192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 09:50 am
After remembering Eisenhower's comments, this guy outlines how the military industrial complex has expanded.

Google is even carrying water for them now.

Truthout:

http://www.truth-out.org/progressivepicks/item/34912-illicit-surveillance-and-the-deep-state-an-interview-with-mike-lofgren

Fabulous explanation: (excerpt)


You describe the "deep state" as the iceberg beneath the visible tip of the official US government "that is theoretically controllable via elections." How does it function and what are its main components?

It's a hybrid association of elements of government and parts of top-level finance and industry effectively able to govern the US without reference to the consent of the governed. Its nodes are the national security agencies of government, Treasury, the FISA [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] court (whose dealings are so mysterious not even most members of Congress know what the court is doing).

Mike Lofgren. (Photo: Alisa Lofgren)
Mike Lofgren. (Photo: Alisa Lofgren)
Most congresspeople just vote according to what their party leadership tells them. Membership in the deep state in Congress boils down to the leadership and a handful of Defense and Intelligence Committee members. The private part of the deep state is the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned about in 1961. There is also Wall Street and its symbiotic relationship with the Treasury and its regulatory agencies, like the SEC [Security and Exchange Commission]. People like Hank Paulson, who worked for [George W.] Bush, or Tim Geithner, who worked for Obama, are essentially interchangeable: Their worldview is much the same despite being of different political parties.

And then, of course, you have Silicon Valley - necessary for the technology which totally enables the NSA [National Security Agency] (which informants have told me couldn't do its job without that technology). Silicon Valley is also significant as an enormous center of new wealth. You also see their self-glorifying statements about being innovative disruptors. They certainly are disrupting the economy. There is little evidence that technology will do anything in a macroeconomic sense other than concentrating wealth even further so that we're left with CEOs on top and everyone else in the gig economy, like contractors for Uber.

How did you personally become aware of the deep state and what is the explanatory power of its existence for understanding current affairs?

I became aware that there were forces at work in the period between 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq that were bigger than the government and were operating on their own compass heading. We have a supposedly free press, but when you saw people like Phil Donahue and Ashley Banfield fired or demoted for being critical of invasion, you have to wonder. I'm pretty sure nobody in the White House picked up the phone and asked somebody at NBC to fire those folks, but the NBC executives were sufficiently conditioned to perform a service to the government by firing those folks and creating the propaganda for the war.

In the correspondence leading up to this interview, you mentioned "developments in the past six months that have surprised even me, and not in a good way." Can you briefly outline what these are and their pertinence to The Deep State's premise?

I should correct that: They've surprised me in a mixed way. Certainly, six months ago I would not have imagined Donald Trump had as much staying power as he's demonstrated. Trump in many ways represents the culmination of the deep state. He's a plutocrat who's used the laws, such as business bankruptcy procedures, for his own gain and yet in a way he is frightening people in the deep state because he is so far out, that he's upsetting their business model. The standard model is for billionaires to dictate the candidates' positions on free trade, austerity etc. On the upside: He is scaring the daylights out of members of the deep state. On the downside: He's moving away from the current model of corporate oligarchy with a façade of free elections. Instead, he's using all the populist themes developed by the Republican Party in the past to keep their base happy, but he's actually making promises to act on them and moving towards out-and-out fascism.

On the other hand, you have the [Bernie] Sanders campaign also scaring the daylights out of Democrats. He doesn't have to go to David Geffen's house or to Wall Street with his hat in his hand or fundraise among the glitterati. The last time I looked, his average donation was reported as less than $30. That upsets the whole notion of fundraising described by a New York Times report that half of all political donations came from just 158 families. Unfortunately, that's the business model we've got post Citizens United. The Democrat pooh-bahs are clearly upset and Michael Bloomberg has said he would jump into the race only if Sanders won in the Democratic primaries: that tells me who his friend is and who his enemy is.

