192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  4  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 09:53 am
@blatham,
KimDotCom. Now that's a legit data source. And speaking of attending to legit data sources, there's this...
Quote:
I still haven't heard the media report on this - except for Fox. It's the biggest story in the history of the country. Watch what happens to KimDotCom and Hannity.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 10:04 am
Here's the best, most even-handed writing on the Russian hacking/inside DNC leak (which some people suspect could have been Bernie supporter, Seth Rich).

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

Excerpt:

Editor’s note, 9/1/2017: For more than 150 years, The Nation has been committed to fearless, independent journalism. We have a long history of seeking alternative views and taking unpopular stances. We believe it is important to challenge questionable conventional wisdom and to foster debate—not police it. Focusing on unreported or inadequately reported issues of major importance and raising questions that are not being asked have always been a central part of our work.

This journalistic mission led The Nation to be troubled by the paucity of serious public scrutiny of the January 2017 intelligence-community assessment (ICA) on purported Russian interference in our 2016 presidential election, which reflects the judgment of the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA. That report concluded that Russian President Vladimir Putin personally ordered the hacking of the DNC and the dissemination of e-mails from key staffers via WikiLeaks, in order to damage Hillary Clinton’s candidacy. This official intelligence assessment has since led to what some call “Russiagate,” with charges and investigations of alleged collusion with the Kremlin, and, in turn, to what is now a major American domestic political crisis and an increasingly perilous state of US-Russia relations. To this day, however, the intelligence agencies that released this assessment have failed to provide the American people with any actual evidence substantiating their claims about how the DNC material was obtained or by whom. Astonishingly and often overlooked, the authors of the declassified ICA themselves admit that their “judgments are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact.

----------------------------------

"Russia" has simply not been proven.
David Brock openly spent $1million on a group of banshees to impersonate Bernie Bros in order to insult people online and decimate Bernie's reputation by being racist and sexist as supporters. It was planned much in the same way as Clinton tried to paint Obama in that election. Of course, she couldn't use the race card there--at least not in the way people normally use the race card...

I hope Russian influence/ hacking IS proven, as long as we can punish Brock/DNC for the same crimes people are so happy to condemn Russia for.

We HAVE the proof on Brock/DNC.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 10:19 am
Must read


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/09/donald-trump-white-supremacy-and-the-discourse-of-panic.html
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 10:29 am
OMG....this is Seth Rich all over again!!!!

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/352620-fake-news-writer-in-2016-presidential-election-found-dead
Fake news writer in 2016 presidential election found dead
Lash
 
  0  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 10:50 am
@maporsche,
No, the Russians and I don't mind that this guy is dead.


But, we didn't do it.


I swear.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:01 pm
@maporsche,
By nature, I tend to dismiss conspiracy theories, but it's like that saying "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't following me."

I do find it very hard to believe that the Clintons could be responsible for so many deaths, but only because I can't believe that by now someone who knew about it wouldn't have blabbed. With as much power and wealth conveyed by the office of the US presidency, I wouldn't put anything past any individual who has a legitimate shot at obtaining it.

Murder has played a role in politics throughout history and still does in places where the powerful can more easily get away with it (Russia, and China, for example). I don't think American politicians are a moral-breed apart from any other in the world, and if desperate enough I think one or two would resort to murder.

One of the dangers, I think, is our society being increasingly divided along ideological tribal lines creating the increased opportunity for politicians to get away with such tactics. Obama's DOJ was perfectly willing to look away from possible crimes that favored its tribal allegiance. None rose to the level of murder, but once you can dismiss the importance of one crime, how far away is dismissing the importance of the worst?

With the MSM so willing to dispense with their role as watchdogs for Democracy when it comes to their ideological tribe, we lose a great level of protection. They will, of course, be all over the Trump administration if its DOJ goes too far, and that is as it should be, but if they are not willing to apply the same scrutiny to the DOJs of Democrat administrations they are effectively worthless.

