192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
snood
 
  7  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 06:14 pm
Our stalwart president just pardoned the racist criminal Sheriff Arpaio.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/348061-trump-pardons-arpaio
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 06:16 pm
@old europe,
old Europe wrote:

I was citing Brandenburg v. Ohio since you were asking for a current held ruling that shows there is such a thing as "unprotected hate speech." While a lot of hate speech is protected, saying that

Baldimo wrote:
there is no such things as "unprotected hate speech"


seems pretty obviously false, since hate speech that fits the Brandenburg test is clearly unprotected.

It also seems that saying "freely made unprotected hate speech has consequences" - with unprotected used as a qualifier - is a correct statement. I don't know if any kind of Cantwell's hate speech will fit the Brandenburg test, but that is not a claim that was made.


The fact that the unprotected speech was used in the context of overall hate filled message is immaterial.

The Brandenburg Test looks for speech that is inciting or producing violence or criminal action, not hatred. If the KKK leader had left off the comment suggesting revengence was in order, he would have had no problem with the law no matter how many hateful derogatory racial slurs he uttered.

You are simply wrong if you are suggesting that there is any speech that is limited to spreading, endorsing, justifying, perpetuating or glorifying hatred that is unprotected by the 1st Amendment and you are wrong here to use the KKK leader's statement as evidence of your assertion that there is hate speech that it is unprotected. Doing so is like trying to make the case that if a bank robber stands 4' 11" and is arrested, tried and convicted that this is an example of how being small is illegal.

There is unprotected speech, (we are all well aware of this) and in this case, it was speech determined to be inciting violence. If it had nothing to do with hatred it would have been unprotected and the fact that it had everything to do with hatred is, again, immaterial.
Yours is a common argument being made that attempts to assert that hate speech is not protected by the 1st Amendment. I'm not sure what the intent of this argument is but it is, in essence, wishful thinking.

Obviously, all speech has consequences and hateful speech is no exception, but one consequence that is prohibited by the Constitution is government censure.

Another argument being currently made with frequency is very often framed as something like "Hate speech may be free of government censorship, but it's not free of consequences," and the context is the justification of violence as a consequence. Fortunately, that is another consequence that is prohibited by our laws regardless of how justified anyone believes it to be.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 06:18 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

snood wrote:

Some people still unfortunately seem to be operating under the misapprehension that questions about Trump's mental health and fitness for office are somehow a stretch.


Some people continue to make ridiculous and unsupported claims about his mental health. It is both unfortunate and odious.

Odious was to call an American president "Kenyan". That was pretty odious, and Trump did it for years despite evidence to the contrary.


It was odious. And your point is what? That since he has been odious it excused the same in others when it is directed at him?
glitterbag
 
  5  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 06:18 pm
@snood,
Just another example of Trump's campaign to nullify the court system. Shame on Trump.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 06:19 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Just because you happen to disagree with Robinson doesn't make him an immoral journalist. And as far as immoral journalism goes, the Trump supporters have a lot to answer for. But by all means keep ranting.


Obviously. It's not my disagreement with him that makes him a yellow journalist, it is his actions. I didn't ask for your permission, but thanks anyway.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  5  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 06:22 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

snood wrote:

Some people still unfortunately seem to be operating under the misapprehension that questions about Trump's mental health and fitness for office are somehow a stretch.


Some people continue to make ridiculous and unsupported claims about his mental health. It is both unfortunate and odious.

Odious was to call an American president "Kenyan". That was pretty odious, and Trump did it for years despite evidence to the contrary.


You remember, right, when Finn condemned the rascits who promoted the idea that Obama was a foreigner, and a Kenyan and wasn't really an educated man. Don't you, don't you......yeah neither do I.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:01 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

snood wrote:

Some people still unfortunately seem to be operating under the misapprehension that questions about Trump's mental health and fitness for office are somehow a stretch.


Some people continue to make ridiculous and unsupported claims about his mental health. It is both unfortunate and odious.

Odious was to call an American president "Kenyan". That was pretty odious, and Trump did it for years despite evidence to the contrary.


You remember, right, when Finn condemned the rascits who promoted the idea that Obama was a foreigner, and a Kenyan and wasn't really an educated man. Don't you, don't you......yeah neither do I.


