192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
maporsche
 
  7  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 11:51 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maporsche wrote:
What's crazy to consider is that you could pay for every gender reassignment AND all the erectile dysfunction medicines and even all the birth control and breast augmentations people want...for the cost of 1 single F35 plane (out of the 2,700 that the military has plans to buy).
Let our military heroes and patriots have all the boners they want or get rid of the boners they don't want.

I don't care if the money comes from somewhere else, but enough with liberals trying to disarm our soldiers.


Who said that?

My point is that the cost is virtually nothing when you consider the budget of the military.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  -4  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:45 pm
@Lash,
I'm not "pro-gay" or "pro-tran" but neither am I "anti-gay" or "anti-tran" but I don't think it's folly at all.

The military has for quite some time enticed volunteers with the promise of paying for certain benefits (education for example) including medical. It's one of the reasons the pay scale is lower than in private industry.

I don't know if anyone who would join the army to have a mouth full of rotten teeth taken care of but they could.

I'm not informed enough to make an argument based on the extent of medical treatment a transgender person requires. I've seen comments suggesting that it's extensive and others saying it's minimal.

Assuming there isn't extensive post-op medical treatment that seriously limits the ability of the person to serve, once the reassignment surgery is completed I don't see why anyone might have a legitimate issue with the person serving. A person born a biological woman, but who identifies as a man becomes a biological man. Case closed as far as I'm concerned, with the one exception that military standards and requirements not be lowered in the case of a "trans-male" (or "trans-woman" for that matter). I'm happy to consider him a man, but I have a problem if he, in certain ways, wanted to still be treated as a woman.

I realize I'm not as "waked" as some of my more enlightened friends in this forum, but I do see a problem with a enlisted man who identifies as a woman, but who is unwilling to proceed with the surgery being treated like a woman by the military. Blatham may think there is no difference between requiring women to shower with biological men and requiring white women to shower with black women, but I certainly do.



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maporsche
 
  5  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 01:10 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

maporsche wrote:

Many trans individuals have no intention of transitioning either.


Many obese people would prefer not to lose weight. Should the military accept them unconditionally as volunteers?


Nothing about the military is unconditional, except funding t seems. If they otherwise meet the requirements, then yes. Many technically obese people are very fit.
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revelette1
 
  6  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 01:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Blatham may think there is no difference between requiring women to shower with biological men and requiring white women to shower with black women, but I certainly do.



We allow gays in the in the military. One presumes when they are taking a shower with those of the same gender you could potentially run into the same problem you bring up. People should just keep their eyes to themselves and that would solve the whole problem. I thought self discipline was a big thing in the military?
maporsche
 
  5  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 02:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I answered your question.

Yes. If a trans person wants to join the military and can otherwise meet the physical requirements they should be able to join.

If an obese person (5'11" and 230lbs, let's say) can otherwise meet the physical requirements they should be able to join.

Not dodging anything.
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farmerman
 
  5  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 03:09 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
An equation that determines Body Fat percentage is used to determine someones acceptability as a recruit for service. For men under 27 years, the PDF must be between 19 and 26. HOWEVER, the military IS granting many more waivers today with the expected PDF to be between those numbers sometime during a recruits first year.


You can be too fat, skinny short or tall. Physical attributes often determine whether someone is TOO TALL to be a submariner, TOO SHORT, to be a pilot, or TOO OBESE to be a Marine.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 03:42 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

An equation that determines Body Fat percentage is used to determine someones acceptability as a recruit for service. For men under 27 years, the PDF must be between 19 and 26. HOWEVER, the military IS granting many more waivers today with the expected PDF to be between those numbers sometime during a recruits first year.


You can be too fat, skinny short or tall. Physical attributes often determine whether someone is TOO TALL to be a submariner, TOO SHORT, to be a pilot, or TOO OBESE to be a Marine.




