192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -4  
Wed 16 Aug, 2017 10:08 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:

I'll agree with you, McGentrix, that Nazi comparisons are way overused in the political discourse in the United States.

However, claiming that "the left" has been using Nazi comparisons so often that now the general public is unable to recognize it when actual Nazis are marching in the streets and murdering a peaceful protester is really the height of victim-blaming and apologism.


The connection between the Left's ridiculous overuse of the term "Nazi" and the incident in Charlottesville is pretty weak.

If anyone was reluctant to accept that the Neo-Nazis parading through the city chanting Nazi slogans, it wasn't because left-wingers overuse the term it was because they stubbornly didn't want to concede that the howlers on CNN and elsewhere were actually being accurate this time. I'm sure too that there were some self-described members of the Alt-right who didn't want their comrades who were on the scene confused with Nazis and KKK members...there is a difference, and it's too easy to lump everyone who was at the demonstration together.

There were a great number of demonstrators doing their best to stop Milo from speaking at Berkely not that long ago and while I think their shutting down opposing views (especially on a campus) is illiberal and pretty shitty, I never claimed that all of the students, professors and outsiders who were there that night were the same as the Antifa thugs who smashed windows and set fires. Both the non-violent protesters and their supporters (here and in the wider world) were all real quick to point out the separation and distinction. Fair enough because they were real.

There was separation and distinction at the Charlottesville demonstration too, but the presence of Neo-Nazis and the KKK overwhelmed the event and and the coverage. Clearly the white supremacists in attendance did nothing to help advance the causes of freedom of speech and preservation of history.

I can practically write the responses this post is likely to get: "That's the BS of a racist apologist and sympathizer! Everyone knew that the Neo-Nazis and KKK were going to be there and so anyone who did attend had to be a racist or, at the very least, were so low as to not mind standing shoulder to shoulder with them!"

Well, everyone knew that the Antifa and BLM were going to be there too. Does that mean that every counter-demonstrator who attended is for all intents and purposes a leftist or anarchist thug who resorts to violence to silence speech? Considering that great energy was spent drawing the distinction at Berkeley, I would expect the same to be the case with Charlottesville.

And while the Left indiscriminately overuses "Nazi," it does the same with "victim blaming" and "apologist."

Crowder's point in the video was very weak but it had nothing to do with blaming any victim. We don't know that the counter-demonstrators who were injured or killed by the vehicle were screaming "Nazi!" and even if they were, Crowder didn't say that crying Nazi (past or present) in any way led to their being harmed. He said that the overuse of the term in the past led to some people not believing real Nazis were in attendance, and as I've already addressed that's an argument without foundation.

He also didn't argue in any way that amounted to an excuse for the actions of the actual Nazis there.

His mash up of the parable and this incident was tortured and made little sense since there are virtually no parallels present. Not his best work at all.
InfraBlue
 
  7  
Wed 16 Aug, 2017 10:21 pm
@McGentrix,
So according to you, the people participating in a white supremacist march aren't white supremacists and their supporters? They're "fine people?" Understood.

Or, are you saying that I've called everyone I disagree with a Nazi?

I haven't.
Blickers
 
  7  
Wed 16 Aug, 2017 11:47 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote Finn:
Quote:
The connection between the Left's ridiculous overuse of the term "Nazi" and the incident in Charlottesville is pretty weak.

You are quite ignorant of the far right, or pretend to be. David Duke's "contribution" to the movement while he was even in more of a leadership role than now was to merge the Klan with other worldwide white supremacist movements. So while the Klan started out as a uniquely American movement, by the eighties it was very much espousing Nazi ideology and flying swastikas. At various times Klan leaders have been giving speeches to other far right groups, ostensibly with a separate philosophy.

In short, is now an accomplished fact that while one group or another might label itself as Klan and another as militia, the two movements long ago got very close with a lot of personnel going back and forth.
izzythepush
 
  6  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 01:25 am
Even Steve Bannon has a go at the Nazis.

Quote:
The chief White House strategist Steve Bannon has attacked white nationalists as "clowns" as the fallout from violent protests in Charlottesville continues.
Mr Bannon once headed the far-right Breitbart News, seen as both a major channel for nationalism and key in helping Donald Trump win election.
But he told The American Prospect: "Ethno-nationalism - it's losers".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40958329
hightor
 
  4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 03:22 am
@Lash,


Lash wrote:
The group found that "there was no hack of the Democratic National Committee's system on July 5 last year—not by the Russians, not by anyone else."

The report continues, "Hard science now demonstrates it was a leak—a download executed locally with a memory key or a similarly portable data-storage device. In short, it was an inside job by someone with access to the DNC's system."


