192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 03:32 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
One good thing about this is that the Nazi sympathisers are now showing their true faces.


agreed

snood
 
  2  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 03:37 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I didn't take it at all until you quoted it,I've got him on ignore. Finn is a liar whose lies have caught up with him so he's lashing out blindly. That's what they do when the mask slips and they get found out.

Yup
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 06:44 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
More spew from a childish brat.


I use to think the same thing as well but when you listen to her for a while she does have some very good points that she shares. Wink
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 06:50 pm

Peter On The Trump Bus | Season 15 Ep. 3 |
FAMILY GUY
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  7  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 07:05 pm
@ehBeth,
The Jewish people were immigrants out of the Tigris Euphrates. They wandered and wandered until God, I figure, had just had enough of the kids asking, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"

As you know, everybody is an immigrant or is descended from immigrants (many, many times over). But we humans aren't terribly rational.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  6  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 07:08 pm
@emmett grogan,
My reading suggests that Cruz is popular with no one. But Trump became president and that suggests there isn't much we can rule out as impossible.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  6  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 07:15 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Quote:
izzythepush wrote:
One good thing about this is that the Nazi sympathisers are now showing their true faces.

agreed

I think we can identify a third category here as well. Those who aren't nazis and who don't sympathize with such ideologies but who will use use them and provoke them and minimize what they are up to - with utter cynicism - for electoral reasons.
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 07:27 pm
This Holocaust Survivor Noticed A Detail In Charlottesville You Might Have Missed

“You see something like this, you know, it brings back memories and I’m concerned about what could happen in this country.”

By Alessandra Freitas

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/59a09ca61e00002700c5f5c5.jpeg?cache=mgcbmekoea&ops=scalefit_720_noupscale
JACK ROSENTHAL
Jack Rosenthal survived the Holocaust, only to see neo-Nazi sentiments now rising in his adopted country.

Shock and anger were common feelings for most Americans who followed the recent tragic events in Charlottesville, Virginia.

To Jack Rosenthal, the hate-filled imagery was something he never thought he’d see again, at least not in the United States.

Rosenthal is one of 10,000 Romanian refugees who came to America after World War II. At 88 years old, he still mourns the loss of seven family members who died in the Auschwitz concentration camp. He was the only one to survive.

He was born and raised in a farming village in northern Romania. “Altogether in my village, there were 26 Jewish families,” Rosenthal told HuffPost. Most of them didn’t survive either.

He was 16 when he was taken to the German Nazi concentration camp in occupied Poland. Later, he was transferred to Buchenwald, another camp near Weimar, Germany, where he was forced to work for the Nazis ― the only reason he was kept alive until U.S. military forces began to evacuate the camp’s 28,000 prisoners in 1945. He came to the U.S. hoping to find a new beginning.

“After I was liberated, I thought to myself the world has learned what terrible traces hate can bring to humanity,” he said. “And now this gives me a depressing feeling because it’s happening again, and it’s happening now.”

The successful real estate agent watched the protests from his home in Roslyn, New York, where he lives during the warmer months of the year. In the winter, Rosenthal flies to Florida.

Decades later, he remembers how hard it was to get settled in the U.S. while dealing with the trauma from the war. “When I came here, I used to get really bad nightmares and I would get up in middle of the night not being able to go back to sleep,” he said.

Those days of lingering fear and uncertainty felt much closer after watching neo-Nazis rage during the violent demonstrations in Charlottesville, he said. But after all the anti-Semitic speeches and the deadly car attack, it was one particular detail that caught Rosenthal’s attention.

He noticed it while reading about a Aug. 14 court hearing for James Alex Fields Jr., the man accused of plowing his car into a crowd of counterprotesters at the white nationalist rally, leaving a 32-year-old woman dead and injuring at least 19 other people. The article included a photo of Matthew Heimbach, who had helped promote the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, voicing his displeasure outside the courtroom after a judge denied bail for Fields.

The white supremacist’s T-shirt was the first thing Rosenthal saw. On the shirt was a picture of Corneliu Zelea Codreanu, a pre-WWII leader of the Romanian fascist Legion of Saint Michael the Archangel and the Iron Guard political party, which were both linked to the Nazi party.

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/59a09cf51e00003c00c5f5c7.jpeg
JUSTIN IDE / REUTERS
White nationalist leader Matthew Heimbach yells at the media outside the Charlottesville General Courthouse on Aug. 14.

