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monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
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ossobucotemp
 
  0  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 01:15 pm
@Olivier5,
I agree with you (what a surprise).

I shillyshallied over my vote, early and for a fairly long time for Sanders, who is much more like me, but on a lot of thought changed to the woman I didn't like but thought could win, didn't hate. Boy, was I daft, or what? I suppose conflicted.

I was politically active in California for a lot of reasons, and I started at that quite early, as our neighborhood association in Venice CA met in the school right across the street from our house, and lots of people showed up, over lots of years. My husband was quickly involved, me too. One woman, formerly a republican who switched sides for social issues became first our assembly woman and then state senator and then secretary of state for California; when I moved north by myself, my business partner and I were pals with a feisty woman who triggered a fight against Walmart taking the best property in the city for its new store. That was at the land corner with the best view of Humboldt Bay...
We won.
ex Business partner's daughter is now a longtimer on a particular city's City Council.

Let's say I grew into adulthood with political will going on.
I was never much of a marcher, usually being at work, but was a one-day Woman in Black, with truckers tooting as they raced by. Well, not all of them.

Now I'm cranky for a variety of reasons and old and out of it in a new to me US state. I don't hate it, but I don't love it.
Time for the kids....

Meantime, I just checked out the newspaper Alibi here in Albuquerque, and it seems a 23 yr old is running for mayor, the vote coming in early in this next October. He sounds like I guy I may vote for.
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Debra Law
 
  6  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 01:16 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

Regardless of MSM and bigwigs in the DNC thinking Hillary was a shoo in, she would have been a very good president, not this total disaster you guys going on now with the republican congress and Trump. But Americans voted for these "leaders"; we deserve what we got.

And yes, Oliver, she would have been worlds better than Bernie Sanders.


Yes, if Hillary was president, all the swampy nefarious crap would proceed behind closed doors and life would go on as we blissfully wear our blinders. Alas, that didn't happen and we can now see the ugliness.
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Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 01:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
What's so revolting about Moore?
revelette1
 
  2  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 01:30 pm
@Debra Law,
Well, I have never thought she was nefarious, so I don't think any of it would have went on behind closed doors. I suppose there is a irreconcilable difference and the democrat party will be split. Hopefully, not in the same ticket.
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Debra Law
 
  3  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 01:49 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

So who were all those who voted for [Hillary] in the popular vote if not leftist voters?


I said this:
Quote:
The Democratic Party doesn't represent the "left" and is undeserving of electoral support from the left.


I didn't say people who lean left did not vote for Hillary; I said the Democratic Party is undeserving of electoral support from the left.

That said, I have no doubt that many people who voted for Hillary did so because they perceived her, right or wrong, as the lesser evil. Many held their noses (in the figurative sense) when they cast their votes. And I have no doubt that many genuinely liked her.

You didn't respond to the assertion that the Democratic Party doesn't represent the left. Follow the money and you will discover who (and what) the Democratic Party does represent. (Hint: It's not you and me.)

Quote:
Her popular votes were more than Obama's 2012.


So what? Her popular votes were less than Obama's 2008.

How many people were eligible to vote, but didn't vote? That's the question.


revelette1 wrote:
If "leftist" don't want to join the DNC, have their own party. I am betting the DNC will survive.


And your preferred solution is to move the party further to the right by recruiting Republicans to abandon their party and join yours. Good luck.
layman
 
  -4  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 01:57 pm
The leftys don't need a new party. The Communist Party is currently taking enrollment applications. They still run a candidate every election year, don't they?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 02:09 pm
Encouraging news!

New Survey: 6 in 10 Democrats Considering Third Party Options

https://ivn.us/2017/06/21/new-survey-6-10-democrats-considering-third-party-option/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_campaign=d74ab93753-ivn_newsletter_6_22_2017&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_24d080cf45-d74ab93753-77965981&mc_cid=d74ab93753&mc_eid=963d6f8e1d

It would be brightly wrapped gift for Trump, or whomever is the GOP candidate in 2020, if this has legs.

It will also almost assure a Republican president for 2024 and maybe beyond.

I don't believe we will have a political system that has more than two parties of significance for much longer than a decade. It's certainly possible that a new party capable of capturing a whole lot of votes may be formed, but I'm fairly certain that it would form from disaffected members of only one of the two main parties today, and that continued success for it would mean replacing the one from which it was originally formed.

Of course "considering" Third Party Options is something quite different than "planning on joining a Third Party" and even then, when the rubber met the road, a goodly number of the folks who responded in the affirmative would find one or more reasons to change their minds.

"Considering" a third party option is about as bankable a commitment as a smoker saying he's thinking about quitting.

It does though suggest a pretty high level, among the rank & file, of dissatisfaction with the Democrat Party. Big and disappointing losses followed by a series of small and disappointing losses have a way of taking the starch out of partisans. It's in keeping with tribal behavior as well. Nothing guarantees the challenge and replacement of a tribal chieftain like a series of defeats at the hands of a rival tribe, and if the tribes confidence is shaken up enough, the entire band will often splinter and break apart.

