192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Debra Law
 
  5  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 01:39 pm
@tony5732,
tony5732 wrote:

OK. When did I ever claim Obama failed to condemn ANY murder... do you even read these posts.


Oh yes, I read the posts on this thread. And when you ask for an example and examples are given, you claim the examples don't count. Obama does condemn violence and has done so publicly on numerous occasions. But, you would rather not be bothered with the facts because facts disprove the portrait you're trying to paint. I see how your arguments morph, how you move your goal posts, how your sands shift.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 01:53 pm
@blatham,
Paul Waldman is a left wing blogger and an opinion writer for the Washington Post and other journals who appears to specialize in commentary on public policy. I'm not aware of any particular credentials, experience, or achievements he has made either in the development of puplic policy himself, or in any of the real world challenges, either domestic and external that face our country now.

His commentary, posted here by Blatham, presumes insights into Trump's mode of thinking that likely have no foundation in fact. Instead they are merely Weldman's guesses based on what he reads in the news. Weldman presumes that "Trump is contemptuous of those with real expertise" and "has a deep distrust of those who have that kind of knowlwdge" (i.e. public policy and its development.) . However he offers no evidence of it, and does not appear to have considered any possible connections with Trump's business experience.

The continuing comedy of the triumphs of the "expertly" developed public policies of the current administration on issues ranging from Health Care to effective economic stimulus with "shovel ready projects" , to investment and job killing over regulation of economic activity, to feoreign relations (the "reset with Russia, the "focus on Asia and the China Sea" and the unfolding catastrophe in the Middle east), doesn't speak well for the "experts" Waldman appears to value so greatly.

Indeed it is fairly clear that the recent election and the rather sweeping Republican victories in the Congress and in state governments represents a substantial rejection of the same "Public policy experts" that Waldman so admires.

My experience in a wide variety of organizations has taught me that strong leaders usually select strong, assertive Deputies, while weak, neurotic leaders usually tolerate only weak. passive deputies who won't challenge them. My impression of Trump's selections so far for his cabinet suggest he may prove to be a strong, confident leader who will challenge his deputies and consider & evaluate their recommendations, while, in stark conrtrast, the current administration appears pathetically weak and passive.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 01:56 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

His commentary, posted here by Blatham, presumes insights into Trump's mode of thinking

My impression of Trump's selections


pretty much even for value eh
tony5732
 
  -3  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 01:59 pm
@Debra Law,
OK. Here is the Obama/ riot discussion I promised.

Here is Obama, defending the message of Black Lives Matter

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L2HQbScS43c

The source is a YouTube video from the associated press. Now this isn't a bad thing, yet. He has not done anything but state his opinion about why he thinks the message is real and what his interpretation of the BLM message. It is important to note many riots we talked about earlier spawn at Black Lives Matter protests, or at least the ones since 2014

OK. Here is a story from the Washington times about Obama and his comments about black lives matter....... During a police memorial.... For 5 white cops who died during a black lives matter protest....... Because they were white.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/12/obama-defends-black-lives-matter-protests-police-m/

And here's the fox story

http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/07/12/obama-defends-black-lives-matter-protests-police-memorial-dallas

And the statements can also be found at CNN

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/07/12/politics/dallas-shooting-obama-george-w-bush/index.html

Now this was at a memorial for 5 dead police officers. The officers were watching over a black lives matter protest. I think it's not only bad taste but horrible HORRIBLE timing.

If you would call this a plan to end the rioting it was an extremely ineffective tactic. There was a RIOT the very next month. Then there was ANOTHER riot the month after that. He spoke at the memorial in July 2016 you can check out the Wikipedia link I already gave you for the dates of the next two riots.

Now this is my opinion, the source is me. Obama gave 0 craps about the riots, because many of the riots since 2014 spawned from BLM protests. That's what he chose to talk about and defend at the dead police officers memorial.

Here's what Obama said about the victims of the riots.













I'll leave this blank for you Deborah law. You joined that one late and obviously have no idea what was going on
georgeob1
 
  0  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 02:08 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:


Oh yes, I read the posts on this thread. And when you ask for an example and examples are given, you claim the examples don't count. Obama does condemn violence and has done so publicly on numerous occasions. But, you would rather not be bothered with the facts because facts disprove the portrait you're trying to paint. I see how your arguments morph, how you move your goal posts, how your sands shift.

