192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
ossobucotemp
 
  3  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 08:24 pm
I care about Realjohnboy, smart and wise man.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 08:48 pm
@ossobucotemp,
OK so you seem to have a crush on Realjohnboy. Would you care to share with us all who he is and why you brought him up?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 08:48 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:


Quote:
(True to form, you frame this sort of political sabotage as exclusively within the GOP bag of dirty tricks)


No such claim made.

This is becoming a familiar refrain from the resident master of insinuation and implication.

Quote:
she not only a professional internet troll but a warrior of the Alt-Right (and, in fact, a very terrible person)


I did not say Lash was/is a professional troll.

Of course not, and you, reliably, take refuge in what you didn't precisely say. (See above) In any case, it's nice that you're not accusing her of being a political whore...just a racist, neo-Nazi gremlin who is devoted to disinformation for personal gratification.


But I do expect she is linked with others doing similar work.

Ahhh... I see. At least she's not doing it for money - right?

"Terrible person"? No. Just a liar with political ideas/aims I find morally repugnant. I might have this wrong but Occam's razor suggests I don't.

The ever cute blatham.

I on the other hand have come to realize that you are a terrible person. You have attempted, rather pathetically, to defame a member in this forum as a means of striking out at one of the few left-wingers on A2K who not only refuses to acknowledge you as their spiritual leader, but regularly calls you out on your propagandizing. I imagine you are also trying to rally your followers like emmett/bobsal and izzy (and the novitiate Setanta) who have already gone on record with this preposterous calumny.

For someone who revels in the simplistic, you have an interesting view of what might be the simplest of explanations.

I think to most honest people the simplest explanation for Lash's posts is that they are an expression of her essentially libertarian world view. She may, in fact, be one of the few professed socialists in this country who actually gives a damn about individual freedoms. In time, I expect that she will find that her devotion to liberty and inherent distrust of the State is irreconcilable with her newly developed infatuation with socialism, but she also may be the only person in this forum who displays a mind that is wide open to alternative views and more than willing to reassess established opinions.

Your application of Occam's Razor is laughable.

You would have us believe that the simplest explanation is that Lash, who for years presented in A2K as essentially a moderate conservative, became convinced that she could fool everyone with a fanciful tale that her disgust with the ruling Establishment encompassing both parties led her to see an old 50's era commie-lite as America's last best hope, and volunteered to become an operative of the GOP, Movement Conservatism, David Duke, or the Koch Brothers (Or maybe the Russians!). She then embarked on a pro bono effort; with the assistance of a network of fellow right-wing propagandists, in an effort to demoralize and divide Democrats across the land; focusing her attention on an obscure little internet discussion forum where the liberals have all become enthralled by a progressive prophet in Canada. Gosh, how could anyone not see that?

I never gave it much thought before, but it now seems quite probable that paranoid schizophrenics who rant about the Frankenstein radio air waves that are transmitted by the Trilateral Commission from an outpost in Butte Montana, and enter their anuses to embark on a journey to their brains with the intent of seizing control of it...is their simplest explanation for the voices in their heads.


reasoning logic
 
  -2  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 08:58 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,


Quote:
In any case, it's nice that you're not accusing Lash of being a political whore...just a racist, neo-Nazi gremlin who is devoted to disinformation for personal gratification.


Quote:

But I do expect lash is linked with others doing similar work.


Does this expectation have some sort of evidence or logical reasoning backing it up?
Blickers
 
  2  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 09:06 pm
@layman,
Quote layman:
Quote:
The constitution is, and was, a contract, a compact, if you will, among sovereign states.

If I agreed to buy your car for $5,000, but you later refused to give me the title or the keys to it, you're just the kind who would insist that I had agreed to give you $5,000 and must do it, eh?

Except that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, which overrides all laws, contract law or not. Any state, local or Federal law which is in conflict with the Constitution is null and void. Like I said in my previous post, show me where in the Constitution it says that any state or group of states can decide on their own that some other states are not following the Constitution, (as they see it), and decide to say "Sayonara".