We know it was really Seth Rich — look how far the Hillary supporters will go to hide the truth:

The Nation is reviewing a story casting doubt on Russian hack of DNC
WP

Remember Benghazi!


hightor
 
  6  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 04:37 am
@McGentrix,
How can you even watch this dumbed-down crap? Sure, people have been called "Nazis" for their political beliefs ever since there were...Nazis. Same with "fascist". And "commie". Any intelligent person can differentiate between hyperbolic insults used for effect and someone calling out an actual Swastika-wearing proponent of anti-Semitic white nationalism. When right-wing trolls scream "commie!" on A2K they're not referring to someone who believes in workers owning the means of production, they're just continuing a red-baiting tradition which began early in the last century and reached its apotheosis with McCarthy and Dick Nixon. Crowder could have stated his whole thesis in a sentence or two. And it could be effectively countered just as easily.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 04:45 am
Read something yesterday: the Russian hackers — oops, I mean Seth Rich — weren't able to enter Clinton's server; her personal e-mails (including any of the 30,000 missing ones) have never been leaked. Apparently her setup was secure, contrary to the right's allegations.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 05:35 am
Quote:
the Left's ridiculous overuse of the term "Nazi"

Suddenly, this claim from McG and Finn and others and from, particularly, fringe RW media has emerged and become common. It's bogus. I've never used the term except in reference to the historical German instance or the more modern copy-cat groups. I don't know of anyone posting here who has used the term profligately and inappropriately. In the fairly broad reading I've done over decades, I've not seen what's being claimed.

As regards Charlottesville and RW groups marching there, Nazi symbols were easily evident. Hitler salutes were easily evident. Blatant anti-semitism was easily evident. Using the term Nazi in reference to these people and anyone else like them is entirely appropriate.
Walter Hinteler
 
  8  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 05:54 am
@blatham,
I've always objected the use of "commie" for any left (in the US-understanding) person (not only, because it includes even European conservatives) but found the inflationous use of Nazi ridiculing the victims and offending the survivors.

But Nazis are Nazis, and someone joing them on a demonstration supports them as well as those who defend them.
Unfortunately, they gained more then just tacit acceptance.
blatham
 
  5  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 06:10 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes. The three terms which seem to me to be used most profligately and inappropriately are commie, socialist and fascist. But (at least here in NA) nazi is really very seldomly used in such a manner.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 06:20 am
@hightor,
An excerpt from the WP article (this portion is the letter written by 'journalists' at the paper to their editor)

We understand that anxiety about foreign – especially Russian – influence is a familiar trope in American politics, and has been used in the past to suppress internal dissent. But to emphasize this particular angle in Nation coverage over the conduct of the Trump administration is a dereliction of our responsibility as progressive journalists. Last week, for example, the magazine ran a piece casting doubt on the motivation of the officials behind the White House leaks, one of several it has published in recent months that have implied the real threat to national security is not Trump’s conduct but rather the attacks on him. As longtime associates of The Nation, we are deeply concerned that by making these editorial emphases and by likening calls for investigations into the Russia connection to “red baiting,” the magazine is not only playing into the hands of the Trump administration, but doing a dishonor to its best traditions. We have noted, too, with dismay, that Tucker Carlson, Ann Coulter and other far-right adversaries have taken comfort in the writings of other Nation writers on the current crisis.
The dissenters appealed for a change in position: “We believe The Nation occupies a unique position in the ecology of American journalism, and precisely because of this position, it’s all the more important that the magazine get on the right side of this story as it develops.” In late June, vanden Heuvel met with the letter’s signers; she notes that an editorial board meeting in March had already addressed disagreements on Russia coverage.

Katha Pollitt, a columnist who signed the letter, tells the Erik Wemple Blog that her worries about the issue go beyond alleged Russia collusion. “I just felt that for some reason, we are too heavily invested in the defense of Putin and all his works,” she said. And she can’t abide too much more applause for Nation content from certain quarters. “These are our friends now? The Washington Times, Breitbart, Seth Rich truthers and Donald Trump Jr.? Give me a break. It’s very upsetting to me. It’s embarrassing.”

The article you linked is so disturbing to me. Journalists at the paper petitioned the editor to drop the story. They're upset that the investigation has helped Trump. They're mad because what they found revealed that Putin isn't quite as evil as the MSM and the Democrats need him to be.

They are also horrified that someone linked the DNC inside hack to Seth Rich.

I'm glad you also made the schoolyard Benghazi scream in your post. It is incredibly pertinent to the DNC FRAUD case, and this story.

A great Clinton ploy to get rid of damning news is to get all their mouthpieces, their colluding media, their cronies at papers to all treat it with distant. If they all in concert say the say lie long and loud enough, people either believe it or they're too embarrassed to present it in conversation.

Yeah, Benghazi. I think Clinton and others in the Obama administration fucked it up and caused deaths.