When it comes to the corruption of power there isn't enough difference between Republicans and Democrats to matter, but as we grow increasingly willing to overlook the excesses of our respective tribes, we assure that the corruption will worsen in both.

Another side of this is the insistence to find everything the "other tribe" does to be corrupt. This, as of now, is an entirely unsustainable position to take and only adds to the problem.

We have a relatively small group of elites controlling just about everything that happens in this country. Thankfully, every once in a while the power of the people asserts itself, but not nearly enough. Whether they are of the Right or the Left is as meaningless as their false allegiance to whatever those terms mean.

It's about power and wealth. That's all it about and there isn't a politician in America who is in a position to secure both who can be trusted. Not Trump, not Clinton, not Sanders, not Warren, not any of them.

I'm on the downside of life's curve and I think I'll probably manage to make it through this increasing mess, but I worry quite a lot for my kids and grandkids.

Trump promised reform and as I expected he would, has failed to deliver. If anyone truly thinks that Sanders would have done better, they are fools. Just because he isn't quite as greedy as the Clintons doesn't mean he isn't a creature of the Establishment. If he were to assume the presidency tomorrow it would be a matter of months before his foolish devotees became disappointed and he would bellow "It's the Republicans!" just like Obama did.

Puck was right: What fools these mortals be.

It is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better and that's nothing to hope for.


Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:05 pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/27/since-2013-minorities-and-americans-without-college-degrees-showed-greatest-gains-in-wealth-federal-reserve-report-shows/?utm_term=.3a434484f045&wpisrc=al_alert-COMBO-economy%252Bnation&wpmk=1

Proving that if you want you can dismiss any good news.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:35 pm
We've seen this at A2k for some time now - from our own redwoods party warrior

https://www.thecut.com/2017/09/elizabeth-warren-hillary-clinton-sexism.html


Quote:
After posting the video, Kuhner repeatedly tweeted the clip at Donald Trump and conservative news outlets, alongside descriptions of Warren as a “phony Indian, a phony progressive & a phony senator,” who “made millions shilling for big banks, corporations & insurance giants” and “got rich by flipping homes, taking advantage of old ladies. She embodies crony capitalism.” Again, what was odd about the approach was not the revelation that conservatives hate, fear, and want to defeat Elizabeth Warren; it’s that they’re deploying a populist critique — one that questions, rather than emphasizes and makes a bogeyman of, her left bona fides — to do so.

By the end of the week, the Kuhner clip began to gain traction, and was posted at bigger and bigger conservative sites, including The Gateway Pundi, The Daily Caller, The Washington Times , Fox News, and The American Mirror, which was finally linked on Twitter by Drudge.

Most of the right’s coverage of Kuhner’s interaction with Warren described her as “frazzled” or “triggered,” claiming that she “scrambles” when confronted. None of that is true; the video shows her answering his charges cogently, pointing out that the kinds of economic policy she believes in — low college costs and higher wages — permitted her the degree of economic mobility she’s enjoyed. Nevertheless, the descriptive and highly gendered language used to frame the clip by the right closely echoes the popular portrayal of Hillary Clinton as spasmodic, easily rattled and high-strung, paving the way for fake news about Clinton’s ill health and mental fragility. “Fake Indian Elizabeth Warren is so easy to frazzle; all one has to do is call her out on her lies and hypocrisy and she loses her cool,” read the Gateway Pundit.

All this frothing might have stayed confined to the dark reaches of the right — in fact, Shareblue, the site whose 2016 purpose was the defense of Hillary Clinton but which David Brock has since described as “the Breitbart of the Left,” reframed the Kuhner clip as an example of Warren “destroy[ing]” a conservative radio host — had it not been for a mainstream media confluence.


