role of Cambridge Analytica, and more to learn about meetings between Trump Jr. and the Russians (all of which have been lied about, constantly, by Trump and his team). We're far from done here.

Manafort is a ******* scumbag who was brought on to Trump's team for a reason. He had no real previous campaign management experience. But he did have extensive criminal contacts in Russia and the Ukraine.

Quote:
You are better off hoping Trump will overreact and do something politically stupid like firing Mueller or pardoning Manafort and Gates.


The real answer here is Obstruction of Justice. I would bet that there were more than a few lies told to the FBI during the course of this investigation, and more than a few actions taken to try and scuttle it.

There are four other sealed indictments numerically between Manafort's and Gates. I would bet that there are some other shoes left to drop pretty soon now.

Cycloptichorn

 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.42 seconds on 04/25/2024 at 07:41:42