Obama was hightly outsopken on the issue of the police shooting of a black man in Ferguson MO, whom he suspected of hours earlier beating a store owner who caught him shoplifting in his store and, who on being stopped tried to grab the officer's weapon. Indeed The President behaved this way on several such issues, large and small throughout his two terms, and through his Justice Department, consistently applied the questionable theory that any statistical concentration of judicial or enforcement actions in any Black community was confirmation of the existence of racial bias in the police organizations involved in their systematic imposing of "consent" agreements on police departments across the country.

Obama strangely made no condemnation or statements at all over the assanations of Police officers in Dallas, New York and other cities in oither well publicized cases.

One in authority can communicate through both public statements some situations and the rather stunning absence of them in others.

Debra evades this rather obvious truth.
tony5732
 
  -3  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 02:10 pm
@tony5732,
This was the EXACT post on posted to blatham. except the bottom. I addressed it to you because you like joining conversations and putting words in my mouth.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  3  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 02:11 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

tony5732 wrote:

OK. When did I ever claim Obama failed to condemn ANY murder... do you even read these posts.


Oh yes, I read the posts on this thread. And when you ask for an example and examples are given, you claim the examples don't count. Obama does condemn violence and has done so publicly on numerous occasions. But, you would rather not be bothered with the facts because facts disprove the portrait you're trying to paint. I see how your arguments morph, how you move your goal posts, how your sands shift.


So here, we'll try again:

tony5732 wrote:
Can YOU tell me one thing Obama said to riot victims, or about riot victims? I guess Blatham decided to ignore which was probably the right move for him.


http://able2know.org/topic/355218-116#post-6325126

Taking into consideration that you include incidents of civil unrest in your definition of "riot" (as demonstrated by your reliance on Wikipedia's list of incidents of civil unrest), here is an example of Obama's condemnation of violence directed at Trump supporters:

Quote:
Anti-Trump protests in San Jose turned violent against his supporters, with protesters throwing punches and harassing Trump fans. 

"We saw in San Jose these protesters starting to pelt stuff [at] Trump supporters. That's not what our democracy is about," Obama said. "That's not what you do. There's no room for violence. There's no place for shouting. There's no room for a politics that fails to at least listen to the other side — even if you vehemently disagree. Because I believe if you've got the better argument, then you don't need to do that. Just go out there and organize and persuade."


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/282199-obama-on-anti-trump-violence-thats-not-what-our-democracy-is

Tony, you have not persuaded me that Obama has remained silent in the face of violence. Are you going to change your argument again?



georgeob1
 
  -3  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 02:20 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Hamlet even. My goodness. How's chances we might get a Coriolanus reference re Trump?


That was a good one !

My answer is that is a possibility, but we shall have to await the unfolding facts. I can't predict the future and neither can you or the bloggers you consult so assiduously.

I do believe we have zigged rather far to the sappy, overcontrolled, banal world of the progressive left and have a good bit of room to zag right before any harm is done.
0 Replies
 
tony5732
 
  -3  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 02:31 pm
@Debra Law,
That's Obama saying a bunch of stuff about people throwing stuff at a Trump rally. What has he said about RIOT VICTIMS? Yes, victims of riots. People who were in the location of actual RIOTS, and got robbed, beat, or perhaps happened to be in a gas station while it was lit on fire, during a riot.

I accepted the point that he has said SOMETHING when Cicero pointed it out to me.

My counterpoint to that is that actual victims were not mentioned and it was just used as ANOTHER opportunity for a BLM speech.

But yes, Obama said there was no excuse for rioting. If that's seriously all you got, than we are on the same page.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 02:33 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

My experience in a wide variety of organizations has taught me that strong leaders usually select strong, assertive Deputies, while weak, neurotic leaders usually tolerate only weak. passive deputies who won't challenge them. My impression of Trump's selections so far for his cabinet suggest he may prove to be a strong, confident leader who will challenge his deputies and consider & evaluate their recommendations, while, in stark contrast, the current administration appears pathetically weak and passive.



I think this truly sums up the differences quite well.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  3  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 02:43 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Debra Law wrote:


Oh yes, I read the posts on this thread. And when you ask for an example and examples are given, you claim the examples don't count. Obama does condemn violence and has done so publicly on numerous occasions. But, you would rather not be bothered with the facts because facts disprove the portrait you're trying to paint. I see how your arguments morph, how you move your goal posts, how your sands shift.