And yeah, Seth Rich. He was a Bernie Sanders supporter who had great access to the **** we saw in Wikileaks, he knew Bernie (and all his supporters) were being cheated, and he leaked it.

And yeah, Russian hoax! (First time I've used the term, but it does fit). There has been not one shred of hard evidence that Russia had anything to do with "hacking" our election; however, there is now hard data that says they could not have. The narrative came from Hillary Clinton immediately after she was caught in the release of her own words and those of her cheating colluding campaign -- along with the media types on her payroll.

And rather than attend to that avalanche of treasonous poison,

Russia.

Like 'squirrel!'

Scoff about Benghazi. Everything you do is avoidance of facts.
Below viewing threshold (view)
blatham
 
  6  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 06:24 am
@blatham,
Here is a rather perfect example.
Quote:
David Bozell, the president of the conservative activist group For America, said conservatives like him sometimes did not dare speak up in support of the president anymore: “We’re being told, ‘Sit down, shut up, you
Nazi.’”

I'd wager a LOT of money no one has ever said this to Bozell. I'd wager he doesn't even have a single actual example of this actually happening where a speaker was not explicitly pushing some dogma central to Nazi ideology ("Jews won't replace us", etc)
Below viewing threshold (view)
Lash
 
  -4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 06:38 am
The letter from the journalists actually said:

"it’s all the more important that the magazine get on the right side of this story as it develops.”

Disgusting. Let's stop doing brilliant and accurate investigatory journalism, and make sure we're on the 'right' side.
blatham
 
  7  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 06:42 am
From the wonderful Margaret Sullivan
Quote:
This week should put the nail in the coffin for ‘both sides’ journalism

He’s the false-equivalency president.

During the 2016 presidential campaign, the national news media’s misguided sense of fairness helped equate the serious flaws of Hillary Clinton with the disqualifying evils of Donald Trump.

“But her emails . . .” goes the ironic line that aptly summarizes too much of the media’s coverage of the candidates. In short: Clinton’s misuse of a private email server was inflated to keep up with Trump’s racism, sexism and unbalanced narcissism — all in the name of seeming evenhanded.

In a devastating post-election report, Harvard University’s Shorenstein Center concluded that media treatment was rife with false equivalency: “On topics relating to the candidates’ fitness for office, Clinton and Trump’s coverage was virtually identical in terms of its negative tone.”

That was a factor — one of many — that helped to put Trump in the Oval Office.

Elected with the help of false equivalency, Trump is now creating some of his own...
WP
blatham
 
  5  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 06:45 am
@blatham,
A brilliant formulation I'd never heard before! (from the Sullivan piece linked just above)
Quote:
Winston Churchill — a politician with a moral core — disparaged this idea for all time: “I decline utterly to be impartial as between the fire brigade and the fire.”
0 Replies
 
emmett grogan
 
  4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 07:09 am
@izzythepush,
I feel like Steve Bannon is Trump's Ernst Röhm. Bannon may have felt that TIKI torch carriers are clowns but he never condemned their basic 'Nazi-ism'.
blatham
 
  4  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 07:19 am
From our ever-popular The Friends You Keep series...
Quote:
...Consider, for example, the outside legal team Trump has hired to lead his defense in the Russia scandal. As Rachel noted on the show, the New York Times reported overnight:

Quote:
President Trump's personal lawyer on Wednesday forwarded an email to conservative journalists, government officials and friends that echoed secessionist Civil War propaganda and declared that the group Black Lives Matter "has been totally infiltrated by terrorist groups."

The email forwarded by John Dowd, who is leading the president's legal team, painted the Confederate general Robert E. Lee in glowing terms and equated the South's rebellion to that of the American Revolution against England. Its subject line -- "The Information that Validates President Trump on Charlottesville" -- was a reference to comments Mr. Trump made earlier this week in the aftermath of protests in the Virginia college town.


The ridiculous email told recipients, "You cannot be against General Lee and be for General Washington, there literally is no difference between the two men."

Trump World really is getting stranger. One would assume that the lawyer overseeing the president's legal defense in the most serious political scandal in at least a generation would be pretty busy. The fact that Dowd is making time to promote a racially inflammatory message, helping spread neo-Confederate propaganda, is truly bizarre.

It's worth emphasizing that the president's chief outside counsel didn't write the contents of the email; he forwarded it to a group of journalists and public officials. The author of the message Dowd apparently liked is a guy named Jerome Almon, who reportedly "runs several websites alleging government conspiracies and arguing that the F.B.I. has been infiltrated by Islamic terrorists."
Benen

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Thu 17 Aug, 2017 07:21 am
@emmett grogan,
Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting Bannon, just using him as an indicator of how far removed Trump is from reality.
 

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