<snip>

(it's longish - as nymag pieces often are - go read if this sort of thing (politics a la media) interests you)

Quote:
The mainstreaming of this caricature of a woman, which appeals to America’s lizard-brain disdain for the hand-in-the-air Tracy Flicks of the world — the kind who take doggedly pragmatic paths to advancement, who’ll say anything to get ahead, who invite policy experts for dinners to learn what they don’t know in a manner that comes across as striving — manages to gently but efficiently discredit Warren both with a right wing that regards ambitious women as threatening and ugly, and a left who might view her reported approach as fake, compromised and emblematic of reviled Establishment mores. It’s a limber exertion.

But it’s worked before.

By midweek, right-wing super-PAC America Rising


<snip>

Quote:
the organization’s strategy here is especially clear in the wake of a story Terry Gross told just last week in her interview with Hillary Clinton around the publication of her memoir What Happened. On the Clinton episode of “Fresh Air,” Gross recalled how a portion of their 2015 conversation — about Clinton’s evolving position on gay rights — had gone viral, becoming a building block of the argument that Clinton has been insufficiently progressive throughout her career when it came to LGBTQ rights. As Gross pointed out to Clinton last week, that edited clip had exploded not because of LGBTQ activist reaction to it, but because America Rising had flagged it and pushed it out. The group “had it up before we even had it up on our website,” Gross told Clinton, marveling at how, “you were definitely going to be stronger on LGBTQ rights than anyone American Rising would likely support for president. So here was the right trying to turn your base against you, the right attacking you from the left.”


That conservative funders would try to work the same multi-tentacled magic on Warren, digging in years before a presidential threat even becomes flesh — Warren has so far said she will not run in 2020 — makes perfect sense, especially since portions of the left remain stuck in an acrid battle in the wake of the Clinton-Sanders fight of 2016.


<snip>

Quote:
Nor was this the first time that the mainstream press and the right wing have, perhaps unconsciously, mutually fed off of, and fed readers, similar and often gendered messages about Warren. Last year, the New York Times published a story about Warren, describing her as “imperious” and a “scold,” the latter of which would be echoed by Mike Huckabee in a February tweet. MSNBC’s Mika Brzezinski described her in 2017 as “shrill” and “almost unhinged,” prefiguring the scrambling, frazzled, freaking-out headlines coming from the right this week.

“The irony is striking,” Jon Keller wrote in the Boston Globe back in February. “The leading female critic of the political Establishment is cast as a somewhat unhinged hypocrite by the right, a meme now being channeled by the left.”

And last week, as a few left-wing pundits, longtime critics of Clinton, weighed in in response to the Times — Chapo Trap House’s Felix Biederman tweeting on the subject of Warren’s meeting with the UBS banker and Dimon, “lol like the one thing she was supposed to be good on”; the politics reporter Libby Watson replying “she’s learning all the right lessons from Clinton 2016 I see” — it was hard not to feel like the marionettes were all playing their parts on the stage in Robert Mercer’s mind, and that it wasn’t just Warren who hadn’t learned any lessons from 2016.



__

n.b. I am not someone who would (if in the US) support Warren in a presidential run. She's effective/useful in her current role and too old. I am following this for the media factor.
wmwcjr
 
  0  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 01:33 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Excellent post!
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  5  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 01:40 pm
@blatham,
Lash wrote:

12% of Sanders voters voted for Trump.

I was surprised too.


blatham wrote:
3) There is an identical precedent from 2008 where GOP operatives used the emerging social media universe (MySpace at the time) to forward a story that because Hillary had been cheated out of the nomination by Obama, that therefore thousands or millions of women were so angry that they were going to teach the corrupt Dem party a lesson and vote for McCain/Palin. This was the ClintonsForMcCain/Puma etc crowd.

If you don't know this history, for the love of god, get educated on it. Wikipedia has a rather good page on it HERE In 2008, I spent six months digging into this.


There's an additional data point to Lash's post that's also relevant to Blatham's:

Yes, surveys have showed that 12% of Sanders voters voted for Trump. Schaffner's finding of this was echoed by the WaPo political science blog The Monkey Cage.