Well, if you were to search through the A2K archives you would find that I stated at least once (and probably more often) that I didn't question Obama's natural citizenship and what's more I didn't think it made a difference if he had been born in Kenya, Indonesia or Timbuktu.

I'm pretty sure I didn't condemn the Birthers as racist because it doesn't seem to me to be, at all, a racist conspiracy theory. Just because the man had a Kenyan father doesn't mean that every criticism or attack made on him was racist. It was an effort to delegitimize his presidency and I imagine there were racists involved in it but the claim itself is not inherently racist. I imagine that you find the assertion that he was born in Kenya to be evidence of racism. He did have a Kenyan father you know. Would it have been less racist if the claim was that he was born in Brazil or Sweden? A similar, but far less vigorous effort was made to assert that McCain was not qualified to be president because he was born in Panama. Was that racist?

I don't recall anyone making the case that he wasn't really educated, so I'm quite sure you won't find any posts of mine in which I criticized the claim which, on its face, is absurd. I do seem to recall that there were fools who claimed that anyone who showed disdain for Obama for being an academic egghead was a racist, and you quite likely will find posts of mine wherein I mocked such idiots.

Finally, I was never obliged to counter every false and scurrilous claim made against Obama, any more than you are as respects Trump. If you think I had such a duty it only follows that you have the same concerning the president of whom you greatly disapprove. Should I bother to search the archives for evidence that you have failed in your duty?

Once again a member of the Clique is making foolish personal assertions about someone who is not a member (this time it's me) without any evidence to support them. I know you will refuse to make any effort to provide your evidence, but the burden of proof in mudslinging is on the slinger, not the target. I'm content in simply pointing out what a twit you are, and my evidence is this post of yours.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:28 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You must have been the last one chosen to play dodgeball when you were a kid. As I mentioned in my response to Oralboy, life is precious me none of us knows how much time we have left. I will tell you one thing that you can take to the bank, I will not be lamenting on my death bed that I didn't re-read your lengthy ponderous input more often. And you waste too much time posting here playing gotcha, you ain't good at it.
snood
 
  4  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:38 pm
@glitterbag,
Lemme help you with that gobbledygook, GB.

See, it's NOT because he's a phony, intolerant, pretentious know it all that he receives scorn from so many directions - it's because he's not a member of "The Clique".

It's NOT because he's so tediously, predictably WRONG about so many things and draws so many wrong conclusions from so many wrong assumptions that so many of us eschew reading his goofy book-length posts, it's because we just can't grasp his brilliance or refute his profound points.

His kneejerk defenses and defensiveness about whatever "odious" and despicable things come out of the disgrace in the white house are NOT what call his intellectual honesty into constant question, it's that all those people that disagree with him are just prejudiced liberals.

In fact, it's TOO EASY to get confused or forget about Finn's true, selfless, socially conscious and intellectual, giving nature, and just think he's an officious pain in the ass. I hope this clears it up for you a little.
Builder
 
  -4  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:40 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
And you waste too much time posting here playing gotcha, you ain't good at it.


Pot; kettle; black. Go get a life, woman. If you don't like wading through crap, why are you posting on this thread?

The question Americans should be asking, is how does a completely inexperienced entrepreneur end up as president? I was under the opine that one at least had to be a governator before running for high office.
snood
 
  4  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:43 pm
@Builder,
Quote:
If you don't like wading through crap, why are you posting on this thread?


She, like I, wades through the crap to get to all the posters here who say interesting, informative and entertaining things. Don't feel bad. You probably would've thought of the answer all by yourself if you had just given it a couple of beats.
emmett grogan
 
  5  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:45 pm
@snood,
Arpaio was so loved by Maricopa County, particularly if they were white and older than 60.

A truly despicable excuse for a human. He really needs jailing.
0 Replies
 
emmett grogan
 
  4  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:50 pm
@old europe,
Quote:

Baldimo wrote:

there is no such things as "unprotected hate speech"


demo's .05% right: hate speech as defined by law is unprotected free speech.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  4  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:51 pm
@snood,
Well I'm torn, I'm not sure if I need to report to the Empress of women or our Clique leader. Who is it this week? Not the Empress of course, our leader! Why has he forsaken us.......well maybe he has a life other than this.....you reckon?. (As my mother-in-law used to say)
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -1  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:51 pm
@snood,
As usual, you're selective in your responses. Here; I'll post it again for you sloooooow learners and poor readers.

