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McGentrix
 
  -4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 11:27 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Maybe so. But that has nothing to do with protesters who showed up and didn't march along with the Nazis chanting their slogans.


We may be the only ones understanding that...
izzythepush
 
  6  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 11:44 am
Quote:
The man who pointed out that everyone compares everything to Nazis says it's OK to call alt-right protestors Nazis.

Mike Godwin formulated Godwin's Law more than 25 years ago. And it has become a foundational rule of the internet in the time since: as a discussion goes on, the likelihood of someone being called a Nazi becomes higher.

Some have added an extra part: as soon as someone is called a Nazi, they are probably wrong.

But Mr Godwin has said that the white nationalists who took over the streets of Charlottesville over the weekend can fairly be compared to Nazis, given that many of them openly voice support for a Nazi ideology.

"By all means, compare these s***heads to the Nazis," he wrote. "Again and again. I'm with you."


http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/godwins-law-mike-godwin-internet-hitler-charlottesville-virginia-donald-trump-a7892171.html
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  6  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 12:31 pm
Robert E Lee thought that having monuments for the confederacy was to keep alive the soreness and strife of the civil war.

Quote:
As to when the right time would come, later letters suggest Lee thought never. When a Gettysburg memorial association invited Lee to attend a meeting "for the purpose of marking upon the ground by enduring memorials of granite the positions and movements of the armies," Lee declined.

Perhaps expecting the general who lost the Battle of Gettysburg to want his army's movements marked in stone was asking too much, but Lee's refusal went further. Rather than raising battlefield memorials, he favored erasing battlefields from the landscape altogether.

"I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered," he wrote.


CNN

The decedent's of Robert E Lee are in favor of maybe keeping the statues in a museum. I would be in favor of that. Having the statues in the middle of towns makes it seem like the town is still in favor of confederacy and what it represented by putting the statues in a place of honor. It is harmful to decedents of slaves who have to live and work there in their daily lives.

Robert E. Lee's Direct Descendant Denounces Charlottesville White Nationalists: 'There's No Place For That Hate' (Newsweek)
maporsche
 
  6  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 12:42 pm
@revelette1,
Statues of confederate soldiers are the very first participation trophies.

Only winners should get trophies is the a common refrain heard from people nowadays.
0 Replies
 
emmett grogan
 
  5  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 12:44 pm
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHbcVpZWAAAJzWH.jpg
emmett grogan
 
  5  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 12:49 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The difference is exactly that: if we call them Nazis we risk trivializing what Nazis really did do. But if they call themselves Nazis and we don't call it what it is, we trivialize what it is they really mean to do.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  5  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 12:49 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
But that has nothing to do with protesters who showed up and didn't march along with the Nazis chanting their slogans.


Those protesters are figments of your and McG's imaginations.
0 Replies
 
emmett grogan
 
  4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 12:55 pm
They claim to be Nazis. They dress like Nazis. They talk like Nazis. How am I generalizing them by calling them Nazis?

Can anyone think of any liberal groups that use torches in their meetings and marches???? Candles, flashlights; but torches, TIKI or otherwise?
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 01:00 pm
@emmett grogan,
Man, what you don't know about some celebrities. I had no idea of the kind of good man Johnny Cash was. His daughter seems well written and articulate as well. Good post.
emmett grogan
 
  3  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 01:01 pm
@izzythepush,
No, no not at all. I was just typing in something that occurred to me yesterday.
0 Replies
 
emmett grogan
 
  3  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 01:06 pm
@revelette1,
There's little group of people who speculate on whether Cash's first wife was black or not:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130118044902AAZDkfb

Cash was pretty liberal in a lot of his beliefs.
glitterbag
 
  6  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 01:19 pm
@emmett grogan,
Well, Trump tweeted that Spain should study Pershing's solution, you know, the bat **** crazy idea that Pershing dipped bullets in pigs blood and terrorists stopped for 35 years. He used that myth in a speech on the campaign trail......it was pointed out it never happened......absolutely a lie......but he tweeted it out again today after the Barcelona terror stack. We need to recognize the President is seriously deranged....and unfit to serve. He identifies closely with fiction and doesn't recognize facts. Facts are not as much fun.
emmett grogan
 
  3  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 01:23 pm
@glitterbag,
Yeah, right. That's the stuff of movies. Trump isn't really a President or a billionaire, he just plays that in the movies.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 01:53 pm
Fox News invited a conservative and a liberal to debate Confederate statues.

blatham
 
  4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 01:58 pm
@glitterbag,
I wonder how Trump would react if he was informed that he'd just been hit with a paintball round filled with an African American woman's menstrual blood?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  7  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 02:05 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
His point was simple; because of the over use of calling everyone and anyone from the right a Nazi, when actual Nazi's showed up everyone was either hesitant to call them Nazi's or hesitant to actually believe that they were in Charlottesville. So, when it was reported that Nazi's were involved in the march people simply didn't believe them. I certainly didn't. It was another "There they go again" moment and a shrug.


