monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I'm a Trump voter and all I want is for the Law to be executed. I don't have any desire to see these young adults (not children) deported

You voted for the candidate whose entire campaign was based on deporting exactly these people.

When Trump was railing about illegal immigrants stealing American jobs in front of tens of thousands of cheering supporters at his campaign rallies, when he was promising that he was going to deport them all, these were the people he was talking about.

When Trump ended DACA, he said that this program "victimized" millions of Americans. You're getting exactly what Trump promised on the campaign trail. This is not an accidental outcome. This is exactly what you voted for.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The ball is in the court of Congress where it belongs. There needs to be an end to gutless legislators and overreaching Executives.

Trump supporters are celebrating Trump's Executive Orders as big achievements of his presidency. It's curious how you're complaining about this instrument of the executive branch only when it comes to this one, very specific topic of offering undocumented immigrants a path to legality.

1 Reply

@old europe,

Save it for someone who cares

3 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Save it for someone who cares

Is this shorthand for 'you're right, but I can't really say that out loud?'

Cyclo

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

I wonder how people think we are going to get to Trumps 4% GDP growth without bringing in more workers/people.

3 Replies

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

I wonder how people think we are going to get to Trumps 4% GDP growth without bringing in more workers/people.

Short answer here: these people don't have the foggiest clue how things work, or they wouldn't have voted for Trump in the first place. You can't ask them questions like that, the whole thing might as well be Magic to them.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@maporsche,

Quote:

I wonder how people think we are going to get to Trumps 4% GDP growth without bringing in more workers/people.

If you can work and don't then you get nothing from the govt. The able bodied shouldn't be on govt support. If they don't want to work then they starve and it would only be their own fault.

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/816/its-magic-i-aint-gotta-explain-shit2.jpg

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
I wonder how people think we are going to get to Trumps 4% GDP growth without bringing in more workers/people.

If you can work and don't then you get nothing from the govt. The able bodied shouldn't be on govt support. If they don't want to work then they starve and it would only be their own fault.

Literally nothing to do with what you quoted.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
I wonder how people think we are going to get to Trumps 4% GDP growth without bringing in more workers/people.

If you can work and don't then you get nothing from the govt. The able bodied shouldn't be on govt support. If they don't want to work then they starve and it would only be their own fault.

I mean, like my parents who are on Social Security and Medicare as well? Or just welfare and disability and unemployment?

I wonder how you think the reality of what you are suggesting would play out. How does your suggestion translate into 4% GDP growth per year? You think that people who were receiving payment for a variety of reasons, who have those payments cut, are going to turn into a huge engine of opportunity? In what way?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Given our socialist* lifestyle in Canada and our 4.5 % growth rate

https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/09/05/canadas-surprising-growth-forcing-forecasters-to-change-economic-outlooks.html

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/newsalert-canadas-economic-growth-higher-than-expected-in-second-quarter-2

the answer HAS to be more people on benefits + more Syrian and Haitian refugees (our two latest influx bumps)

*bwahahahaha

0 Replies

@maporsche,

Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
I wonder how people think we are going to get to Trumps 4% GDP growth without bringing in more workers/people.

If you can work and don't then you get nothing from the govt. The able bodied shouldn't be on govt support. If they don't want to work then they starve and it would only be their own fault.

doesn't that pretty much wipe out people/voters in Kentucky and Kansas? doesn't #45 need states like that?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

and now I'm channeling Setanta

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Save it for someone who cares

Is this shorthand for 'you're right, but I can't really say that out loud?'

Cyclo

Try a nicer version of "You're full of **** and I don't care to respond point by point to your fallacious assumptions."

Even you (I think) wouldn't make the argument that because you voted for a certain candidate that you a) Supported every plank of their platform or b) If they win you are morally responsible for every action they take or c) That you must recant your vote the minute you disagree with one of their actions.

BTW - I also think you were able to read what I wrote and understand that I'm not against Trump's action on DACA, in fact, I support it. If it's a must-have program, Congress needs to write it into law.

I don't like Executive fiats, but the best way to eliminate those that were improperly executed is through other Executive fiats. Any of Trump's Executive orders that create a defacto law should have gone through Congress.

This shouldn't be that hard to fathom. I think you can, but you could prove me wrong.

1 Reply

Quote:

Prominent Republicans Urge Supreme Court to End Gerrymandering

WASHINGTON — Breaking ranks with many of their fellow Republicans, a group of prominent politicians filed briefs on Tuesday urging the Supreme Court to rule that extreme political gerrymandering — the drawing of voting districts to give lopsided advantages to the party in power — violates the Constitution.

The briefs were signed by Republicans including Senator John McCain of Arizona; Gov. John R. Kasich of Ohio; Bob Dole, the former Republican Senate leader from Kansas and the party’s 1996 presidential nominee; the former senators John C. Danforth of Missouri, Richard G. Lugar of Indiana and Alan K. Simpson of Wyoming; and Arnold Schwarzenegger, a former governor of California.

NYT

1 Reply

@maporsche,

At the outside of estimates, DACA involved 800,000 people which is probably a high estimate, but do you imagine that all of them are going to prove to be productive members of society, and contribute to economic growth?

There's a difference between Dreamers and Workers.

Also, Trumps action doesn't kill DACA for all time; nor does it impose any restrictions on legal immigration.

You are playing into the hands of the Big Business Bastards you seem to oppose if you are arguing we must have illegal immigration to grow our economy.

Wanting to stop illegal immigration is not the same as wanting to reduce legal immigration.

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Looks like I was wrong about you.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

And what do you know about people in Kentucky and Kansas?

I'm sort of surprised you didn't throw Texas in there too.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

But, as I said earlier in a different post to you - that's a catch-22. You don't want action taken against the Dreamers, but you voted for the person who swore up and down he would, he has done so, now you want Congress to fix it but you KNOW they aren't going to. Isn't that right? You have to know that the House will NEVER pass a compromise bill allowing these people to stay, in an election year.

The end result is that the people get booted out and we have a lot of problems, because your preferred situation is one that is nearly impossible to achieve in reality. I mean, kudos to you for your principles, bravo. But it won't help the people being deported.

One specific point -

Quote:

b) If they win you are morally responsible for every action they take

I'll go even further than that: we are all morally responsible, whether we voted for the person or not. We all share the burdens and the shame this current administration has brought on the country. I was vehemently against Trump, but the stain falls no less on me or any other American.

This is why it's so critical as a citizen to oppose wrong actions, and yes, at some point you ought to be willing to recant your former support of a politician who continually promotes and engages in wrong actions. The fact of the matter is that you all NEVER will, though, because Trump is a cult of personality - and you're members. So yes, I would say that you are both responsible and complicit for the bad things that have arisen and will continue to arise from a Trump presidency. I'm merely responsible, but at least I'm fighting against it and trying to fix it. You're an enabler.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

Hell of a fine idea if the only alternative. But their homes are the US and the cruelty of booting them out just boggles the hell out of me.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Looks like I was wrong about you.

I stand by what I wrote. Baldimo doesn't have even an inkling of an understanding of how the fundamental forces that drive our economy react to changes. Not even a basic understanding of the prevalent theories, let alone real-world historical data. That's pretty damn evident based on his suggestions.

And frankly, if you bought for one second into Trump's boasting about a 4% growth economy, you don't either.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

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