Codreanu was the face behind pogroms in Romania. The large-scale violent riots killed tens of thousands of Romanian Jews during the 1930s leading up to the Holocaust.

“I recognized the name right away,” Rosenthal said. “You see something like this, you know, it brings back memories and I’m concerned about what could happen in this country,” he said.

The groups behind the Unite the Right rally are not the only ones of their kind. According to a February report from the Southern Poverty Law Center, at least 917 hate groups exist throughout the country.

Many Americans were concerned when President Donald Trump failed to immediately condemn white supremacy in responding to the Charlottesville violence. Instead, Trump blamed both sides of the protests ― a point he repeated on Tuesday.

“You cannot compare fascism and Nazis to the other people protesting. Maybe there are people on both sides who are misguided, but there is simply no comparison,” Rosenthal said.

And he reminded us that the consequences of going through horrific violence never really end. “It’s 70 years after the war and it still has a tremendous impact on me,” he said. “It’s something I’ll never forget and that’ll always be with me as long as I live.”

CORRECTION: Due to an editing error, the number of Jews killed by the Iron Guard was significantly overstated in an earlier version of the story. The individual pogroms that killed thousands and tens of thousands of Jews in Romania during World War II were carried out by official Romanian and German forces.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/this-holocaust-survivor-noticed-a-detail-in-charlottesville-you-might-have-missed_us_59a09bf8e4b05710aa5c3feb
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 07:50 pm
Seriously, I would never accuse or even suspect Finn of harboring Nazi or white supremacist sympathies. I've always seen his conservatism as pretty much in the classic free market mold, with a detectable libertarian accent — hardly tenets of National Socialism, Peronism, or any other variety of Fascism.
Finn wrote:
The same thing is going on in this forum. It's pernicious and must be resisted.

Now I've got to agree with Finn here, Godwin's Law or no Godwin's Law. You make a better argument if you don't accuse someone of being a crypto-Nazi.
emmett grogan
 
  4  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 08:00 pm
@hightor,
Cuz lord knows we need to be careful of Nazi sensibilities.
0 Replies
 
emmett grogan
 
  2  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 08:09 pm

Questions Over Trump's Mental Stability Bring Attention to the 25th Amendment


Is President Donald Trump mentally unfit for his office?
By Mark Z. Barabak / Los Angeles Times
August 27, 2017, 12:41 PM GMT

Posted with permission from Tribune Content Agency

Is President Donald Trump crazy?

Not can-you-believe-he-really-said-that? crazy. Certifiably-mentally-unfit-to-serve-as-president crazy.

It's an outlandish assertion — insulting, really — and a measure of the antipathy of Trump's critics that some, including members of Congress, have seriously raised the subject. Which brings us to the 25th Amendment.

Born of the Cold War and enacted after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, the language amounts to a bit of technical housekeeping appended to the Constitution. It outlines the presidential line of succession, including procedures in the event, as the amendment states, the chief executive "is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office."

With impeachment of Trump an exceeding long shot — given the GOP's firm grip on Congress — a small chorus of Democrats has suggested an even less likely antidote to a presidency they cannot and will not abide: removing Trump on the grounds he is mentally unsound.

Democratic Rep. Zoe Lofgren of California has introduced a resolution urging Trump to seek a medical and psychiatric evaluation to determine his fitness for office. Democratic Rep. Ted Lieu of California has talked up legislation requiring a psychiatrist be stationed at the White House.

The president's spokeswoman has brushed aside questions about Trump's mental health as beneath contempt.

"Ridiculous and outrageous" and unworthy of a response, said press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, responding to a suggestion by Sen. Bob Corker, a Republican of Tennessee, that Trump "has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability, nor some of the competence, that he needs to demonstrate in order to be successful."

Still, the 25th Amendment is having a moment. Searches spiked on Google during the president's fiery brimstone appearance at a rally Tuesday night in Phoenix.

Q: What does the 25th Amendment say?

A: If a president dies, resigns or is removed from office, the vice president steps up and takes over. The new president then nominates a vice president, subject to congressional approval. The amendment also allows a president to transfer power to the vice president if he is temporarily incapacitated, during surgery, for instance, then reclaim those powers afterward.

Q: What does that have to do with Trump and his mental health?