But put that into the perspective of 2008: apparently, 25% of Clinton primary voters ended up voting for John McCain in the general election. Twice as high a share. That's according to "'Sour Grapes' Or Rational Voting? Voter Decision Making Among Thwarted Primary Voters In 2008" in Public Opinion Quarterly - I downloaded it as PDF so don't have a URL for it anymore. (I also didn't actually read it, just skimmed through the numbers after I saw them mentioned a lot. :-) )

Sooo.. what does that mean?

That the PUMA phenomenon had more of an organic existence, and involved an even greater number of sincerely angry women, than Blatham might have supposed, even aside from the ratfucking?

That the 12% of Trump-voting Bernie supporters represent less of a singular kind of "potent anger" that says something important about just how hated Hillary was etc, and actually more of a routine phenomenon, than Lash imagined?

That the Clinton supporters (not here; elsewhere on social media) who used the 12% number to claim that their assertions about treacherous BernieBros were right from the start had the wrong end of the stick?

More, tomorrow, in As Washington Turns...
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 01:49 pm
This is a perfect example of the MSM abandoning their role of watchdog for democracy in favor of licking the boots of their tribal leaders

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/26/awan-funneling-massive-data-off-congressional-server-dems-claim-its-childs-homework/?utm_medium=email

This thing has stunk to high heaven from the very beginning and it's been largely ignored or dismissed by the MSM

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 01:51 pm
@Lash,
And here's the response from VIPS members critical of the VIPS analysis published in the Nation
Quote:
WHEN FACTS ARE NOT FACTS
BY THOMAS DRAKE, SCOTT RITTER, LISA LING, CIAN WESTMORELAND, PHILIP M. GIRALDI, AND JESSELYN RADACK
The recent article published on August 9, 2017, in The Nation by Patrick Lawrence leans heavily on a July 24, 2017, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) memo published by Consortiumnews.com and then picked up by several media outlets.

However, a number of VIPS members did not sign this problematic memo because of troubling questions about its conclusions, and others who did sign it have raised key concerns since its publication.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-leak-or-a-hack-a-forum-on-the-vips-memo/#vips-dissent
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 01:59 pm
@ehBeth,
Yes. Thanks Beth. That is exactly how they play the game and how they work to get their stories into the mainstream press.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 02:00 pm
@blatham,
Perfect

Every minion who doesn't get his or her way now in the preparation of a collective product thinks it's A-OK to say "I didn't agree!"

Nevermind that the editorial staff at a periodical most liberals have considered sacred text for years thought otherwise. It didn't suit what you want to believe and so the outliers must be right.

If, like you, someone wants to believe the product was faulty they will automatically assume these minions are righteous truth-tellers when they could just as easily (and most probably) have been partisan hacks, pissed off because their contributions weren't highlighted.

Every complainer is a whistle-blower. Every leaker is a hero.

The center will not hold.
snood
 
  3  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 02:30 pm
@nimh,
Very informative and interesting stuff nimh. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 02:32 pm
@nimh,
Let's assume these figures are close to reality...

It is an interesting data point. But you have over-stated anything I wrote or implied here
Quote:
That the PUMA phenomenon had more of an organic existence, and involved an even greater number of sincerely angry women, than Blatham might have supposed, even aside from the ratfucking?

Lots of women were very angry. While I was involved in digging around at the time, I was in communication with many (at least 100) of them (it is the only instance in about 30 years where I posted with a false identity, posing as female). But the purpose of the rat-******* run by the RNC and related entities was two-fold:
1) to build up anger among female Clinton supporters so as to divide the Dem voting population (commonly using appeals to racist sentiments)
2) to corral such people into a closed-off universe filled with innuendo and misinformation about Obama and the DNC while directing them to vote for McCain/Palin as a protest - You can only correct the misogynist DNC by seriously damaging it.