Quote:
The question Americans should be asking, is how does a completely inexperienced entrepreneur end up as president? I was under the opine that one at least had to be a governator before running for high office.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  5  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:54 pm
@Builder,
Builder wrote:


Pot; kettle; black. Go get a life, woman. If you don't like wading through crap, why are you posting on this thread?



I didn't say wading thru crap, if I want any crap out of you, I'll squeeze your head. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 07:54 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
Lemme help you with that gobbledygook, GB.

See, it's NOT because he's a phony, intolerant, pretentious know it all that he receives scorn from so many directions - it's because he's not a member of "The Clique".

It's NOT because he's so tediously, predictably WRONG about so many things and draws so many wrong conclusions from so many wrong assumptions that so many of us eschew reading his goofy book-length posts, it's because we just can't grasp his brilliance or refute his profound points.

His kneejerk defenses and defensiveness about whatever "odious" and despicable things come out of the disgrace in the white house are NOT what call his intellectual honesty into constant question, it's that all those people that disagree with him are just prejudiced liberals.

In fact, it's TOO EASY to get confused or forget about Finn's true, selfless, socially conscious and intellectual, giving nature, and just think he's an officious pain in the ass. I hope this clears it up for you a little.

Good grief. If Finn is supposedly wrong, how come you can't point out even one of these supposed errors?

The fact is, he is making good points and the liberals here who are attacking him are doing so solely because they don't like the way that facts and reality contradict their leftist delusions.

* Note my term "liberals here who are attacking him". I do not mean to lump the liberals who respond with intelligent arguments in with all the name-callers.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 08:01 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
He did it for years and years, Finn. Did you complain much about his odiousness? Or is your outrage terminally one-sided?

His Lardship the Russian Puppet is a lunatic. And a journalist writing about it is only stating the truth, at least as he sees it. If you want to rant about odious journalism, take a hard look at FAUX News. You'll find plenty deserving of your ire there.
0 Replies
 
emmett grogan
 
  4  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 08:04 pm
All The Swastikas And Broken Glass Since Charlottesville

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/anti-semitism-charlottesville-shattered-glass_us_599dd9f0e4b0d97c40011880?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

In the two weeks since white supremacists marched on Charlottesville, more than two dozen anti-Semitic incidents have occurred across the U.S.
By Christopher Mathias


On Aug. 14 — two days after the nation watched in horror as hundreds of well-armed neo-Nazis and other white supremacists held a violent rally in Charlottesville, Virginia — a 17-year-old boy in downtown Boston allegedly picked up a rock and threw it through one of the six tall glass towers that make up the New England Holocaust Memorial.

Each tower is made of 22 glass panels and engraved with thousands of numbers representing the 6 million Jews murdered by Nazis during World War II. The rock reduced one of those panels to tiny glass shards strewn across the sidewalk, later swept into dustpans by city workers.
Keith Bedford/Boston Globe via Getty Images
Passers-by look at glass shards on the ground from the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston after it was vandalized on Aug. 14.

A day later, an unknown person shattered the glass doors at the K’hal Adas Yereim synagogue in Queens, New York — just hours after the nation watched in disbelief as the president of the United States described the white supremacists in Charlottesville as “fine people.” The synagogue is less than 3 miles from the president’s childhood home.

A K’hal Adas Yereim member sent a photo of the shattered doors to the Documenting Hate project, a partnership between ProPublica and numerous news outlets, including HuffPost. A New York City Police Department spokesperson says the department is investigating the incident, but won’t say whether a suspect has been identified.

Across the country in Alameda, California, on Aug. 17, a security camera captured another unidentified vandal throwing rocks at Temple Israel, shattering multiple windows.

Since the rally in Charlottesville, the Anti-Defamation League has tracked dozens of anti-Semitic incidents across the United States. It’s the sight of shattered glass at places of Jewish remembrance and worship, though, that is fraught with a terrifying poignance.