A: Patience, please. That's addressed in the fourth and final section. In the event the president cannot fulfill his constitutional duties and cannot or will not step aside, the amendment outlines a procedure for his ouster.

Under the law, the vice president and a majority of the president's Cabinet may declare the president incapacitated by notifying the leaders of the House and Senate. At that point, the vice president assumes the duties of the president.

Q: President Mike Pence, here we come!

A: Look, the chances of any of this taking place, short of some medical crisis, are somewhere between exceedingly improbable and utterly impossible.

Q: But didn't President Trump say just the other night, "Most people think I'm crazy to have done this. And I think they're right!"

A: Please.

Q: OK. But what if?

A: If the vice president and Cabinet declared the president incapacitated, he could reclaim his powers by writing to legislative leaders and declaring his ability to do the job. If the vice president and Cabinet members object, the matter then gets kicked over to Congress, which has 21 days to act. It would require a two-thirds vote in both chambers to strip the president of his powers, once and for all.

Q: You mentioned the Cold War and JFK.

A: A bit of history: The Constitution makes it pretty clear the vice president is next in line to the president. But there was some question about how exactly that worked, and quite a kerfuffle in the 1840s when President William Henry Harrison died and Vice President John Tyler took over.

But we're not going there.

Fast-forward to the Eisenhower administration. After a 1955 heart attack and other serious maladies, the president worried about the transfer of power if he were temporarily incapacitated, especially given hair-trigger relations with the Soviet Union. President Eisenhower worked out an informal arrangement with his vice president, Richard Nixon, in case he needed to temporarily cede power. Still, Eisenhower thought it better to have some mechanism explicitly spelled out in the Constitution.

After Kennedy's assassination in November 1963, Democratic Sen. Birch Bayh of Indiana took up the matter in his capacity as chairman of the Senate subcommittee on constitutional amendments. Congress passed the 25th Amendment in July 1965 and it was ratified on Feb. 10, 1967.

Q: Has the 25th Amendment ever come into play?

A: The amendment guided the process when President Nixon chose Rep. Gerald Ford of Michigan to replace Vice President Spiro Agnew after his resignation in October 1973. Ford, in turn, became president when Nixon quit in August 1974. Ford then chose former New York Gov. Nelson Rockefeller as his vice president.

In 1987, aides to President Ronald Reagan weighed the possibility of invoking the amendment when concerns grew about his listless and detached behavior in his second term. The prospect was soon dismissed, however, when chief of staff Howard Baker deemed Reagan fit to serve.

Separately, on three different occasions Reagan and President George W. Bush voluntarily transferred power to their vice presidents when they had surgery under general anesthesia.

Q: So the mental capacity clause has never been tested?

A: No. But it's great for stirring up Trump's opposition.

Click here for reuse options!
2017 Los Angeles Times
Los Angeles Times
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 08:13 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
the president wrote:
But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides.

How does he know there were "very fine people" on both sides? As far as I know he hasn't been able to produce even one of these "very fine people". You know, the kind of "very fine people" who decide to attend a pro-Nazi white supremacist demonstration — or break one up. I can see it now, Trump with a "very fine" person on either side of him, one covered in fascist symbols holding a shield and a Tiki torch and the other one masked, all in black, holding a truncheon. Voila!

Trump was referring to people who aren't neo-nazis but do oppose the removal of the statue. He might have been wrong about such people being at this rally. Clearly sometimes he makes mistakes over details like that. But he believes that some of them were there, and such people do exist even if they weren't at the rally.

And Trump may be right. Some of those people may well have been at the rally.

Trump's intent was obvious and anyone who tries to pretend that he meant anything else should be ashamed of themselves for deliberately misconstruing his words.


hightor wrote:
Um, kind of difficult to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. He only needs to produce one "very fine person" from each side. That should be a lot easier than trying to track down every single thug and prove that he's not a "very fine person".

I saw an interview with a militia type who was at the rally with his gun to ensure that people's free speech rights were not violated. He did not agree with the neo-nazis. He was only there to protect other people's rights. I submit him as a case of a good guy on the right.


hightor wrote:
His statement said nothing. It meant nothing. He was talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Trump said that the peaceful protesters on both sides were good people. The neo-nazis were bad people. And the violent liberals were bad people. That is clearly saying something and it clearly means something.