Yes, his point was simple, and it was ridiculous.

There is just no way to watch footage of the events in Charlottesville, to see the photos, to see the videos, and come away with the impression that this was just a case of "the left" calling a couple of harmless conservative protesters "Nazis."

I'm sure there were conservatives who simply dismissed the headlines without even bothering to inform themselves about what actually occurred in Charlottesville, instinctively rejecting any kind of reporting that mentions the terms "right" and "Nazi" in the same context. In the most charitable interpretation, you might argue that this is understandable - that the overuse of this kind of terminology has created a climate where people don't even bother to get to the bottom of headlines they instinctively disagree with, whether they're factually correct or not.

Video guy argues that it isn't the fault of conservatives for ignoring or dismissing the reports of a Nazis rally that turned violent and ended in the murder of an innocent counter-protester. Rather, he argues, the blame for conservatives dismissing reports and headlines lies with "the left" for overuse of the "Nazi" terminology.

That's a ridiculous notion. Nobody on "the left" has prevented conservatives from forming an educated opinion, from actually obtaining facts about the situation before dismissing it out of hand, from reading past the headlines before rejecting any kind of reporting in its entirety.

"The left" didn't prevent you from obtaining more information, from actually seeking out and watching footage of Nazis and white supremacists marching and shouting Nazi slogans. Why should we expect less than that from other conservatives? Why should we make excuses for their willful ignorance? What happened to personal responsibility - why shouldn't we expect conservatives who want to comment on the events in Charlottesville to obtain at least the basic facts before weighing in on the debate? Why is it the fault of "the left" if conservatives chose not to do what you, McGentrix, were able and willing to do?
glitterbag
 
  6  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 02:40 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:



There is just no way to watch footage of the events in Charlottesville, to see the photos, to see the videos, and come away with the impression that this was just a case of "the left" calling a couple of harmless conservative protesters "Nazis."

I'm sure there were conservatives who simply dismissed the headlines without even bothering to inform themselves about what actually occurred in Charlottesville, instinctively rejecting any kind of reporting that mentions the terms "right" and "Nazi" in the same context. In the most charitable interpretation, you might argue that this is understandable - that the overuse of this kind of terminology has created a climate where people don't even bother to get to the bottom of headlines they instinctively disagree with, whether they're factually correct or not.

Video guy argues that it isn't the fault of conservatives for ignoring or dismissing the reports of a Nazis rally that turned violent and ended in the murder of an innocent counter-protester. Rather, he argues, the blame for conservatives dismissing reports and headlines lies with "the left" for overuse of the "Nazi" terminology.

That's a ridiculous notion. Nobody on "the left" has prevented conservatives from forming an educated opinion, from actually obtaining facts about the situation before dismissing it out of hand, from reading past the headlines before rejecting any kind of reporting in its entirety.

"The left" didn't prevent you from obtaining more information, from actually seeking out and watching footage of Nazis and white supremacists marching and shouting Nazi slogans. Why should we expect less than that from other conservatives? Why should we make excuses for their willful ignorance? What happened to personal responsibility - why shouldn't we expect conservatives who want to comment on the events in Charlottesville to obtain at least the basic facts before weighing in on the debate? Why is it the fault of "the left" if conservatives chose not to do what you, were able and willing to do?


This is one of the best explanations of personal responsibility so far. Thank you old europe for stating what should be obvious.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 02:44 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

The letter from the journalists actually said:

"it’s all the more important that the magazine get on the right side of this story as it develops.”

Disgusting. Let's stop doing brilliant and accurate investigatory journalism, and make sure we're on the 'right' side.

Unlike you, some journalists still have a moral sense.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 03:02 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I'm sure too that there were some self-described members of the Alt-right who didn't want their comrades who were on the scene confused with Nazis and KKK members...there is a difference, and it's too easy to lump everyone who was at the demonstration together. 

So what IS the difference between the Alt-right, the KKK and the Nazis, pray tell?
 

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