192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
snood
 
  8  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 06:28 am
"Sein Kampf" translates roughly to 'His Struggle'
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH7gu18VYAAiY2R.jpg
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  8  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 08:06 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

Finn's got a sick antipathy toward Eugene Robinson, an outspoken Pulitzer Prize winning Black journalist who is very often on MSNBC. As ever, Finn is intellectually disingenuous here - not to mention hypocritical. He trashes Robinson and defends crazy ass Trump.


Finn hopes that Robinson is a radical, but Robinson is a clear headed, even handed journalist who is well respected. I read his columns in the Washington Post, the man is gifted in laying out the issues. Finn's position is much like an old Marx Brother film "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes".
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 08:07 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
And I might add, if you actually read the news, there have been mental health professionals who have serious questions about Trump's mental health and stability, and professional associations are changing have changed some standards about speaking out because of those serious concerns.
farmerman
 
  8  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 09:14 am
@MontereyJack,
There was a discussion on a local talk station (all talk stations are right wing mass media usually primed to pass through only GOP propaganda). This station had a PM local talk station that had early extolled Trumpty dumpty's virtues and intelligence. UNTIL NOW. The station has recently and abbruptly been discussing Trumps "fitness to serve"

I see the Koch's cooking up a major Trumpity revolt in which they will unseat his Lardness as a grand strategy to ascend Pence to the throne.

Lash
 
  1  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 09:21 am
@farmerman,
Bet you are right. Pence is their man.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 11:20 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

The fact is, everybody all the time is assessing people they come in contact with and basing their actions on those assessments, even tho they have no professional qualificztions to do so.


Yes, but everyone isn't a journalist writing for a major newspaper, and if you and I set up our opinions to imply they are based on anything other than our personal observations, even if we provide a throw off denial of having credentials, we will be acting at least disingenuously and at worst, weaselly. - like Robinson.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 11:25 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

And I might add, if you actually read the news, there have been mental health professionals who have serious questions about Trump's mental health and stability, and professional associations are changing have changed some standards about speaking out because of those serious concerns.


Who fits the description of a mental health professional? A comfort dog trainer? A Prozac salesman? No ethical professional will diagnose someone they have never examined or treated on TV or in a newspaper. None. What associations are changing their standards to allow this unethical but politically potent practice?
wmwcjr
 
  3  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 01:00 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Mental health and mental illness are very real. In other words, mental illness is not imaginary or even the result of bad attitudes. However, I don't have much faith in some, if not many, of the practitioners. I saw a clinical psychologist when I was a teenager. I saw a psychiatrist in my twenties. Both of them were incompetent frauds.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 01:14 pm
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:

Mental health and mental illness are very real. In other words, mental illness is not imaginary or even the result of bad attitudes. However, I don't have much faith in some, if not many, of the practitioners. I saw a clinical psychologist when I was a teenager. I saw a psychiatrist in my twenties. Both of them were incompetent frauds.


Yes, they are and millions of people suffer from mental health issues and the social stigma attached to them which is why it is low for a columnist to cavalierly and without credentials suggest that anyone, let alone POTUS, has issues in furtherance of his political agenda. Robinson isn't concerned for Trump or the nation, he simply wants to spread the meme that Trump is mentally ill and the 25th Amendment needs to be invoked to remove him from office.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  7  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 03:20 pm
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Thank you Bob Dylan
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  8  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 04:55 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Well, evidently Trump is unstable. He can't stay the course on any issue; he keeps peddling delusions, etc. So the symptoms are there for all to see. You are right though that only a group of proffesionals could make a precise diagnostic. And even that is not a given. Psychiatrists often disagree; it's not an exact science.

In the hypothesis that the president (any president) is mentally unfit for office, how do you propose to go about ascerting that? The founders knew nothing about psychiatry. So I guess it would be a classic impeachement process, ie a political process. If two thirds of congress votes that the president is unfit, then he is removed from office.

And if it's a political (rather than medical) process, journalists are perfectly in their right to speak about it.

emmett grogan
 
  4  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 07:42 pm
Travails of a "peaceful free speech" advocate:


Christopher Cantwell Stuck In Jail After Surrendering To Police
Vice News featured the white supremacist in a segment on the racist rallies in Charlottesville.

By Ryan Grenoble


White supremacist Christopher Cantwell wasn’t granted bond Thursday, a day after he surrendered to police in Virginia, where he was wanted for multiple felonies.

Per the Charlottesville Daily Progress, Cantwell doesn’t yet have an attorney. Once he does, however, he can request a bond hearing.

Cantwell earned national attention earlier this month for his role in a torch-lit march on the University of Virginia, where he and hundreds of others shouted Nazi and anti-Semitic slogans, and in the next day’s deadly violence in Charlottesville.

A Vice News documentary about the racist rally prominently featured Cantwell, who at one point amid the chaos pledged to “f**king kill these people if we have to.” Later, he proudly displayed the weapons he’d brought with him to Charlottesville, including rifles, handguns and a knife.