Denouncing two different groups for wrongdoing is hardly talking out of both sides of your mouth. It is possible for more than one group of people to be wrong at the same time.

And although "whether a given group is good or bad" is probably a matter of opinion, I'd say Trump got it completely right.


hightor wrote:
He back-tracked after categorically denouncing the white supremacists the day before.

He did no such thing. That he says liberals were wrong to violently violate people's free speech rights does not mean he is backtracking on his condemnation of neo-nazis.

It is possible to say that liberals and neo-nazis are both wrong. I say such things all the time.


hightor wrote:
Oh, the poor guy. So misunderstood. Silly liberals can't seem to understand that a disinclination to offend white supremacists is in no way a defense of white supremacists. He just doesn't like to hurt people's feelings.

I don't think it's a case of liberals not understanding. They are deliberately misconstruing his words in order to demonize him. It's a standard liberal tactic. Liberalism really is a vile ideology.


hightor wrote:
It's pretty clear that he's undisciplined, impetuous, and thin-skinned. Those aren't qualities I particularly admire in anyone, especially a head of state.

Nobody's perfect.


hightor wrote:
"Refusing to be controlled by them" is a far cry from actually outsmarting them.

I am confident that Trump will succeed in destroying liberalism as a political force in America. Given the abuses of liberalism I am sure the nation will be better off for it.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 08:15 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
To be fair, some of the people who are very critical of the antifa demonstrators see them as (ironically) employing "Brown Shirt" tactics to deny the Nazi sympathizers their rights to free expression.

Such condemnation is justified.


hightor wrote:
But then they fall into the "same tactics=same ideology" mistake. The suppression of others' right to speak is not exclusive to fascism, per se.

No such mistake. No one has accused liberals of having the same ideology as neo-nazis. Liberals are condemned for their own wrongdoing, which includes their use of violence to suppress free speech.


hightor wrote:
The suppression of others' right to speak is not exclusive to fascism, per se.

Indeed. Clearly a large number of liberals hate free speech despite not being fascists.

I would also argue that it is possible for a fascist to be in favor of free speech.


hightor wrote:
USAmericans also like to differentiate between insurgent groups in foreign conflicts. If the USA supports the particular government the armed opposition will be referred to as "terrorists" or "guerrillas". But if it's a government we're not friendly with the rebels will conveniently be deemed "freedom fighters".

Well if a terrorist or guerrilla is opposed to a legitimate democracy, they probably aren't fighting for freedom.
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  2  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 08:15 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Seriously, I would never accuse or even suspect Finn of harboring Nazi or white supremacist sympathies.


Neither would I. That would be downright silly, not to mention incredibly stupid and insulting. I don't believe anyone here would. The article I posted above has nothing to do with President Trump. Although I'm not a Jew, all I wanted to do was just to post the Jewish point of view regarding Charlettesville.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 08:20 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
I didn't take it at all until you quoted it,I've got him on ignore. Finn is a liar whose lies have caught up with him so he's lashing out blindly. That's what they do when the mask slips and they get found out.

You can't point out a single example of him making any untrue points.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 08:21 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
izzythepush wrote:
I didn't take it at all until you quoted it,I've got him on ignore. Finn is a liar whose lies have caught up with him so he's lashing out blindly. That's what they do when the mask slips and they get found out.

Yup

You as well cannot point out a single falsehood in any of his points.
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 08:26 pm
@wmwcjr,
I wrote:
I don't believe anyone here would.


Well, on second thought I guess a few would.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 27 Aug, 2017 09:29 pm
Perhaps off topic.
Just heard a great anecdote in an audio file with Louis CK and some others. One who is Spanish told that when Fawlty Towers was shown in Spain, the "Manuel" character (in his voice-over) used the accent of a stupid Mexican.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 28 Aug, 2017 01:01 am
@blatham,
It didn't go down well in Spain, at the time I heard they called him Mario and made him Italian, but it still didn't work.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Mon 28 Aug, 2017 01:07 am
@hightor,
Anyone who describes anti fascists as thugs has more than a little Nazi inside them. Finn has shown where his sympathies lie and they're not with those protesting against the swastika.

His mask is slipping, he's going into meltdown which is why he's adopting such a patronising tone.,

Anyone so desperate for attention that they would lie about having heart bypass surgery isn't someone whose word can be trusted on anything.
 

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