Obama appeared to have a similar fundraising model, but it was clear he was bought off in summer 2008 when he voted in favor of the FISA Amendments Act [a bill to indemnify the telecommunications companies over participation in illegal surveillance] that he previously had said he would filibuster. By then he had already taken on John Brennan as a foreign policy adviser. The extraordinary loyalty and indulgence Obama has shown Brennan was demonstrated in his waiting until it was politically possible to get Brennan appointed CIA director, after which he then promptly embarrassed Obama with the scandal of spying on the Senate Intelligence Committee as they were writing a report on CIA torture. Although he made all kinds of bombastic statements about expecting an apology from the committee chair, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, Brennan ended up apologizing instead to Senator Feinstein. Yet Obama sticks by him.

0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  6  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 11:15 am
@emmett grogan,
emmett grogan wrote:

Mrs Clinton is not my favorite person, but she clearly has the credentials to be President. Trump certainly proves a bumbling amateur can't handle the office.



If having "credentials to be President" means adherence to "Government for the corporations/billionaires, by the corporations/billionaires (and/or their whores), for the corporations/billionaires," then you are right.

When Trump's bumbling becomes too problematic for the powers-that-be, then Pence is waiting in the wings to take over as the corporatocracy's puppet-in-chief.



Debra Law
 
  6  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 11:34 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

What is Afghanistan about? Changing the narrative. That's it. Nothing more.


It's about the proposed defense/military/war budget in excess of $640 billion ... it's about milking the dark-money cow so that the middle and lower classes get poorer and the upper class gets richer.
emmett grogan
 
  5  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 12:49 pm
@Debra Law,
What???? TRUMP doesn't have the ear and interests of the wealthy on HIS mind.

Mrs Clinton is much more the politician than she is the cohort of the wealthy.

If the system needs fixing handing the system over to Trump was a very bad idea.

I vociferously supported Bernie right up to the final gavel at the convention and tried a short term push to draft Biden, another Dem with a checkered past, I mean Delaware for Pete's sake!

Sitting out an election to punish Clinton or the DNC or the Party itself also kept progressives out of Congress because if a voter doesn't show up specifically because of one candidate, he/she didn't show up for any one else on the ticket/ballot, either.

Lets face it, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Al Franken would be a lot more effective under a Clinton Presidency. She was sliding left. She's a politician - she knows how to change her program.

Why is it almost every Democratic politician has felt it necessary to tack right, including Mrs Clinton?
InfraBlue
 
  6  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 01:40 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
I think the Deep State is overwhelmingly committed to military action;
Who or what are you referring to here with the term "deep state"? What's their motivation?

It has different meanings for different people. Some regard it as the governmental employees left over from the previous administration.
Lash
 
  -3  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 01:49 pm
@InfraBlue,
They're left over alright. They are entrenched.
Olivier5
 
  6  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 02:09 pm
@Lash,
And my opinion is that your constant harping (like this metaphor better?) on Clinton is unhealthy, illogical and downright obscene. Character assassination is disgusting as a political tool, but here you're assassinating a dead corpse.

If you want to compare Trump with prior politicians, compare him with an ex-president. Otherwise it's apple and, well, oranges.
emmett grogan
 
  7  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 02:17 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
They're left over alright. They are entrenched.


Seriously broad brush there. My uncle put thirty into the miliary, my wife did 28 with a Federal agency, my nieghbor's put in 20 in the military and has almost 15 with the Post Office. Another neighbor has put 15 in with WalMart, my son's been a Lutheran minister for 30 years.

Entrenched, eh?

But thats just one way to squelch the vote: get others to believe that ALL government is bad and ALL Federal employees are incompetent over paid mopes.

Its not government its the politics. Trump is whats wrong with our government.
blatham
 
  8  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 02:33 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
The Deep State is a shadow government that has its own agenda with tentacles reaching through all our branches of government and departments.