It doesn't, of course. The Confederate attempt at secession-never successful-was unconstitutional. Please note the following passage in the Constitution, Article III:
Quote:
Section 2

1: The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;—to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States;...


If the Southern states felt that the some other states were not holding up their end of the bargain, they are to take the case before the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court rules the complaining state can secede because the contract is broken, then they can secede. Otherwise, they can't. In point of fact, a few years previous the Supreme Court did rule that a state law imprisoning an agent who came to a non slave state who came to reclaim a slave on behalf of a deceased slaveowner's heirs. The slave might have actually been freed by the slave's owner before he died, by the way, which was not unusual. The Northern state's law was overturned by the Supreme Court and the slave returned. So redress for the slaveowner did happen, which more or less shoots down the Confederates' excuse for seceding.

At any rate, you still have to point to the place where the Constitution says a state or states have the right to secede even if they sincerely felt other states were not living up to their bargain. If you can't, then clearly the Confederacy's attempt at secession was entirely unconstitutional. The Constitution which all the Confederate states ratified, and which they all recognized as the supreme law of the land. Yes, over contract law as well.

InfraBlue
 
  4  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 09:09 pm
@layman,
So, what do you make of your march in Charlottesville, victim?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 09:27 pm
@hightor,
For one...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/17/new_okeefe_video_clinton_campaign_dnc_coordinated_with_organizations_to_beat_up_trump_supporters.html

This is a pointless exercise though since as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow morning in the East, blatham and his flock will devote posts and numerous links to prove this and other instances are bullshit manufactured by conservatives.

I will provide one example after another and argue that both parties are corrupt and both engage in such dirty tricks, but that won't stand with progressives and Democrats who will contend, as they always do, that their favored party is either above all political sins or so minimally involved that any comparison to the GOP is ridiculous.

Blatham and his favored apostles will gleefully caper and chortle as they remind one another of the merry left-wing pranksters that Republicans pathetically offered as counter-points to their own insidious actors.

All the while they will simply accept the word of their prophet that "Anti-Clintonism" was a campaign of unfounded smears due to the cynical political goals of amoral Republicans who knew that somehow they needed to emasculate one of the greatest presidents of our time...and, that with the sinister sounding Arkansas Project, Emmett Tyrrell Jr was it's originating architect. The Prophet's knowledge, evidence and "corroborating details" (of which he has insisted I provide), was was nothing more than a link to Tyrrell's wikipedia page which rather than providing all the sordid details in proof of the Anti-Clintonism plot, contains this introductory message from the site:

Quote:
This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. Please help improve it by removing promotional content and inappropriate external links, and by adding encyclopedic content written from a neutral point of view


Apparently blatham would have us all believe that a one page reference profile which was apparently written by Tyrell supporters or the man himself, provides all the evidence you need to confirm his claim of Tyrrell's insidious efforts. Smile
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 09:31 pm
@Blickers,
Heh, Blicky, once again you go completely off topic and demonstrate that your thought processes are incoherent.

Now you pretend like the issue is a State's "right" to secede, and even though off-topic, your "arguments" are simply instances of circular reasoning, i.e., "begging the question," where your premise is your conclusion, and your conclusion is your premise.

As a historical matter, a state's "right" to secede was always a matter of serious academic dispute, not a "settled" matter by any means. Such questions are answered, in the real world, by one means, i.e., FORCE, not debate.

Did the colonies have a right to "secede" from England? Debate it all you want, and say they had no such "right" if you want to be consistent. Fact remains, they did. And they backed it with sufficient force to make it stick.
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 09:40 pm
And now for a little much-needed humor:

As a member of another website posted:
https://cdn.thisisreno.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/12205229/Peter-Cvjetanovic.jpg
That ain't 'Give Peace a Chance' or 'We Shall Overcome' you're screaming there, bud.

No, he's just participating in another "Two-Minute Hate" in Oceania, screaming at the visage of Emmanuel Goldstein on the giant telescreen.
But don't worry. He'll calm down soon enough when Big Brother makes his appearance.