As to the divergence (12% compared to 25%, if the numbers are accurate) I'd be happy to wager that there weren't more than a handful of african american women in that 25% group.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 02:41 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Nevermind that the editorial staff at a periodical most liberals have considered sacred text for years thought otherwise. It didn't suit what you want to believe and so the outliers must be right.

First, do try to find instances where I have linked to or quoted that "sacred" text here on A2K. In the last two years, I can't recall doing so even a single time though it's possible. It's not on my regular reading list and if I end up there, it will be perhaps once every two months or so.

Second, that any publication is generally "good" or not definitely does not make it certain that all content is faultless or correct.

Third, you've obviously not read the material or you would have seen the Nation's editorial statement on why they subsequently reached out to critics of the Lawrence piece.
nimh
 
  4  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 02:42 pm
@nimh,
I would hesitate with making assumptions about the motives of that 25% of Clinton primary voters who ended up voting McCain too, by the way.

Blatham mentioned that there were certainly "angry women who believed and hoped a woman they respected would finally achieve the WH", but there might only be a very partial overlap between those and 2008's Clinton->McCain voters.

She did, for example, win a bunch of red states in the primary that have a significant ancestrally Democratic vote that had already, especially in presidential elections, been turning red for some time, West-Virginia being the prime example.

Considering the kind of campaign Hillary started waging against Obama in 2008 once she turned from favourite to underdog, emphasizing populist themes and sometimes viscerally appealing to resentment about Obama and his fans, it's easy to imagine that she pulled in the votes of a fair number of those old Democrats in the primary, who then turned to McCain in the general.

That could be especially true in closed primaries where older voters who are still registered Democrats are limited to the Democratic primary, even though they'd really already stopped voting Dems for President in the general a while ago. The way Clinton started waging her campaign after Super Tuesday seemed almost tailored to reel them in too.

On a related note, racial resentments and an unwillingness to vote for a black candidate might also have played a role for Clinton->McCain voters.

Finally, I think those of us who follow politics and policy on a daily basis tend to severely underestimate the degree of randomness in people's votes.

Sure, there's a good share of voters who will always vote for the Democrat, or for the Republican, end of story. But beyond that kind of tribalism, the people who switch or "float" their votes from election to election, even within a year, are usually not very much like the rational centrists, moderate liberals or "fiscal conservatives" the pundits like to imagine at all. Instead, they're more likely to combine heterodox sets of views and preferences that mix and match stuff that the experts would deem (extremely) liberal or (extremely) conservative, in seemingly random ways.

An amusing article summarized data about this, conjuring up an uncle who believes that "the United States should nationalize the health-care system (a very liberal view) and that gay people should be jailed (a very conservative view)", and concluding that this kind of thing is way more common than you might think. The floating voters we tend to ascribe moderate views are "more aptly described as “conflicted,”' the author concluded - and who knows how their vote might end up switching or floating from one election to another, even from primary to general?

And that's not even getting into voters who go on personality, instinct, etc. There's just a lot of random churn. This week, the Berlin Tagesspiegel found a German voter who was casting his "first vote" for the candidate of The Left, which emerged in part from East-Germany's former communist party, and his "second vote" for the free-market, liberal (or what you'd call libertarian) FDP. I mean, who the **** knows?
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 02:52 pm
Paul Waldman has a very smart take on what we had better expect in the next election.
Quote:
Trump's re-election effort will be the most vicious campaign you've ever seen

...Presidential re-election campaigns are referenda on the incumbent — most of the time, anyway. In 2004, George W. Bush succeeded in making the election mostly about his opponent, whom he and his party gutted with a hundred stilettos. Character assassination is the GOP specialty, particularly Trump's; you can bet that whoever the Democratic nominee is, they'll be the target of some of the most vicious personal attacks we've ever seen.
Waldman
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Wed 27 Sep, 2017 03:12 pm
@blatham,
First, I wrote "most liberals", not "blatham"

Second, true but immaterial

Third, You are trotting out old news.
0 Replies
 
 

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