On the night of Nov. 9, 1938, and into the next day, mobs in Germany massacred nearly 100 Jews and smashed the windows of Jewish businesses and synagogues. The night became known as Kristallnacht ― “The Night of Broken Glass” ― and was a preview of the Nazi effort to exterminate Jews from the Earth.

At the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville two weeks ago, HuffPost witnessed Americans celebrating this Nazi legacy, proudly waving swastika flags and wearing T-shirts quoting Adolf Hitler. They chanted “Jews will not replace us!” and the Third Reich slogan “Blood and soil!” They carried signs with messages like “The Jewish Media Is Going Down” and “The Goyim Know.”

Worshippers at Charlottesville’s Congregation Beth Israel watched in terror as neo-Nazis paraded by screaming “There’s the synagogue!” and “Sieg Heil!” Online threats to burn down the synagogue forced congregants to remove Torahs, including a Holocaust scroll, from the building as a precaution.

“This is 2017 in the United States of America,” the congregation’s president, Alan Zimmerman, later wrote on ReformJudaism.org.

The anti-Semitic aims of the rally — which the Anti-Defamation League has called the largest of its kind in over a decade — were apparent the day before it started, when organizer and white nationalist leader Richard Spencer published his “Charlottesville statement.” This malevolent manifesto described Jews as an “ethno-religious people distinct from Europeans” who are resistant to assimilation and are hostile to non-Jews.

Now, the Anti-Defamation League is concerned that the large display of hatred in Charlottesville “could inspire copycat incidents or acts of hate against Jews or Jewish institutions in other parts of the country,” the group said in a statement.

The ADL provided a lengthy list to HuffPost of anti-Semitic incidents over the past two weeks. A spokesman for the group says the number of incidents is “higher than usual” when compared with other recent two-week periods.

On Aug. 13, a man made an obscene gesture to a security camera outside a Philadelphia synagogue. He then urinated on the synagogue.

On Aug. 13, someone drew a swastika on the door of a woman’s home in Manistee County, Michigan.

On Aug. 14, a 17-year-old boy allegedly threw a rock at the New England Holocaust Memorial in Boston, shattering one of the memorial’s glass panels. (In June, a 21-year-old man was arrested for doing the same thing.)

On Aug. 15, a 37-year-old man was arrested for damaging flowers that had been left at the memorial.

On Aug. 15, the anti-Semitic slur “KIKE” was spray-painted on a building in Washington, D.C.

On Aug. 15, a swastika and the words “WAR IS COMING!” were spray-painted on a wooden neighborhood fence in Bakersfield, California.

On Aug. 15, a swastika was found painted on a high school in Santa Rosa, California.

On Aug. 15 or 16, someone spray-painted swastikas on the driveway of a home in Lakewood, Ohio. Earlier that week, someone smashed in the windows of that family’s car.

On Aug. 15, someone shattered the glass doors at a synagogue in Queens.

On Aug. 16, a swastika and the initials “SS” were spray-painted on palm trees in Miami.

On Aug. 16, a large swastika and the word “Trump” were spray-painted near Goleta, California.

On Aug. 16, a swastika was painted on a restaurant in New Milford, Connecticut.

On Aug. 17, an unidentified vandal threw rocks at the glass windows of a synagogue in Alameda, California, shattering them.

On Aug. 18, a swastika was discovered on a sign in a park in Conejo Valley, California.

On Aug. 18, a neo-Nazi hung banners reading “UnJew Humanity” and “Jewish Financing Available” from a highway overpass near Springfield, Oregon.

On Aug. 18, 15 swastikas and messages including “Jews die” were found spray-painted at a skate park in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

On Aug. 18, swastikas were spray-painted on a sidewalk near a bus stop in Bellevue, Washington.

On Aug. 19, swastikas and the word “Trump” were spray-painted on a street in Murfreesboro, Tennessee.

On Aug. 19 or 20, someone spray-painted a swastika on a sidewalk outside an Orthodox synagogue in Scranton, Pennsylvania.

On Aug. 19 or 20, anti-Semitic flyers bearing the name of the white supremacist group American Vanguard were posted at multiple locations in Asbury Park, New Jersey.