Days later, however, Cantwell uploaded a video to YouTube of himself tearfully telling viewers he was wanted by the police and asking for their advice.

“I don’t want to [go to jail],” he said in the video, crying. “I don’t think I should. I honestly think that I have been law-abiding.”

The University of Virginia Police obtained three warrants for Cantwell, reports NBC12: two felony counts of illegal use of tear gas, phosgene and other gases, and one felony count of malicious bodily injury by means of any caustic substance or agent or use of any explosive or fire.

Cantwell told The New York Times this weekend he believes the warrants were issued because he pepper-sprayed a counterprotester, an action he claims was in self-defense.

According to the University of Virginia Police, Cantwell’s next scheduled court appearance is on Oct. 12.

ossobucotemp
 
  3  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 08:43 pm
@Olivier5,
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/24/trump-family-history-confederate-statues-215525

This was an interesting article to me, re how Trump got this way: Daddy was very similar.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 24 Aug, 2017 10:22 pm
@emmett grogan,
Just seen the video of Cantwell crying... So funny.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 12:44 am
@ossobucotemp,
Demolishing a Coney Island landmark to make a few hundred thousand bucks... Now that's classy!
wmwcjr
 
  2  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 03:12 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Just seen the video of Cantwell crying... So funny.


A courageous, inspiring example of the master race! Rolling Eyes
Olivier5
 
  5  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 03:42 am
@wmwcjr,
wmwcjr wrote:

Quote:
Just seen the video of Cantwell crying... So funny.

A courageous, inspiring example of the master race! Rolling Eyes

This guy wil be called "the crying nazi" forever... Hahaha.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 08:43 am
@Olivier5,
The Founders didn't write the 25th Amendment, congressional lawyers and members did in 1965 spurred on by the Kennedy assassination and the possibility that he might have remained alive albeit in a brain dead state.

Section 4 of the 25th Amendment provides a specific course of action that is to be followed:

Quote:
Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[3]


It doesn't prescribe the means by which the VP and Cabinet members are to support their claim that the VP is unfit, but you can sure as hell bet it won't be on the say so of a WaPo columnist or, for that matter, an army of quack partisan "mental health care professionals" providing diagnoses on the web.

The Amendment was properly crafted to avoid, as best as possible, political influence. First of all, it takes multiple, presumably loyal members of the Executive branch to begin the process, and a VP who really wants to be president can't do it alone. Secondly, the president can contest it, and I would imagine most would provide a report from their doctor supporting their claim of fitness. The VP and Cabinet would then have to decide to try again which addresses the possibility of a hack doctor for the president but also requires gravitas on the part of those wanting to oust him. By this time the nation will be weighing in on the process and any effort that appears to be politically driven will result in a public outcry. I would imagine that during this process and prior to the second submission an agreement might be worked out whereby the president submitted to one or more independent doctors. Only if the second submission was made would congress get involved and the possibility of rank politics driving the final decision arise. However while the "high crimes and misdemeanors" is sufficently ambiguous to allow for the impeachment process to be purely political the same is not so with the 25th Amendment, and as little faith I have in the integrity of members of Congress, it difficult for me to imagine two-thirds of them be willing to turn a process like this into a political circus. If they did, and, at least two-thirds of the American people were convinced the president was truly nuts the congressional circus performers would have hell to pay.

It is impossible to imagine the process starting based on the supposed signs that you, Robinson and other opponents of the president claim to observe. It is almost impossible to imagine the process would start if multiple legitimate doctors could not agree that the president was unfit. The Amendment contemplates a president being unambiguously unable to serve, but wisely makes it difficult to abuse for political purposes.

The only way I can see the VP the Cabinet and two-thirds of both Houses of Congress conspiring together to use this amendment to oust a president who is not truly physically or mentally unfit to serve is if he had revealed himself to be a tyrant or a tyrant in the making, and if that were the case such an effort would never succeed, since a tyrant would never allow it to.

Journalists and citizens have the right to speak about almost anything under the sun so Robinson doing so is not an issue of free speech or freedom of the press, and no one is attempting to see him censored. If he wants to use his position to be an irresponsible political hack, he's free to, and everyone else is free to criticize him for it.

If he wants to waste space in his paper ruminating about a process that, at present and in, at least, the near future has zero chance of being implemented he certainly can, but he is fantasizing and indulging the fantasies of his rabid readers. No amount of buzz generated by Robinson or other Trump opponents is going to lead to the VP and Cabinet invoking the 25th Amendment, but it is nasty mudslinging. He is trying to perpetuate a meme that the President of the United States is mentally ill and unfit to serve in office. It is classic yellow journalism.
snood
 
  7  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 08:58 am
Some people still unfortunately seem to be operating under the misapprehension that questions about Trump's mental health and fitness for office are somehow a stretch.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Fri 25 Aug, 2017 09:29 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

Some people still unfortunately seem to be operating under the misapprehension that questions about Trump's mental health and fitness for office are somehow a stretch.


Some people continue to make ridiculous and unsupported claims about his mental health. It is both unfortunate and odious.
 

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