Of course. My point is that there are conditions, physical and otherwise that prevent people from being accepted in the military. Clearly it's not every American's right to serve or there would be no restrictions. Whether or not being a transgender is an appropriate restriction is what is being discussed here, but the military does discriminate based on physical, emotional and mental factors, and so refusing to allow transgenders to enlist would not be ipso facto illegal or immoral discrimination.

The primary determination should be whether or not the individual is able to properly serve in the military based on the standards the military has developed.

It's, I suppose, tempting to argue that there are a great many jobs in the military that don't require combat readiness so why can't a morbidly obese recruit sit at a desk all day and process paperwork? Someone has to do it and given the right chair a 500 lb man or woman should be able to do it just fine. However, rightly or wrongly, the military has a basic premise that everyone who serves might at some point be needed in a combat environment and therefore all members need to be in a certain state of readiness. I've no doubt the rules are bent all the time for some people in combat and non-combat roles and probably with officers more than enlisted personnel, but there is no official policy, of which I'm aware, that substantially differentiates in the standards required to be met for combat and non combat roles.

The military has a pretty generous policy in terms of paying for elective procedures and every incentive to keep enlisted men and women healthy, but that doesn't mean it's unreasonable for them to not want to invite people with pre-existing medical conditions that are clearly or very likely to cost them a lot of money treating, and probably limit the ability of the recruit to serve. I don't know this for a fact but I strongly suspect that if someone is unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cancer, but can't afford very expensive and experimental treatment, the military will not accept them in it's ranks, knowing they have cancer, even if they can do a thousand pull-ups, lift 450 lbs over their head and run a sub 4 minute mile on the day they show up at the recruitment station.

This is not to say that transgenderism is the same as cancer, and as I've written, I don't see a problem with transgenders serving under certain conditions and am content with seeing the military pay the cost of those conditions. Again, my point is that no one has a right to join the military and the only pertinent questions should be can the recruit meet the prescribed standards for service and will they create unnecessary difficulties and disruptions. It's not simply a matter of bigotry that some people question whether all transgenders can meet this criteria.
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snood
 
  6  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 04:02 pm
And now, a brief pause to enjoy a humorous quip from the sly wit of Eric Trump:
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13716130_10207055770019741_5767358256169326445_n.jpg?oh=76df4567c18c8529b8764deeb44d68ad&oe=59FB93BA
Yeah. He really said this.
snood
 
  6  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 04:07 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

I can't help but see similarities in the arguments used when there were discussion about letting women in combat.

- They're not mentally stable
- They'll cause a distraction
- Other soldiers will be made uncomfortable
- Their medical needs will cause problems

I guess people don't see how they are similar.


Same thing with allowing blacks to serve.

Don't have the cognitive skills to operate the equipment
Would cause disruption - especially for the Southerners
Are innately cowards who won't stand up to taking fire
Would need special training to do the basics
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glitterbag
 
  5  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 04:38 pm
@layman,
Hmmmmmmmm, doesn't Trump think he's smarter and more savvy than all the nation's intelligence officers? You're right, politicians should be listening to the professionals.
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layman
 
  -3  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 04:40 pm
Quote:
This web-series by the transgender community hopes to bust myths, misconceptions
Ankita ManeckJul, 15 2017 12:11:37 IST

Although many medical institutions have moved away from the view that being transgender is a result of a psychiatric disorder, still, the sigma persists, and some of the most influential medical bibles, including the WHO's International Classification of Diseases (ICD), continue to categorise transgender-ism as a diagnosis of mental disorder.


http://www.firstpost.com/living/aaa-eee-anjali-this-web-series-by-the-transgender-community-hopes-to-bust-myths-misconceptions-3807275.html

When did they make it a law that ya gotta be a homophobic redneck to become a licensed psychologist, I wonder?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  5  
Sat 29 Jul, 2017 04:51 pm
@snood,
Okay, I just found out the site that quote came from is saying it's meant to be a satire, so maybe Eric didn't say it. Would have been funny!
(and it was believable, wasn't it?)
 

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