On Aug. 20, a family in Westerville, Ohio, discovered the word “Jew” written in shaving cream near their driveway. Their neighbors also found Nazi flyers in their front lawns.

On Aug. 21, a swastika was found carved into the green at a golf course in Lakeville, Minnesota.

On Aug. 21, a swastika was painted on a sidewalk near an elementary school in Las Vegas.

On Aug. 21, swastikas and a bomb threat were discovered carved into the walls of a Washington State University dormitory in Pullman, Washington, prompting an evacuation.

On Aug. 22, a 24-year-old man was arrested for spray-painting swastikas, “Heil Hitler” and other messages specifically targeting Jews and blacks at multiple locations in Coatesville, Pennsylvania. The man claimed to be associated with white supremacist groups.

The ADL cautions that it is impossible to directly link these anti-Semitic incidents to what happened in Charlottesville “without knowing the full motives of the perpetrators behind the attacks.”

Still, the past two weeks have brought rising American anti-Semitism into focus. The ADL says anti-Semitic incidents surged by 34 percent in 2016 compared with the previous year. In the first quarter of 2017, the number of incidents jumped 86 percent compared with the same period in 2016.

The FBI also maintains data on hate crimes and, while its figures are incomplete, they show that Jews were the most-targeted religious minority in the U.S. between 2010 and 2015.

And Jonathan Greenblatt, head of the ADL, told HuffPost this week that his organization has also tracked a rise in recruitment and membership among white supremacist organizations.

“One of the most significant things about Charlottesville is that it showed there’s a young generation of white supremacists willing to openly display their hate and anti-Semitism in public and in full view,” he said.

“It’s alarming to see a younger generation that’s not aged Klansmen hiding behind white hoods,” he continued, adding that “the majority of attendees appeared to be young, in their 20s and unafraid to show their faces.”

These young white supremacists, he said, have been “emboldened by this climate in the country, in an environment where the president essentially validated them and the ‘fine people’ among their ranks.”


https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/59a07a251e00003c00c5f553.jpeg?ops=scalefit_970_noupscale

Eze Amos/Stringer/Reuters
James Alex Fields Jr. (second from left, with a shield) stands at the rally in Charlottesville.

Donald Trump won the presidency despite racist comments throughout his campaign. As a candidate and now as president, he has routinely signaled his support of white nationalism and been slow to condemn terror committed by white, right-wing extremists.

The Charlottesville rally also concluded with a terror attack. Twenty-year-old James Alex Fields Jr., a member of the white supremacist group Vanguard America, is accused of driving a car through a crowd of counterprotesters. The attack killed 32-year-old Heather Heyer and injured 19 others.

In an interview with ABC News in the following days, two of Fields’ former classmates recalled visiting a Nazi concentration camp in Dachau, Germany, with him in 2015.

Standing in a place where Nazis had systematically murdered at least 28,000 people, most of them Jews, Fields’ friends recalled him issuing a chilling statement: “This is where the magic happened.”

America does not do a good job of tracking incidents of hate and bias. We need your help to create a database of such incidents across the country, so we all know what’s going on.

Christopher Mat




Nazis just gotta break glass.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 08:11 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
It's amazing that anyone is still defending him at this point, although many have begun taking small steps back.

I'm more than happy to defend Trump.


Blickers wrote:
Despite all the daily hoopla Trump likes to create with his tweets, the story has been apparent for some time: Trump's been laundering money for the Russians for quite a few years now, that's why he wouldn't release his tax returns. Mueller suspects it, Mueller has already got several of Trump's associates to turn evidence, and when the story comes out Trump must leave office.

In the unlikely event that such a thing happened, Trump will still be our president for a full eight years. The Republicans will still hold the White House for a full 20 years by nominating candidates who share in Trump's vision for America. And even after 20 years out of power, the Democrats will still not return to power until they purge their liberals and instead nominate a Trump-lite to be their standard bearer.


Blickers wrote:
In return, Trump is thrashing around trying to create diversion and hopefully fire Mueller, although that will not block the investigation continuing. And to their credit, the Republicans are not going to allow Trump to fire Mueller anyway.

There's nothing that anyone can do to prevent Trump from issuing mass pardons.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.47 seconds on 03/14/2025 at 07:32:18