Sweet nightmares, everyone! Smile
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 09:47 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
That was the reason [slavery] why the south fought the war. But the fact remains, most southerners today view the flag as symbol of pride in southern culture, and of resistance against leftists who sneer and demean southern culture.

The fact that leftists respond to the flag by sneering and demeaning southern culture even more only reinforces the flag's symbolism as resistance to anti-south bigotry.

It is actually quite reasonable for southerners to use confederate flags as a symbol of southern pride. Local regions around the world often use the flag of a past era when that region was politically independent as a modern symbol of regional pride. It's the same reason why Texans fly the flag of the Republic of Texas.

Actually, the Southerners who fly the Confederate or Virginia Battle Flag are celebrating nothing but their wish that the South had won the Civil War and slavery was never gotten rid of. Neither one of those flags made their appearance before they were made to represent the Confederate states.

If either of those flags had been around representing all or part of the South before the Civil War, then a case could be made for saying the flags represent the South's overall contribution to American history, which is extensive. But those flags only came into existence to represent the Confederacy. Those flags therefore represent nothing but the wish the Confederacy had won and slavery allowed to survive.

As proof of the above, you need only to look at how Georgia, in the beginning of the Civil rights movement in 1956, added the Confederate flag to the state flag. For almost 100 years after the Civil War Georgia didn't see fit to do this, but as soon as blacks started marching for civil rights, that Confederate emblem went on the flag. There can be no other reason for that other than to put blacks "in their place" just as they were beginning to get some traction in their struggle for justice.

It is conceivable that there might be some well-meaning southerners who buy the hype that the flag stands for the South's contribution to the country as a whole, without relating it to a put down of civil rights for all, but they are being deluded. For every honest southerner who actually feels that way there must be at least one other southerner who understands the real message of the Conflederate flag but uses that "Southern heritage" excuse to argue the flag is acceptable and it is the protestors who are being unreasonable.
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 09:49 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
So, what do you make of your march in Charlottesville, victim?

Read the thread if you want to know. I've made my "thoughts" known in multiple posts, and I'm not about to repeat them all for your convenience, cheese-eater.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 10:13 pm
There's a line from a movie about the revolutionary war, which I've never seen, but have heard repeated, that kinda relates to the Trump administration today, in a roundabout way. The line is:

"I'd rather contend with one tyrant, 3000 miles away, than 3000 tyrants one mile away."

Something like that. Think about it, eh?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 10:27 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Actually, the Southerners who fly the Confederate or Virginia Battle Flag are celebrating nothing but their wish that the South had won the Civil War and slavery was never gotten rid of.

At least you're addressing the issue in this post, Blicky. But it doesn't prove your claim, it merely evidences my statement that:

layman wrote:
You just blurt out your emotions, assert them as obvious truths which require no rational explanation or justification, and go on your smug, merry way, satisfied that your mere assertion has proven you right.

I'll give you credit for at least trying to provide some justification for your claims, but they only lead right back to what I said:

Blicky wrote:
It is conceivable that there might be some well-meaning southerners who buy the hype that the flag stands for the South's contribution to the country as a whole, without relating it to a put down of civil rights for all, but they are being deluded.

They are "deluded," eh? How omniscient of you, eh?
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 10:37 pm
@layman,
You're easy to debate with, Blicky, because, with you, no one has to put forth any arguments. You always prove their argument for them. My original post said this:

layman wrote:
Ask any cheese-eater what a confederate flag or statue of Robert E. Lee "stands for," and they will quickly tell you that it stands for only one thing: Racism and Slavery.

Ask a typical southerner what it "stands for" and they will tell you it symbolizes the courage, selfless sacrifice, and determination to resist oppression of their honored ancestors, of whom they are rightly proud.

The cheese-eaters will not accept this. Something can only mean what THEY tell you it means.


Thanks, again, for proving my point for me.

The cheese-eaters in Charlottesville want to spend $800,000 tearing down historical statues in public parks. Why?

Because they want to revise history and force their idiosyncratic cheese-eating "thinking" on everyone, that's why.