It began as primarily the military industrial complex. Eisenhower warned about it...I'm having difficulty believing that you are unaware of this.

It would be surprising if I'd been unaware of Eisenhower's warning and/or the often disguised or invisible influence of non-elected officeholders over US (or other national) politics. But that's not the case.

The reason I asked for clarification of your use of "deep state" was because current use of that term is varied but the more common version I see being pushed forward here (and elsewhere) follows this pattern:
Quote:
The concept of a deep state is a conspiracy theory[1][2][3][4] which claims that there exists a coordinated effort by career government employees and others to influence state policy without regard for democratically elected leadership

Quote:
Donald Trump supporters use the term to refer to their claims that intelligence officers and executive branch officials guide policy through leaking or other internal means.[21][12] The term's conspiratorial undertone has made it popular on conservative and far-right news outlets sympathetic to the Trump administration, including Breitbart News.[22] It has also been discussed by The New York Times[23] and The Observer.[24]
Donald Trump and Steve Bannon, his former chief strategist, have both made claims about a deep state which they believe is interfering with the president's agenda.[25][26][27] Some Trump allies and right-wing media outlets have claimed that former president Barack Obama is coordinating a deep state resistance to Trump.[25][28] The growth of this narrative within the White House has been linked to Trump's unproven[29][30] allegation that Obama wiretapped his telephone during the 2016 Presidential campaign.[31]

These are two quite different conceptions. The latter is appealing to modern right wing idiots, the former is sensible and well-founded.

But I don't see this in precisely the manner that the NPR analyst sees it. The structures of power and influence that arose around the time of WW 2 that Eisenhower spoke of are certainly real but that particular point in time is not the origin of this story. As I've noted before, in the 30s, John Dewey observed, "Politics is the shadow cast by business." Or we can go back further and note the influence on government policy of mercantile enterprises like the East India Company.

Those with great wealth and power have commonly acted to maintain or increase their share of wealth and power quite regardless of - and often in ways that work serious damage upon - the common weal. The modern corporate ethos - "Our prime ethical responsibility is to provide optimum returns for our investors" is the clear explication of this amorality.

This is not a new battle. It has been ever-present in human affairs. It is the bifurcation between those who wish to dominate (for their own perceived good) and those who wish to avoid domination by others. We will always have this goddamn problem.

I trust you've read Chomsky? His analyses of these dynamics is the one I find most compelling (usually). His conception of how and why large media conglomerates or entities tend to function in support of existing structures of power looks pretty sound to me (though now this is all much more complex than in the 50s or the 80s).

I noticed that the NPR analyst used the term "nodes" of power. He's borrowed that phrasing/conception from Assange's early writing. And I think it's a valuable way to imagine how power gets accumulated in certain key areas where leverage can be best manipulated. And as Assange smartly understood, a fundamental aspect of how this power is maintained and expanded is via secrecy. Assange's failing, as I see it, was that of the anarchist or revolutionary who correctly identifies abuses of power and democracy which are systemic or structural and who wishes (for reasons quite moral) to blow that system up BUT has no considered scheme to handle the chaos that will follow if his wish is realized (Bannon sits here too).


blatham
 
  7  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 02:41 pm
@Debra Law,
Quote:
[Afghanistan is] about the proposed defense/military/war budget in excess of $640 billion ... it's about milking the dark-money cow so that the middle and lower classes get poorer and the upper class gets richer.

That's a given. And a constant. War is hugely profitable and peace is not (at least if you are selling cannons).

I could have been more clear, apologies. My meaning was that Trump is, as of this week, talking Afghanistan because it is a means to change the narrative.

PS... let's note that his speech contained a bit about American recovering some costs of this military adventure. And that's about access to rare earth minerals, utterly necessary in modern electronics and all the associated commercial enterprises and the mining of those. American has now fallen behind China in this area.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 02:42 pm
@InfraBlue,
Yes. I've tried to lay out my notions on this in the post to Lash.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 02:45 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
They're left over alright. They are entrenched.