It's tough to imagine a 3rd Party being formed from the so-called moderates of each party. They might be united around a desire to see a greater spirit of civility and compromise in a government that actually gets more done than constant fighting, but significant ideological differences remain between the two parties, and there isn't always a middle ground to arrive at. What would the party do in terms of these differences? Have the two factions take turns getting their way?

It's far more likely that a 3rd Party would form around a large splinter group from one of the two major parties and attract some defectors, but not a great many, from the other.

Ross Perot's Reform Party, was formed with the intent to draw equally from both parties (Over the years they have run POTUS candidate as distinct from one another as Pat Buchanan (2000) and Ralph Nader (2004)) but in reality it is more a Rent-A-Party operation than a vehicle for any defining set of principles, let alone a home for "moderates" from both sides of the aisle. An individual with reason and desire to run for POTUS (but no expectation of winning) and who has in-place material monetary backing and a fairly well organized pre-existing and independent political operation connects with the Reform Party and basically takes it over for an election cycle, benefiting from the parties existing licenses, charters, administrative resources, and such.

When Perot founded it and ran for POTUS as its candidate, there was a lot of speculation that he would be getting support and votes from disaffected members of both the Republican and Democrat parties, but, in reality, he drew mainly votes that would have otherwise gone to the GOP candidate, President George H. W. Bush. As a result, Bill Clinton was able to win with a plurality, but not a majority of the popular vote.

If not for Jughead Perot, we more than likely would never have heard of Whitewater, TravelGate Paula Jones, and Monica Lewinsky and never have seen a trivia quiz that asked what the connection was between cigars, stained blue dresses and the Oval Office. There is also an excellent possibility that we would have had only one President to have been impeached, HRC would never have even run once (and lost) for POTUS, and J. Christopher Stevens, Vince Foster and Seth Rich would still be alive today not serious! not serious!

The Reform Party neither established itself as viable alternative to the GOP or Democrat Party, nor replaced either one but it was intimately connected to the strange little billionaire from Texas who refrigerated a chunk of human flesh his guard dogs tore off the ass of an intruder who was part of a group of Black Panthers that invaded his ranch on the orders of the North Vietnamese government (and you think Trump tells bizarre tales!) who played a very pivotal role in American history.

Bernie Sanders or a far-left Democrat running for POTUS under the banner of a new or existing third party may not produce the long ranging impact on the US that Perot did, but he or she will guarantee four more years of a Republican president.






Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 02:33 pm
@Olivier5,
Aside from his political views and his insistence on distorting the truth in his "documentaries?"



https://i.redd.it/k4w22gcmd84y.jpg


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTmQiDroe57aXReL205Gc9bWZgTt-aH-3tfybolgWLcFf1gQdix






http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/article_images/mooremichael_111316getty.jpg



http://cdns.yournewswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Michael-moore-trump-russian.jpg


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/f0/10/f8/f010f88cd905780d01a36bc5bafcbe73.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k188/maibockaddict/michael_moore03.jpg
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ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 02:43 pm
@Debra Law,
I've no idea how to kick up the dem party. I've always been more local re contacts, etc.: don't know national party workings.

I'm mixed - am for dumping the apparatus but keeping the people who call themselves democrats. A whole new party?

Maybe I could go for it, but think of multiplied skirmishes happening up the wazoo even to set it up.

In case anyone doesn't know, I'm a lefty.
maporsche
 
  5  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 02:46 pm
@Debra Law,
Honest question, from you or Lash or whomever.

What does the Bernie Sanders party look like and how does it differ from the DNC?

I'm not looking for "it looks out for the little people" or "anti-corporate elite". I'm looking for actual differences, not vague statements.
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revelette1
 
  4  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 02:58 pm
@Debra Law,
Quote:
And your preferred solution is to move the party further to the right by recruiting Republicans to abandon their party and join yours. Good luck.


Actually I never said to move the party to the right to recruit unhappy republicans. What I said was maybe there are moderate republicans who are unhappy in the direction their party has went these fifteen or so years and maybe they would find some common ground with democrats. Many of those went to Trump because he talked about free trade and made out like he was going to make a better health care program than Obamacare. I imagine many of those are going to be very disappointed when he doesn't come through. We (democrats) might have a chance at them. Might not.

I didn't respond to your assertion because I really don't want to get into what represents a lefty and what doesn't. You and Lash and others seem to think that because fossil donors or some such have given money to democrats that means democrats will abandon clean energy when that hasn't proven to be the case. (Besides I think Bernie had donors from the fossil industries, just not as much.) I always thought I was a lefty, but perhaps I am more of centrist.
maporsche
 
  4  
Thu 22 Jun, 2017 03:09 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Tank you for so quickly and deftly illustrating my point.


Just when I forget how much I enjoy our little chats George, you're right there to remind me.
0 Replies
 
 

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