And, ultimately, that's why there are protests about it.
farmerman
 
  4  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 10:55 pm
@Blickers,
Most of these statues that are of concern were commissioned and erected between like 1890 through the early "teens" of the twentieth century. The claim that these public chochkies represent "SOuthern heritage" is an unfortunate linkage especially when that heritage is heavily based upon an assumption that the institution of slavery was a sworn duty of those who claim these symbols as sacred.

I often get down to Richmond onto Monument avenue where they've got statues of Lee, George Washington, Jeff Davis, Matthew Maury, and ARTHUR ASHE. Wonder how these statues will be handled??



layman
 
  -4  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 11:05 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

I often get down to Richmond onto Monument avenue where they've got statues of Lee, George Washington, Jeff Davis, Matthew Maury, and ARTHUR ASHE. Wonder how these statues will be handled??


Heh, Arthur Ashe, eh? Robert E. Lee was a noble, courageous man, an able general and a strong leader.

Leave it to a full-blown cheese-eater to claim that Lee is not worthy of a statue, but Arthur Ashe is, eh?

Cheese-eaters always HATE powerful, competent men, and will go to any lengths to try to disparage and demean them. They can't be happy unless they can think everyone is as mediocre as they are.

Jonathan Swift wrote:
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
farmerman
 
  3  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 11:16 pm
@layman,
Quote:
Leave it to a full-blown cheese-eater to claim that Lee is not worthy of a statue, but Arthur Ashe is, eh?

keep working on your reading comp skills.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -2  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 11:21 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
The claim that these public chochkies represent "SOuthern heritage" is an unfortunate linkage especially when that heritage is heavily based upon an assumption that the institution of slavery was a sworn duty of those who claim these symbols as sacred.


Wasn't modern slavery the law of the land during that time? what I mean is that racism was extreme, alive and more proactive than what it is today.

For a more in-depth understanding watch the documentary called the 13th.
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 11:24 pm
The cheese-eating politicians in Virginia, all of whom will try to tell you that they support the First Amendment if you ask them, refused to give a permit to the protesters objecting to their ideological, wasteful determination to tear down a statue of Robert E. Lee.

They were sued, and the court ordered them to allow the protest demonstration.

****, what now!? We CAN'T let these objectors' voices be heard.

OK, here's what we do:

1. We issue the permit, to show we're law abiding, but....
2. We bus in, from all over the country, violence advocating thugs whose avowed and explicit agenda is to prevent free speech, by ANY MEANS NECESSARY, OK?
3. Then we have them attack the protesters. Our cops will just sit and watch, while the heavily out-numbered protesters try to defend themselves, because we won't.
4. If our violent crew can't succeed in destroying them, we'll say the situation can't be controlled, declare a State emergency, and then declare the whole demonstration to be an "unlawful assembly," for security reasons, and have the cops force them to leave, before the march ever starts, see!?
5. If anyone objects, we'll just say they were all nazis who have no right to speak anyway. It's, like, hate speach, ya know? Yeah, that's the ticket, sho nuff!
layman
 
  -4  
Sun 13 Aug, 2017 11:32 pm
@layman,
Yeah, RL, here's brief summary, already previously posted:

layman wrote:

Quote:
No Southern State had to "fight" for the right to own slaves. They already had that right. The problem was that their rights were being trampled on by the northern states.


At the end of the civil war, slavery was legal under BOTH the confederate flag AND the stars and stripes. Several slave-holding States actually took up Lincoln on his offer, made in the Emancipation Proclamation, to cease fighting the Union, and, likewise, he made good on his promise to allow them to continue as slave states.

Things changed after that for all states, not just for the confederacy. The confederate flag was no longer "valid" after 1865, but the constitutional right to own slaves was STILL the law of the land, under the American flag.

So why is one a symbol of slavery (and nothing else) and the other not?

That question is not for you, Blicky, because no one expects you to some up with any kind of rational argument about anything. You just blurt out your emotions, assert them as obvious truths which require no rational explanation or justification, and go on your smug, merry way, satisfied that your mere assertion has proven you right.

However, some other cheese-eater may want to take a stab at answering it, eh?
0 Replies
 
 

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