Obama was hightly outsopken on the issue of the police shooting of a black man in Ferguson MO, whom he suspected of hours earlier beating a store owner who caught him shoplifting in his store and, who on being stopped tried to grab the officer's weapon. Indeed The President behaved this way on several such issues, large and small throughout his two terms, and through his Justice Department, consistently applied the questionable theory that any statistical concentration of judicial or enforcement actions in any Black community was confirmation of the existence of racial bias in the police organizations involved in their systematic imposing of "consent" agreements on police departments across the country.

Obama strangely made no condemnation or statements at all over the assanations of Police officers in Dallas, New York and other cities in oither well publicized cases.

One in authority can communicate through both public statements some situations and the rather stunning absence of them in others.

Debra evades this rather obvious truth.


Your allegation was refuted in this post:

http://able2know.org/topic/355218-119#post-6325665

Who among us is evading the truth? Well, that's you.


0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  2  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 03:00 pm
@tony5732,
tony5732 wrote:

That's Obama saying a bunch of stuff about people throwing stuff at a Trump rally. What has he said about RIOT VICTIMS? Yes, victims of riots. People who were in the location of actual RIOTS, and got robbed, beat, or perhaps happened to be in a gas station while it was lit on fire, during a riot.

I accepted the point that he has said SOMETHING when Cicero pointed it out to me.

My counterpoint to that is that actual victims were not mentioned and it was just used as ANOTHER opportunity for a BLM speech.

But yes, Obama said there was no excuse for rioting. If that's seriously all you got, than we are on the same page.


Backtrack, re-define the word "riot" because your prior definition of "riot" does not serve your present purposes (with your past purpose to exaggerate the number of riots over the last 8 years), equivocate, and pretend you made a point that somehow flew over my head. The list of your fallacious arguments is growing much like Pinocchio's nose under similar circumstances.

tony5732
 
  -2  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 03:00 pm
OK EVERYONE, Obama condemned the police killings in dallas!!! That was NEVER what that conversation was supposed to be about. No argument, Obama spoke up for dead dallas cops. That's a fact.

I personally was talking about the fact that he threw in a black lives matter speech at the memorial and after what happened that was not the time for it. I noted there was two riots that followed, one the next month, and the month after.
Frugal1
 
  -2  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 03:08 pm
0bama supported & encouraged the terrorist group calling themselves BLM...
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 03:19 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Widespread hacking by Russia and China has been going on for a long time and our hapless president & his inept Administration have until now done and even said nothing about it.

Completely false. If that matters to you.
Quote:
The United States stepped up its focus on cyber warfare in 2010 when US Cyber Command brought together the cyber capabilities of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines under one roof. Billions of dollars have been dedicated to the project. Two years ago the Pentagon announced a massive expansion of its cyber capabilities, upping staff from 1,800 personnel in 2014 to 6,000 in 2016.
LINK
Frugal1
 
  0  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 03:22 pm
That womanizing racists has appointed another person to his presidential transition team.
http://cdn.washingtonexaminer.biz/cache/730x420-93e9353dfc9e193e9a31744733adb409.jpg
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2609765/
Debra Law
 
  2  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 03:24 pm
@tony5732,
tony5732 wrote:

OK EVERYONE, Obama condemned the police killings in dallas!!! That was NEVER what that conversation was supposed to be about. No argument, Obama spoke up for dead dallas cops. That's a fact.

I personally was talking about the fact that he threw in a black lives matter speech at the memorial and after what happened that was not the time for it. I noted there was two riots that followed, one the next month, and the month after.


Yes. I see you transformed your argument once again. Your grievance is no longer that far more "riots" occurred on Obama's watch than on Bush's watch. (And the definition of "riot" changes and may or may not include instances of civil unrest depending what definition is most advantageous to you at any given moment.) Your grievance is no longer about Obama's alleged failure to condemn violence committed against "riot victims" ... and so forth. Your grievance is now Obama's alleged inappropriate remarks at a memorial service. Thanks for the update.
tony5732
 
  -1  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 03:30 pm
@Debra Law,
Any declared riot as seen on Wikipedia. Bp gas station fire, what did Obama say about that?
0 Replies
 
tony5732
 
  -1  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 03:33 pm
@Debra Law,
No, still the same argument, Obama didn't do anything to stop riots, had twice the amount of riots as bush while in office, and didn't say anything about riot victims. The dallas memorial BLM speech was simply part of the argument.
0 Replies
 
tony5732
 
  0  
Mon 19 Dec, 2016 03:37 pm
@Frugal1,
Trump can do anything right now and it would be considered the wrong thing by most liberals.
 

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