If you mean political appointees, this makes no sense. Each administration does some level of housecleaning. The notion, if someone were to advance it, that policy is covertly established by "Clinton holdovers" or "Bush holdovers" or "Reagan holdovers" would be patently ridiculous.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 03:25 pm
Watch this one. It's important.
Quote:
A think tank that specializes in voting rights filed a lawsuit Monday seeking more information about communications between various government agencies and President Trump’s so-called “elections integrity” commission. The complaint brought by Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law, along with the group Protect Democracy Project, alleges that the agencies did not respond to previous Freedom of Information Act requests they filed concerning Trump’s election commission.

“This administration has a troubling pattern of keeping public information from the public — a pattern that is continuing with this commission,” Wendy Weiser, director of the Brennan Center’s Democracy Program, said in a press release announcing the lawsuit. “The government’s obligation to share this information is especially important when there are so many reasons to be skeptical of this commission. When the public is not able to oversee the work of a presidential panel like this, there is a risk of abuse, which could negatively impact voting rights across the country.”
TPM
Indeed, pay attention to everything you see concerning this commission. It is about voter suppression and nothing else.
snood
 
  6  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 03:28 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Watch this one. It's important.
Quote:
A think tank that specializes in voting rights filed a lawsuit Monday seeking more information about communications between various government agencies and President Trump’s so-called “elections integrity” commission. The complaint brought by Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law, along with the group Protect Democracy Project, alleges that the agencies did not respond to previous Freedom of Information Act requests they filed concerning Trump’s election commission.

“This administration has a troubling pattern of keeping public information from the public — a pattern that is continuing with this commission,” Wendy Weiser, director of the Brennan Center’s Democracy Program, said in a press release announcing the lawsuit. “The government’s obligation to share this information is especially important when there are so many reasons to be skeptical of this commission. When the public is not able to oversee the work of a presidential panel like this, there is a risk of abuse, which could negatively impact voting rights across the country.”
TPM
Indeed, pay attention to everything you see concerning this commission. It is about voter suppression and nothing else.

Not to worry though. The Attorney General will surely guard against attempts at widespread suppression of black and brown voters. Wait...
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  2  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 03:35 pm
@emmett grogan,
Quote:
Its not government its the politics. Trump is whats wrong with our government.


No mention that an entrepreneur with plenty of bad decisions in his wake, and zero political experience, can actually become president?

The system that allows that to happen, is to blame.
emmett grogan
 
  4  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 03:42 pm
@Builder,
All those who refused to vote for Mrs Clinton is what did it.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 04:04 pm
@Builder,
The Electoral College is the cruel joke a badly misguided subset of the Founding Fathers, who had no faith in democracy, played on us, their descendents. It's been used, what, five times now? And st least four of those times the victor was colossally awful. Trump barely squeaked through, and he's the worst of the bunch. Had the wisdom of the people,who chose Hillary by nearly 3 million votes, prevailed, we wouldn't have thel east competent and least honest president the US has ever been saddled with.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 04:06 pm
@blatham,
I find what you shared to be very intellectual, Is this all you or did you do some copy and paste like I do at times?
McGentrix
 
  0  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 04:31 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

Had the wisdom of the people ... prevailed, we wouldn't have the least competent and least honest president the US has ever been saddled with.


Yes we would, Hillary would be far more hated and despised than Trump. She'd have been a colossal failure.
Cycloptichorn
 
  5  
Tue 22 Aug, 2017 04:59 pm
@McGentrix,
I mean, it's pretty hard to see how she could be failing worse than Trump is currently. Not sure how you think things would have been worse.

I think watching her spar with McConnell and Ryan would have been pretty interesting, myself. And we may have even gotten some compromise legislation out of it.

Cycloptichorn
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.43 seconds on 04/29/2024 at 02:16:17